Let's discuss Joe Dumars...

[ceiling raiser]

Just a few questions. Caught the tail end of his prime and even though I've watched a good deal of those Bad Boys playoff runs, I feel like I don't know as much as I'd like to about him.

1) How athletic was he when he came into the league? Do we have any numbers for his standing reach/wingspan/height without shoes etc.?

2) Which guys did he defend the best? Who did he struggle to cover?

3) Thoughts on his man defense and help defense in general? How versatile was he defensively?

4) Thoughts in general about Dumars as an offensive player?

[Texas Chuck]

going simply based on my memories of him as a player without going back and watching video or looking up stats:

I thought of him as just a really solid, good at everything, elite at nothing kind of player. My perception was that he was an average athlete, but an incredibly smart player. A border-line all-star, a guy who would fit into just about any team seemlessly. Very unselfish, very well-rounded. Always seemed from afar like the nice guy of the "Bad Boys"

Thought he was a good man defender, can't honestly remember if he struggled with smaller quicker guards, but I felt like he did a good job against the bigger, more physical wings he was asked to check. Don't remember his help defense as being note-worthy, but thought he was a very good man defender.

Good solid offensive player. Certainly not a guy I would want to be the focal point of my offense, but was versatile and very useful.

As far as a comparison today, a better version of Wes Matthews with better playmaking skills.

[ronnymac2]

Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like he took incredibly wide lateral steps. Like one lateral step covered an enormous amount of ground for him. He also seems to have tremendous functional strength. So when guards tried to get around him and put their shoulder into his body/torso, he could take the hit and continue sliding his feet with proper balance. Perhaps why he was able to make Jordan work.

I like him on offense, too. He became an excellent outside shooter, he could be a secondary ball-handler/playmaker, and he moved well without the ball. Portable offensive player. Really a nice player to have no matter what your team situation.

[Warspite]

Very good shooter. Come off screens and attack the paint with very good floater. Quick release.

Dumars rarely was beaten or torched. Great footwork and knew his opponents. One other factor about Dumars is that he is the 4th option until 89. then he becomes the 2nd option overnight with the Dantley trade. For the most part teams still treated him as a 4th option and the Lakers/Blazers/Bulls often time put bad defenders on him (Magic/Dragic/Paxson) and he would torch them.

Coach Daley liked to rotate defenders on the elite scorers of the day. Dumars and Rodman would rotate much like in the NFL with 2 Running backs.

I would say that Dumars played more than half his mins running the offense and being the PG. Isiah liked playing off the ball and Microwave was there to score.

Dumars didnt get steals or blocks but he was a great defender. His job was to steer guards into the defense and he did that very well. The pistons guards didnt collapse on dribble drive. If they trapped they liked using Salley and Rodman with Isiah. Joe would be playing the weak side to rotate.

Of course Isiah was no slouch on defense either and the SGs of that era were not big scorers (The SFs were the elite scorers of that era) Pistons in many ways were the inventors of most of the offense of today with the pick and pop and the screens that are used to free up players.

Outside of Moncrief/Robertson Joe is maybe the best def SG I have seen (not counting MJ).

His best scoring game I ever saw was a game vs Run TMC. Isiah was out and Joe torched them for 44pts? I believe. Very streaky shooter.