How long will Kroenke stay with a clueless Shaw?

[JerrySloan]

I don't know if Cousins actually did say, "Are you kidding me?" to Shaw, but I certainly will say it.

Absolutely nothing has changed from the start of last season with Shaw's "method" of determining a rotation.
What IS different is that the team has made Faried their highest paid player and traded Fournier, who within another year will be a better offensive player than Afflalo who was gotten to be the solution at starting SG.

So what do we get?

Faried 21 minutes
AA 22 minutes

And, oh yeah, let's play all 3 centers, but only 11 minutes for starter Mozgov and 13 each for McGee and Nurkic and 11 minutes without any of them in a game that sometime center HIckson isn't playing either.

And none of these choices had anything to do with foul trouble. It's just Shaw grasping at straws trying to find someone who really wants to play for him.

While I have no problem laying a good deal of the blame on the players, it is obvious Shaw is not a coach that is going to get this team on his side. I really hope that Kroenke - either Josh or if Silent Stan is the one who has to make the call - does not decide to blow the whole season by not admitting that hiring Shaw was a mistake.

[The Rebel]

I do not know, right now I see a team full of guys with bad body language, a lack of effort, a terrible offense, a below average defense, guys not being put into a position to succeed, and no reasonable expectation that this team will get better under Shaw. If he has not lost the team totally, he is close and will soon without a big change, especially with rumors that Afflalo of all people had to be held back from Shaw last night.

You know I was thinking this morning about how bad Shaw is at using his guy's talents, so I looked up Fournier, a guy we were all very high on last year heading into the season and watched him collapse last year. Now he is putting up 14.6 ppg on .593 TS%. Last year he put up 8.4 ppg on .533 TS%, his rookie year he put up 5.3 ppg on .597 TS%. His assists to turnover is still not great, and reading up on him he still has a ways to go on defense, but it is striking to me how much worse he was under Shaw than he has been under Karl and Jacque Vaughn (another coach that is looked at as below average)

[StunnaStan]

Brian Shaw likes to use the full 24 second shot clock to find the best possible shot. problem is even if you find lawson or faried or affalo after 16-18 seconds of swinging/moving the ball, its still only lawson, faried or afflalo shooting the ball. None of the 3 mentioned (or anyone on this roster for the matter) are threats to score the ball on a play to play basis.

i knew shaw was sus when he started anthony randolph at the 3 and had him chucking 3's last year

[The Rebel]

Using the full 24 second shot clock is a big problem when you do not have a superstar 1 on 1 player, it is to easy for the defense to set up and take away the perimeter and the paint, which is another reason this team shoots so many long 2s. Most NBA defenses are set up to allow teams to get that shot.

I find it sad that the only really good quarters I have seen was the 4th quarter in the game before last, and the 2nd quarter last night, you know when the Nuggets were down and Shaw got out of the way and let them run and be aggressive.

[cold_cowboy]

at this point, i wouldn't mind karl back. don't even care about the first round exits, i just want us to be relevant again. and maybe who knows, miracles can happen and karl could figure some things out for the playoffs.

[tstrick33]

As Aaron Rodgers said "R E L A X". We're three games into this thing and this is the first time we have had a full lineup in over a year.

We all knew the first few weeks were going to be a struggle because the chemistry was not going to be there and rotations aren't set.

Kroenke has stated this year will be an evaluating year. If we don't make the playoffs he's going to blow this thing up. There is a ZERO percent chance Shaw gets fired this year.

[The Rebel]

As Aaron Rodgers said "R E L A X". We're three games into this thing and this is the first time we have had a full lineup in over a year.

We all knew the first few weeks were going to be a struggle because the chemistry was not going to be there and rotations aren't set.

Kroenke has stated this year will be an evaluating year. If we don't make the playoffs he's going to blow this thing up. There is a ZERO percent chance Shaw gets fired this year.

We are 4 games into the season, and if Shaw is not fired I can see a player revolt happening soon, and judging by the way my phone has been ringing with ticket sales people the fans are already revolting.

Also the problems are not chemistry, and while the rotations suck, the biggest problem is lack of effort and lack of a decent offense or defense.

