Heights of 60's Hall of famers if measured Today

[mrsocko]

Players in the 50's and 60's where measured barefoot and so seem small today. These are examples of some of my favorites from the era.

Bill Russell was 6 ft 9 5/8 inches in bare feet add 1.25 inches for shoes like today and he is 6'11".

Jerry West measured at 6 ft 2 3/4" would be 6'4"

Bob Cousy 6' 1 1/2" would be 6 ft 3.

I still see disparaging remarks about the players being midgets back in the 50's and 60's but it wasn't so. Any other favorites you guys know about.

[ThaRegul8r]

I'm not sure why listed heights mattered instead of how well a player plays. People thought Hakeem was 7 foot because that's what he was listed as, but he was really 6-10. Robinson and Duncan were listed as dual 7-foot Twin Towers, but Duncan was actually 6-11. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what difference it makes when whatever the people who do so decide to list as a player's height has absolutely no impact whatsoever on his play or how he helps or hinders his team's success. Which should be the only thing that matters.

[D.Brasco]

There's no accurate way to answer this. Most players choose to be listed in shoes some don't.

Regardless, I think we can put to rest that Russell was some undersized small forward built center. The guy was taller than Dwight Howard with a great vertical and was supremely athletic and you can believe he'd be very decently built if he had access to today's workout equipment.

[CavaliersFTW]

Players in the 50's and 60's where measured barefoot and so seem small today. These are examples of some of my favorites from the era.

Bill Russell was 6 ft 9 5/8 inches in bare feet add 1.25 inches for shoes like today and he is 6'11".

Jerry West measured at 6 ft 2 3/4" would be 6'4"

Bob Cousy 6' 1 1/2" would be 6 ft 3.

I still see disparaging remarks about the players being midgets back in the 50's and 60's but it wasn't so. Any other favorites you guys know about.

Jerry West claims he measures over 6 feet 4 without shoes

He was only 6 feet 2 and 3/4 as a West Virginia Freshman or Sophomore but I'm guessing he grew by the time he was in the NBA his NCAA list height just stuck with him is my only guess because he himself doesn't seem sure why they always pegged him that short anytime he's interviewed about his height. Could also be because it paints him as a David in a league of Goliaths and made him easier to market to fans.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj9jbyUlsPU[/youtube]

Also where did you get that Cousy was 6-1 and 1/2 I have an entire database on player measurement data from pre-1980's and I add any and all types of data so long as it can be cited, did he claim that he was 6-1 and a half in a book or something?

Not all players back then were immune to exaggerated heights though. There were many more cases of "underbilled" guys back then than there is today (hardly anyone is "underbilled" today most everyone is overbilled) but even in the Mikan era players would/could get gifted an inch or two like today's players. In fact, I recently found out George Mikan himself was about 6-9 without shoes even though the NBA/Lakers billed him at 6-10. Willis Reed was 6-8 without shoes, even though the Knicks called him 6-9 or 6-10. Gus Johnson of Baltimore was 6-4 and 3/4 but was billed at 6-6 and Wes Unseld of Baltimore was billed as 6-7 or 6-8 even though he was 6-5 and 1/2 without shoes (the shortest center in NBA history to my knowledge). This is what the league is mostly like today. Though guys like West and Russell are examples of guys that no player today is analogous to. The closest thing to an "underbilled" player in today's league would be like a Kevin Durant, a player who chose to be listed barefoot. But that's much rarer today than it was in say, pre-1970's. For example Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar both listed barefoot, and they were faces of the league in their era. Combine that with guys like Russell, and West, and Oscar (6-4 and 3/4 without shoes, listing 6-5) and Baylor (6-5 without shoes, listing 6-5) and you can see a more honest barefoot listing was once much more common than it is today.

[CavaliersFTW]

Here check out some of what I've filled in:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S_Pw ... sample.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm not sure why listed heights mattered instead of how well a player plays. People thought Hakeem was 7 foot because that's what he was listed as, but he was really 6-10. Robinson and Duncan were listed as dual 7-foot Twin Towers, but Duncan was actually 6-11. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what difference it makes when whatever the people who do so decide to list as a player's height has absolutely no impact whatsoever on his play or how he helps or hinders his team's success. Which should be the only thing that matters.

Measurement data can be an interesting "stat" to discuss and compare with other players though. It shouldn't effect how we rank players effectiveness of course but so long as the data is available it can possibly even help explain or detail what makes certain players so good just like a stat like an assist or a rebound rate can.

You don't find it interesting for example, that Charles Barkley was only 6-4 and 5/8ths or w/e the Olympics measured him at without shoes? Or that his playing weight range was 250-300lbs? To me at least it is interesting seeing how tall, long, or heavy some players actually turn out to be under the tape or on a scale. Or how high than can reach either standing or on a jump. Heck it was interesting to me just finding out that list info isn't even an accurate thing.

[penbeast0]

Here check out some of what I've filled in:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S_Pw ... sample.jpg

If these are accurate, I really like having this information, particularly the vertical reach type data. Where did you get these measurements? A bit surprised by some of the weights. I thought Walt Bellamy eventually ballooned to 300 pounds for example.

[CavaliersFTW]

Here check out some of what I've filled in:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S_Pw ... sample.jpg

If these are accurate, I really like having this information, particularly the vertical reach type data. Where did you get these measurements? A bit surprised by some of the weights. I thought Walt Bellamy eventually ballooned to 300 pounds for example.

Do you mean Bob Lanier?

