Draft misses..the main difference between Winners and Losers

ILOVEIT · Post #1 » by **ILOVEIT** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:09 pm

Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

Moose10Fan · Post #2 » by **Moose10Fan** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:18 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

Actually Joe was a good drafter, just made terrible trades.

amcfad27 · Post #3 » by **amcfad27** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:47 pm

imborj · Post #4 » by **imborj** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:51 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

of those point guards, they traded away lawson, kept flynn(not in the league anymore), and currently overpaying rubio for chilling on the bench for half a season..

Cycklops · Post #5 » by **Cycklops** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:55 pm

Isiah Thomas was a phenomenal drafter...and...

Rasheeed!!! · Post #6 » by **Rasheeed!!!** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:55 pm

The thing is about drafting is that you are evaluating a player on a small sample size of work and trying to project the next 10 years. Then you have the fact that the conditions for the player pre draft and post draft and completely different. Money being a big one for example....some players just are happy to cash in a cheque others actually focus on improving their games.

It's not an easy gig but there are some teams better than others at drafting thats for certain.

jackwindham · Post #7 » by **jackwindham** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:20 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

I'm sure most of these million dollar executives would throw you some money if you can teach him how to simplify things.

Post #8 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:23 pm

Only tangentially related to the topic: But, I've always felt the main difference between the winning and losing draft picks for the Jazz has resolved upon mental traits.

If the Jazz are going to bust on a pick, it's usually because the player isnt' right between the ears.

Rupert Murdoch · Post #9 » by **Rupert Murdoch** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:34 pm

That's why I've always thought Sam Presti should be given more credit for drafting Harden and Westbrook. They were far from consensus picks. Westbrook was overshadowed by Collison and Love at UCLA and players like Love and Gordon were much more hyped up than he was. Same with Harden. Tyreke Evans and Ricky Rubio were getting much more pub coming into the draft. Of course Harden is gone now but that was a brilliant draft decision by Presti. If OKC had made different selections in those two drafts, they never would have made the finals in 2011 and had all the success that they've had.

cpfsf · Post #10 » by **cpfsf** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:39 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

bump this thread before or immediately after the 2015 draft. post your top 30 list of prospects, tell us who your team should have drafted, who will be a bust in the draft, etc.

Post #11 » by **Hawk Eye** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:45 pm

Right now it seems like the only player that our previous GM Danny Ferry found via the draft is Dennis Schröder. All his other selections have been useless. Looking back, I still cringe thinking that the Hawks could have had freaking CP3 but elected to take Marvin Williams..

KennyDuwayne · Post #12 » by **KennyDuwayne** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:50 pm

Wow so you're saying the only thing you have to do to be a good team is to get good players?

LloydFree · Post #13 » by **LloydFree** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:56 pm

Moose10Fan wrote:
ILOVEIT wrote:Kings continue to be bad. Why, because they passed on Liliard for pretty much a bust. They drafted Jimmer...who was a bust....
Warriors sucked for the lonnnnnnngest of time...drafting Dunleavy with the 3rd pick....Joe Smith with 1st pick....on and on....UNTIL...they drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Ezeli...actually hitting on the right picks finally.

The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

Look at Wolves....drafted THREE point guards one year in the draft with Curry and non of them were Curry lol.

So if you are a fan of a bad team right now, unless it's big time injuries, look no further than your GM. Odds are he sucks at drafting players.

Actually Joe was a good drafter, just made terrible trades.

Trading nothing for Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton was bad?

jowglenn · Post #14 » by **jowglenn** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:59 pm

I absolutely agree. Drafting is and probably always will be the most important way to succeed in the NBA. Let's look at the starting lineups or so of the playoff teams in the NBA.

Warriors: Drafted Curry, Drafted Thompson, Drafted Draymond Green. All at very favorable draft positions, I might add.
Blazers: Drafted Aldridge, Drafted Lillard, Drafted Batum
Thunder: Drafted Durant, Drafted Westbrook, Drafted Ibaka, Drafted Adams
Rockets: OK it's not ALWAYS the most important way to succeed. they did draft jones and motiejunas!
Grizzlies: Drafted Conley, at least. Quasi-drafted Gasol, in their hearts.
Spurs: Drafted Duncan, Parker, Leonard, Ginobili
Clippers: Drafted Griffin, Drafted Jordan
Mavericks: Drafted Dirk.
Pelicans? Drafted Anthony Davis
Phoenix? OK they've done a good job outside the draft lately

In the East;

Bulls: Drafted Noah, Drafted Rose, Drafted Butler, Drafted Mirotic, Drafted Gibson
Cavs: Drafted Lebron (might not count), Drafted Irving, Drafted Waiters/Thompson
Raptors: Drafted Derozan & Valanciunas and Ross
Atlanta: Drafted Horford, Drafted Teague
Washington: Drafted Wall, Drafted Beal
Milwaukee (I KNOW?!?!?): Drafted Sanders, Drafted Giannis
Pacers (special mention): Drafted Paul George & Roy Hibbert

So on like 84% of these teams, they drafted their best or second best player.

Drafting is the most important way to succeed in the NBA.

aal04 · Post #15 » by **aal04** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:02 am

Say that to the big city teams like Lakers, Celtics, houston who attract all-stars and franchise players like Shaq, Gasol, Pierce, KG, shuttlesworth etc.

NashtyNas · Post #16 » by **NashtyNas** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:02 am

KennyDuwayne wrote:Wow so you're saying the only thing you have to do to be a good team is to get good players?

Pan Jia Yuan · Post #17 » by **Pan Jia Yuan** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:02 am

jackwindham wrote:
ILOVEIT wrote:The point is that everyone makes it seem so complex to build a team when the truth is it's all about a GM that knows how to target talent and draft smart for three years is a row.

I'm sure most of these million dollar executives would throw you some money if you can teach him how to simplify things.

Then why are they million dollar executives in the first place?
Look up Chad Ford's analysis, get a monkey, let him throws some darts, and you'll probably be better off than with these million dollar executives.
One thing I can tell you for sure. They completely suck at evaluating foreign talent, and that's about 25% of the entire NBA talent pool.

Side beard · Post #18 » by **Side beard** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:03 am

I think what matters is coach/training system. Lots of bad team, for example cavs and in hockey - oilers, have had multiple #1 picks. Still sucked badly. I doubt it's players not being able to deliver as much as system itself being dysfuncional and unable to develop talent.

Look at Spurs. Draft late, always find gems.

username_taken · Post #19 » by **username_taken** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:06 am

aal04 wrote:Say that to the big city teams like Lakers, Celtics, houston who attract all-stars and franchise players like Shaq, Gasol, Pierce, KG, shuttlesworth etc.

I think that Boston cares about drafting right a lot, they've gone hard after draft picks.

LloydFree · Post #20 » by **LloydFree** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:08 am

GMs mess up drafts because they either can't project superior athletes' who have raw skills or they are scared to select raw skills. Many high draft busts are guys who don't project physically, but are good college "name" players. That's why guys like Sean May, Jimmer, Evan Turner, Luke Jackson and McDermott get picked much higher than they should. The GMs feel safe picking them because they can fall back on the name, and the owners and fans don't know enough to criticize the pick.
That's why Masai and Presti are the best drafters right now. They don't pick names or college stat sheets, they know how to project raw skills and athleticism.