Besides that who would relax at the idea of blowing the team up when you have a guy like TC in charge, the guy who traded Koufos for Arthur, handed Hickson that contract, and just spent last offseason signing a ton of Small forwards while ignoring the fact that the Nuggets do not have a backup PG on the roster (I realize that Robinson and Green both play PG but neither of them are PGs). This whole mess is on the verge of being 1991 to me, a bad GM, terrible coach, and a team wishing and hoping to get the right draft pick to become relevant.

[JerrySloan]

So what is the betting on whether the billionaire or his supposedly in charge son have the capability of acknowledging that hiring Shaw was a mistake and dump him soon. I'm betting they won't and am happy that I haven't wasted any bucks on Nugz tickets this year.

But, just for speculation, who is currently available that anyone would want? And don't say Karl because, even though I would prefer him to Shaw, there is zero chance of the Kroenke's re-hiring him.

[eathb_au]

There is no point in getting rid of Shaw until the end of the season. It could really be time to properly rebuild this team and at this point, Shaw will get us a terrible record.

[josh_nuggets]

What prospect do u think fits best?

[JerrySloan]

There is no point in getting rid of Shaw until the end of the season. It could really be time to properly rebuild this team and at this point, Shaw will get us a terrible record.

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

I have no respect for the tanker mentality.

It MAY be that there is not a particularly suitable candidate available and I'm not aware of any of Shaw's assistants that would suit the bill.

[Powder Blue]

First off I'm not ready to proclaim Fournier a future All-Star because he's getting a bunch of minutes on a bad/gutted magic squad. I'm happy that's he's getting his shot though, that would never happen here with this roster.

I have been in Shaw's corner side he was hired.....but the "offense" I've seen thus far is garbage. Zero ball movement and no off ball screens. Dump it in the post and either have a lackluster post player take the shot or kick it out and let one of our wings go one-on-one. It's embarrassing.

Rebel ur right the only good Q's are when Shaw lets them/the players open it up. I don't want Karl back but I certainly don't want this trash either. Players and coaches are all to blame for this mess, not sure what the solution is or how it will play out.

[JerrySloan]

First off I'm not ready to proclaim Fournier a future All-Star because he's getting a bunch of minutes on a bad/gutted magic squad. I'm happy that's he's getting his shot though, that would never happen here with this roster

Neither Rebel nor I said anything about Fournier being a future All-Star. I said that I believe he will be a better offensive player than AA in a year or so.

While it was reasonable being a Shaw supporter at his hiring, it is far from logical to continue to do so.

[The Rebel]

There is no point in getting rid of Shaw until the end of the season. It could really be time to properly rebuild this team and at this point, Shaw will get us a terrible record.

I am fine with blowing up the team and rebuilding, after what we see what we have with this team. To find out what this team can actually do you have to put them in a position to succeed, Shaw has shown he cannot do that so he should be fired. Give this team a chance with everybody available and let's find out how good it is, before we trade it all for draft picks and a 10 year rebuild, especially since I do not trust TC to do the rebuild.

First off I'm not ready to proclaim Fournier a future All-Star because he's getting a bunch of minutes on a bad/gutted magic squad. I'm happy that's he's getting his shot though, that would never happen here with this roster.

I did not bring up Fournier to say that he is a future all star, I brought him up to show the difference coaching has made in his game. His rookie year he was extremely efficient, this year he has been extremely efficient, last year he was bad. It is common sense that Fournier did not lose all his skills for exactly 1 season and then got them back, so what happened?

Also you talk about a bad Magic team, so far this year the Nuggets have not really been any better.

I have been in Shaw's corner side he was hired.....but the "offense" I've seen thus far is garbage. Zero ball movement and no off ball screens. Dump it in the post and either have a lackluster post player take the shot or kick it out and let one of our wings go one-on-one. It's embarrassing.

Exactly my point, Shaw is not putting the players in a position to succeed, illustrated by the difference in Fournier under a different coach. Successful coaches put their guys into roles that fit their games, and then help keep them motivated, both of which seem to be weak points for Shaw, making him a bad coach.

Rebel ur right the only good Q's are when Shaw lets them/the players open it up. I don't want Karl back but I certainly don't want this trash either. Players and coaches are all to blame for this mess, not sure what the solution is or how it will play out.

I have never been a huge Karl fan, but Shaw is an idiot. Every game I see makes me wonder why this guy still has his job. I do not know how you can blame the players for this mess, when they are being asked to do things they are not good at, and do not have the talent to overcome those deficiencies. It is like asking an aircraft mechanic to fly the plane, sure he may make it work somewhat, but is not going to be good enough at it to really make it work.