Lanier actually did according to the guys on the mic during an ASG I suppose I should/could update that 288 upper limit to 300.

Bellamy I'm not aware of gaining quite that much weight. The really "big" guys in the Chamberlain era (Like played at 270+ at least sometimes) were Boerwinkle, Lanier, Embry, and Unseld and eventually Artis Gilmore though he did not weigh that much the one time Chamberlain played him.

I don't know exactly how accurate these are but they are all cite-able, thus I can say I have varying bodies of evidence to support them.

[Warspite]

Players in the 50's and 60's where measured barefoot and so seem small today. These are examples of some of my favorites from the era.

Bill Russell was 6 ft 9 5/8 inches in bare feet add 1.25 inches for shoes like today and he is 6'11".

Jerry West measured at 6 ft 2 3/4" would be 6'4"

Bob Cousy 6' 1 1/2" would be 6 ft 3.

I still see disparaging remarks about the players being midgets back in the 50's and 60's but it wasn't so. Any other favorites you guys know about.

West is 6'4" barefoot. The 6'2" is a typo that was never fixed. West would be listed as 6'6" or 6'7" today. However its the fact that he has over a 7ft wingspan that makes him so big.

[D.Brasco]

Players in the 50's and 60's where measured barefoot and so seem small today. These are examples of some of my favorites from the era.

Bill Russell was 6 ft 9 5/8 inches in bare feet add 1.25 inches for shoes like today and he is 6'11".

Jerry West measured at 6 ft 2 3/4" would be 6'4"

Bob Cousy 6' 1 1/2" would be 6 ft 3.

I still see disparaging remarks about the players being midgets back in the 50's and 60's but it wasn't so. Any other favorites you guys know about.

West is 6'4" barefoot. The 6'2" is a typo that was never fixed. West would be listed as 6'6" or 6'7" today. However its the fact that he has over a 7ft wingspan that makes him so big.

His wingspan was not that big. It was 6'9" as per a stat I saw listed. Pretty decent still.

[trex_8063]

Here check out some of what I've filled in:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S_Pw ... sample.jpg

If these are accurate, I really like having this information, particularly the vertical reach type data. Where did you get these measurements? A bit surprised by some of the weights. I thought Walt Bellamy eventually ballooned to 300 pounds for example.

Do you mean Bob Lanier?

Lanier actually did according to the guys on the mic during an ASG I suppose I should/could update that 288 upper limit to 300.

Bellamy I'm not aware of gaining quite that much weight.

That was my impression. tbh, I've never known the origins of the "Bellamy ate himself into obsolescence" narrative which you (penbeast) proposed multiple times in the top 100 project. I've seen some video of Bellamy during his time in Detroit, and even a little in Atlanta (which is into the 1970's), and he didn't look overly chunky. Never knew surely enough to refute this narrative, though.

Lanier, otoh, clearly had some weight issues within his career.

Are you positive this narrative you've mentioned about Bellamy is actually substantiated?

[Warspite]

Players in the 50's and 60's where measured barefoot and so seem small today. These are examples of some of my favorites from the era.

Bill Russell was 6 ft 9 5/8 inches in bare feet add 1.25 inches for shoes like today and he is 6'11".

Jerry West measured at 6 ft 2 3/4" would be 6'4"

Bob Cousy 6' 1 1/2" would be 6 ft 3.

I still see disparaging remarks about the players being midgets back in the 50's and 60's but it wasn't so. Any other favorites you guys know about.

West is 6'4" barefoot. The 6'2" is a typo that was never fixed. West would be listed as 6'6" or 6'7" today. However its the fact that he has over a 7ft wingspan that makes him so big.

His wingspan was not that big. It was 6'9" as per a stat I saw listed. Pretty decent still.

Wilt said that he and west had the same sleeve length. I guess the wingspan is more about the width of torso than I thought.

[penbeast0]

Off the top of my head, I remember they quoted an opponent in Terry Pluto's book, Tall Tales, as saying that Bellamy's butt grew so big it needed it's own zip code. Bellamy weight jokes were pretty common when he played us during the 70s so I've always had that idea in the back of my head; with Lanier the running joke was his foot size (From the Miller Lite commercials). Don't remember any weight numbers though.

[CavaliersFTW]

Off the top of my head, I remember they quoted an opponent in Terry Pluto's book, Tall Tales, as saying that Bellamy's butt grew so big it needed it's own zip code. Bellamy weight jokes were pretty common when he played us during the 70s so I've always had that idea in the back of my head; with Lanier the running joke was his foot size (From the Miller Lite commercials). Don't remember any weight numbers though.

Well if you ever come across anything in writing please bump the thread or let me know because I collect all this data. Occasionally I use it in discussions or posting info on my twitter account, etc. Highest figure I've seen cited for Bellamy in Newspapers is that 265 number. Which, for a guy who didn't lift weights is definitely pretty big. Dwight Howard without weights for example might not have ever reached 265 (he's about 270 right now I think) unless he gained some body fat he was a 240 pound rookie for reference and even as a rookie he'd spent years weight training already. The common theme I've noticed with successful NBA centers, even in the past, is that they generally filled out to become legitimately big people - they had too constantly fighting for position inside against each other and a giant like Wilt. Not just in height but in strength and overall size. Even thin looking guys like Bill Russell eventually hit the 240 mark and he also never lifted weights.

[mrsocko]

I saw and interview with Barngani where he said his height was 7' barefoot, which makes his rebounding even more atrocious.