Retool the team, re-load in 2015, rejuvenate

No-Man · Post #1 » by **No-Man** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:21 pm

The Pacers are in for a bad-mediocre season, it makes no sense to keep some assets that are clearly done for in Indianapolis.

Roy Hibbert is mediocre and is in for two more years, unless he rebounds and decides to go in the open market, where you'd have to roll the dice on him or let him go.
West is a solid pro but his time is over, he has two more seasons as well.
George Hill is not good enough as a PG.

I say deal all of them, retool the team, not tank but play new young guys while trying to stay competitive, pick the best guy possible in the Draft and when PG13 gets back, plus whatever you got off this season, you have that plus capspace to go after some new pieces.

3 possible deals,

West for Zeller and Henderson,
George Hill+Lavoy Allen for Derrick Williams and Ray McCallum
Hibbert+Sloan for Nash, Sacre, Clarkson and Houston 2015 1st round pick

Nash buy-out/retires

McCallum-Watson-Clarkson
Stuckey-Henderson-Miles
George-Hill-Rudez
Williams-Scola-Copeland
Zeller-Mahinmi-Sacre

Plus two first in 2015 and aroun 27m$ in capspace next summer.

Wizop · Post #2 » by **Wizop** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:31 pm

no hurry. we can review the situation in February. a lot depends upon Hibbert. he has to know he fell apart in mid-season. he has a tendency to over think things. you won't be able to trade him for anyone better than Roy when he is playing well.

now West and Scola are another matter. it is easy to argue that they won't have enough left in the tank after PG returns. but is there value highest now or at the deadline when teams might think they are the missing piece to push them over the top? I see no harm in waiting.

EuroPacer · Post #3 » by **EuroPacer** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:29 pm

I agree Wizop, let's just see where things develop towards. Hibbert and West can be on the block for teams that all of a sudden realise they need a retool to make a genuine push. As such I can see teams like the GSW, Clippers and even Charlotte, Wizards and Suns in the fray come February.

Post #4 » by **pacers33granger** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:13 am

If we trade our guys, we certainly won't trade all of them and even if we did, we would certainly get back more than a bunch of junk and a mid to late first. Zeller/McCallum are the only young guys in those deals with any sort of value and it's pretty low.

Post #5 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:28 pm

Ya know, if Hibbert is mediocre, West is too old, and Hill is no good, why on earth would any of those teams do those deals?

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Moooose · Post #6 » by **Moooose** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:06 am

For sure Larry has some plans in his mind and could be looking at all possibilities but I don't see him rushing things up. I agree with the replies above, I think this season is more likely a "try-out", and Larry will look to plan carefully.
I would like the Pacers to land in the lottery this year though, and possibly acquire more high picks in the future years.

Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:11 pm

Moooose wrote:For sure Larry has some plans in his mind and could be looking at all possibilities but I don't see him rushing things up. I agree with the replies above, I think this season is more likely a "try-out", and Larry will look to plan carefully.
I would like the Pacers to land in the lottery this year though, and possibly acquire more high picks in the future years.

I'd say we're going to know exactly what we have in Solo Hill after this year, and also Lavoy Allen and Damjan Rudez. Heck, Allen could turn out to be a prime backup 4/5 for us, and could get us to either move Mahinmi and keep Allen as the backup, or move Hibbert for a project 5, and platoon all 3 together.

EuroPacer · Post #8 » by **EuroPacer** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:59 pm

I think Allen is a guy that a lot of us are sleeping on, me included to a degree. I have a sadist streak so I watched quite a bit of the Sixers early last season (they had a great start to the season) and he can play. He has energy, is a physical defender and not afraid to bang down low and on top of that he is a solid rebounder. He is young, has stayed relatively healthy at the Sixers and his college career, route into the NBA proves that he is a worker - all attributes I love seeing in a Pacer.