Asking guys like Lawson to walk the ball up the court, pass the ball into the post, and try to be a spot up shooter is dumb, Lawson is not that guy. Asking Mozgov to work the mid post and create the offense out of the post is ridiculous, having everybody shooting mid range jump shots due to not being able to create better shots is a firable offense in my book, but it is not the players fault they are trying to do what they are told.

[Powder Blue]

First off I'm not ready to proclaim Fournier a future All-Star because he's getting a bunch of minutes on a bad/gutted magic squad. I'm happy that's he's getting his shot though, that would never happen here with this roster

Neither Rebel nor I said anything about Fournier being a future All-Star. I said that I believe he will be a better offensive player than AA in a year or so.

While it was reasonable being a Shaw supporter at his hiring, it is far from logical to continue to do so.

I exagerated my Fournier statement...with that maybe his offense will be better than AAA but his D is poor so I can't see him being a better player overall.

JerrySloan I'm not sure how long you've been a Nuggets fan but I've been on this board "since hector was a pup". I'm not about to sell out on Shaw just yet. I think GK squeezed every bit of talent out of the squad 2 years ago and while the names might mostly be the same the players certainly are not. Ty and Gallo are not what thery were 2 years ago and while Iggy is now hated around here his facilitator presense has not been replaced.

Even with a coaching change these players don't fit. I will concede running is part of the soulution and is the quickest fix but I'd really like a squad built to get out of the first round....and even running this squad isn't that.

[tstrick33]

Shaw's trying to figure out this team. During the preseason he said he wants to play faster than GK's teams, so far they look a lot slower.

I don't believe the players will revolt, I actually think Shaw is admired in the locker room. Why the hell else would Robinson/Arthur pick up their options knowing playing time was going to be hard to come by with everyone coming back.

If worse comes to worse and we have to blow it up, we have a lot of valuable assets that any team would love to have. I don't think we would regress too much.

As of right now the Nuggets MUST stop fouling, Gallo needs to figure his shot out, it's flat and he has no legs, Lawson needs to attack and get the fast break going. Even though I have usually been negative on McGee, I think using a 3 Center attack could wear down some bigs, and finally our shooters need to start making some of these open threes.

[JerrySloan]

JerrySloan I'm not sure how long you've been a Nuggets fan but I've been on this board "since hector was a pup". I'm not about to sell out on Shaw just yet. I think GK squeezed every bit of talent out of the squad 2 years ago and while the names might mostly be the same the players certainly are not. Ty and Gallo are not what thery were 2 years ago and while Iggy is now hated around here his facilitator presense has not been replaced.

Even with a coaching change these players don't fit. I will concede running is part of the soulution and is the quickest fix but I'd really like a squad built to get out of the first round....and even running this squad isn't that.

Let's see. How about Issel, Jones, Skywalker, Taylor, the Eraser and Calvin. Is that far enough back?

As far as players "fitting", THAT problem isn't Shaw's. it's Josh Kroenke's and his puppet TIm Connelly. 8 players from Karl's last team are gone, none of them are worth calling a big loss right now although Fournier MIGHT become one.

Unfortunately, the 6 experienced players that management has added might be capable of more production than those gone but only if they were playing for, yes, Karl or some other coach who understood how to use them.

It is to be hoped that Harris, Nurkic and Green are going to turn into productive NBA players down the line. If you are willing to continue to support Shaw, however, I think it is very shortsighted to give up on Gallo or Ty or AA.

These 3 guys, along with Faried, need to be allowed to play the kind of game for which they are best suited with Mozgov, McGee, Chandler, Foye, Robinson and occasionally Gee for spot defensive duty.

Green, Nurkic, Harris, Arthur and even Hickson need to sit for at least a 15-20 game period to allow the previously mentioned guys to show what they can - or cannot - do.

[Powder Blue]

JerrySloan I'm not sure how long you've been a Nuggets fan but I've been on this board "since hector was a pup". I'm not about to sell out on Shaw just yet. I think GK squeezed every bit of talent out of the squad 2 years ago and while the names might mostly be the same the players certainly are not. Ty and Gallo are not what thery were 2 years ago and while Iggy is now hated around here his facilitator presense has not been replaced.