Post #9 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:19 am

EuroPacer wrote:I think Allen is a guy that a lot of us are sleeping on, me included to a degree. I have a sadist streak so I watched quite a bit of the Sixers early last season (they had a great start to the season) and he can play. He has energy, is a physical defender and not afraid to bang down low and on top of that he is a solid rebounder. He is young, has stayed relatively healthy at the Sixers and his college career, route into the NBA proves that he is a worker - all attributes I love seeing in a Pacer.

I'd like to say I was pretty high on Lavoy when the trade was made. I may have even called him the secret key to the deal.

EuroPacer · Post #10 » by **EuroPacer** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:09 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
EuroPacer wrote:I think Allen is a guy that a lot of us are sleeping on, me included to a degree. I have a sadist streak so I watched quite a bit of the Sixers early last season (they had a great start to the season) and he can play. He has energy, is a physical defender and not afraid to bang down low and on top of that he is a solid rebounder. He is young, has stayed relatively healthy at the Sixers and his college career, route into the NBA proves that he is a worker - all attributes I love seeing in a Pacer.

I'd like to say I was pretty high on Lavoy when the trade was made. I may have even called him the secret key to the deal.

I certainly think none of us were unhappy when he came in. Let's hope he gets West's slot over Scola, although I suppose Scola is a better offensive player and we have a large need for that.

Post #11 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:52 pm

EuroPacer wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
EuroPacer wrote:I think Allen is a guy that a lot of us are sleeping on, me included to a degree. I have a sadist streak so I watched quite a bit of the Sixers early last season (they had a great start to the season) and he can play. He has energy, is a physical defender and not afraid to bang down low and on top of that he is a solid rebounder. He is young, has stayed relatively healthy at the Sixers and his college career, route into the NBA proves that he is a worker - all attributes I love seeing in a Pacer.

I'd like to say I was pretty high on Lavoy when the trade was made. I may have even called him the secret key to the deal.

I certainly think none of us were unhappy when he came in. Let's hope he gets West's slot over Scola, although I suppose Scola is a better offensive player and we have a large need for that.

It'd make some sense, but I think Scola at least imitates some of West's style. Allen really needs to be much closer inside. Plus, until Mahinmi proves his shoulder is really healthy, I think we just need to keep Allen as the possible backup for Roy, too.

It'd be great to see him get a shot, though. I'd really just love to see what we have in him, Whittington, Solo, Cope, Sloan, and Rudez. See what's worth keeping and what needs to be jettisoned.

basketballwacko2 · Post #12 » by **basketballwacko2** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:36 pm

I don't like the deals in the OP. So we trade for Nash then pay him to leave? No thanks. I'm in agreement with the other pacer posters here, we wait and see what we're getting out of Hibbert. I think Scola might get traded for a Point Guard or combo guard type. With his $1.9 million guaranteed I can see a team that is over the tax line sending us a guy for him and then cutting him.

Clippers are over the tax, Jamal Crawford for Scola. That gets them under the tax if they cut him and we get a pretty good player. I can see a deal for Hibbert if we are stinking it up in Jan but we'll have to wait and see.

Post #13 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:45 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:I don't like the deals in the OP. So we trade for Nash then pay him to leave? No thanks. I'm in agreement with the other pacer posters here, we wait and see what we're getting out of Hibbert. I think Scola might get traded for a Point Guard or combo guard type. With his $1.9 million guaranteed I can see a team that is over the tax line sending us a guy for him and then cutting him.

Clippers are over the tax, Jamal Crawford for Scola. That gets them under the tax if they cut him and we get a pretty good player. I can see a deal for Hibbert if we are stinking it up in Jan but we'll have to wait and see.

I think the Clippers, and new owner Steve Ballmer, as championship contenders are highly unlikely to dump a serious rotation player like Crawford for Scola, just to waive Scola.

I'd imagine that teams that realize they aren't going super far, but are in the luxury tax, or borderline, would be more likely. Maybe the Knicks or Brooklyn, repeat payers that would be happy to cut an extra $3m or so (where tax payments mean it would actually be saving more like $10-15m).