Even with a coaching change these players don't fit. I will concede running is part of the soulution and is the quickest fix but I'd really like a squad built to get out of the first round....and even running this squad isn't that.

Let's see. How about Issel, Jones, Skywalker, Taylor, the Eraser and Calvin. Is that far enough back?

As far as players "fitting", THAT problem isn't Shaw's. it's Josh Kroenke's and his puppet TIm Connelly. 8 players from Karl's last team are gone, none of them are worth calling a big loss right now although Fournier MIGHT become one.

Unfortunately, the 6 experienced players that management has added might be capable of more production than those gone but only if they were playing for, yes, Karl or some other coach who understood how to use them.

It is to be hoped that Harris, Nurkic and Green are going to turn into productive NBA players down the line. If you are willing to continue to support Shaw, however, I think it is very shortsighted to give up on Gallo or Ty or AA.

These 3 guys, along with Faried, need to be allowed to play the kind of game for which they are best suited with Mozgov, McGee, Chandler, Foye, Robinson and occasionally Gee for spot defensive duty.

Green, Nurkic, Harris, Arthur and even Hickson need to sit for at least a 15-20 game period to allow the previously mentioned guys to show what they can - or cannot - do.

Not trying to ruffle feathers JS, good to have another frequent poster on this board. Is it possible that the K's actually want to run a Shaw system? No way he was hired without them having a clue that he was going to change things up. I don't want to give up on guys but we gotta pick a path. Either build around what we have now or jettison it and develop our young guys.

If we're going to suck this year lets really suck and get a good draft pick and free up cap space. Another 35-40 win year is no mans land.

[Powder Blue]

JerrySloan I'm not sure how long you've been a Nuggets fan but I've been on this board "since hector was a pup". I'm not about to sell out on Shaw just yet. I think GK squeezed every bit of talent out of the squad 2 years ago and while the names might mostly be the same the players certainly are not. Ty and Gallo are not what thery were 2 years ago and while Iggy is now hated around here his facilitator presense has not been replaced.

Even with a coaching change these players don't fit. I will concede running is part of the soulution and is the quickest fix but I'd really like a squad built to get out of the first round....and even running this squad isn't that.

Let's see. How about Issel, Jones, Skywalker, Taylor, the Eraser and Calvin. Is that far enough back?

As far as players "fitting", THAT problem isn't Shaw's. it's Josh Kroenke's and his puppet TIm Connelly. 8 players from Karl's last team are gone, none of them are worth calling a big loss right now although Fournier MIGHT become one.

Unfortunately, the 6 experienced players that management has added might be capable of more production than those gone but only if they were playing for, yes, Karl or some other coach who understood how to use them.

It is to be hoped that Harris, Nurkic and Green are going to turn into productive NBA players down the line. If you are willing to continue to support Shaw, however, I think it is very shortsighted to give up on Gallo or Ty or AA.

These 3 guys, along with Faried, need to be allowed to play the kind of game for which they are best suited with Mozgov, McGee, Chandler, Foye, Robinson and occasionally Gee for spot defensive duty.

Green, Nurkic, Harris, Arthur and even Hickson need to sit for at least a 15-20 game period to allow the previously mentioned guys to show what they can - or cannot - do.

Not trying to ruffle feathers JS, good to have another frequent poster on this board. Is it possible that the K's actually want to run a Shaw system? No way he was hired without them having a clue that he was going to change things up. I don't want to give up on guys but we gotta pick a path. Either build around what we have now or jettison it and develop our young guys.

If we're going to suck this year lets really suck and get a good draft pick and free up cap space. Another 35-40 win year is no mans land.

[pickaxe]

I don't know if Cousins actually did say, "Are you kidding me?" to Shaw, but I certainly will say it.

Ha. I questioned this way back in the beginning, in the beginning (post Karl), but things started taking a decent form where you could conjecture a possible continuation of Karl's success. After that timeline happens....

It would be unwise to gauge Shaw's performance based on a FG% of ......8% or whatever it is right now. That's what it feels like anyway. He absolutely is up for criticism if he can't take this unusual problem and right the ship.

Aaron & Faried both deserve 21+ minutes and are huge players and catalysts. If they are reckless and out of control .....well, then you see what we see these past few games. Call ME crazy, but I at least want to see this season play out until we see players start to hit ceilings, not after they all attempted their best Kobe and James Worthy impressions.