Piston cap space analysis

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:46 pm

I bet you were expecting a bunch of numbers - I don't have them, but I know we've had some previous posts (somewhere) that have tightly explained our cap space. With free agency upon us, can someone post a good update here on our cap space so we can refer to it as we try to sign free agents? Thx!

joeposh · Post #2 » by **joeposh** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:50 pm

coordinator0 · Post #3 » by **coordinator0** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:51 pm

I wrote this in the offseason thread yesterday:

Here's what I have for Detroit's current cap situation:

Brandon Jennings - $8,344,497
Ersan Ilyasova - $7,900,000
Jodie Meeks - $6,270,000
Reggie Jackson - $4,433,683 (qualifying offer, that should number should count instead of the cap hold)
Andre Drummond - $3,272,091
Anthony Tolliver - $3,000,000 (has supposedly had his contract guaranteed by the team)
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - $2,891,760
Cartier Martin - $1,270,964 (has reportedly opted in)
Quincy Miller - $981,384 (unguaranteed)
Spencer Dinwiddie - $845,059
Stanley Johnson - $2,745,840 (cap number from 2014 8th overall pick Nik Stauskas, will likely be higher)
Darrun Hilliard - $525,093 (2015 rookie minimum, may end up higher)
? - $0
? - $0
? - $0
Josh Smith - $5,400,000
Aaron Gray - $452,049

Total Estimate - $48,332,420

I'm not factoring in the cap holds of Monroe, Prince, Anthony, or Lucas III since I expect them all to be renounced so Detroit can make a move early in free agency. When Johnson and Hilliard sign their rookie deals that will bring the roster up to 12 players (assuming Jackson's qualifying offer counts as a roster spot) so there won't be any roster charges for not having enough players under contract. With the estimated cap being $67.1 million and the luxury tax threshold projected to be $81.7 million Detroit has around $19 to $34 million to work with. I expect them to get closer to the latter since it seems like Gores isn't afraid to spend.

princeofpalace · Post #4 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:04 pm

Here are the projected cap holds for the Pistons this offseason

2015 Cap Holds:
Jackson- $5,510,923
#8 pick - $2,288,200 (rookies can sign for 80% to 120% or the rookie scale)
Minimum Cap Hold- $525,093

When you add those numbers to the contracts on the books for the 15-16 season
Jennings- $8,344,497
Ilyasova- $7,900,000
Meeks- $6,270,000
Tolliver- $3,000,000
KCP- $2,891,760
Andre- $3,272,091
Martin- $1,270,964
Dindwiddie- $845,059
Smith- $5,400,000
Gray- $452,049
Miller - $981,384

You get $48,952,020. If the cap rises to $67.1 million as projected- that leaves Detroit with 18,147,980 to play with this free agency.

coordinator0 · Post #5 » by **coordinator0** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:17 pm

It's a relatively small difference, but I'm not sure if Jackson's qualifying offer or cap hold is the number that counts. Now that the team officially made him a restricted free agent I think it's the qualifying offer but I haven't found anything to confirm that.

Post #6 » by **Snakebites** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:19 pm

Could also get a modest increase if Smith signs a free agent deal above the minimum. No way of controlling when that happens or if it even happens at a time that could help us, though. Given our use of the stretch provision, it likely wouldn't make much of a difference anyway.

The Penguin · Post #7 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:25 pm

We need to move Jennings. I'm not convinced he's going to happily accept a backup role for 15-20 minutes per game (at most) going into his FA walk year and moving him gives us the room to sign both Carroll & Danny Green. We can use our few remaining cap dollars plus the room exception to sign a vet backup PG (this years Augustin) and a backup big.

princeofpalace · Post #8 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:31 pm

coordinator0 wrote:It's a relatively small difference, but I'm not sure if Jackson's qualifying offer or cap hold is the number that counts. Now that the team officially made him a restricted free agent I think it's the qualifying offer but I haven't found anything to confirm that.

No, its his caphold and not his QO that determines our capspace because his caphold is greater than the QO

From Larry Coon

A restricted free agent is included in team salary by the greatest of:

His free agent amount (as defined in the table above)
The amount of his qualifying offer (see question number 44)
The first-year salary in a first refusal exercise notice (a notice given to the player that the team is exercising its right of first refusal by matching an offer sheet (see question number 44)

But yeah- we will have around 18-19 million. I have to edit my initial estimate to remove a minimum cap hold.

Also, is Qmiller included in the estimatation? For some reason, I think he wasnt under contract for the 15-16 season

ComboGuardCity · Post #9 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:38 pm

Can someone sign Josh to a 14mill deal again please?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The Penguin · Post #10 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:52 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:Can someone sign Josh to a 14mill deal again please?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm just hoping he doesn't return to Houston for the minimum.

Post #11 » by **theBigLip** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:16 pm

The Penguin wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Can someone sign Josh to a 14mill deal again please?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm just hoping he doesn't return to Houston for the minimum.

I don't think it needs to be 14M - I think 5.4M would be sufficient to wipe him from our books.

The Penguin · Post #12 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:19 pm

theBigLip wrote:
The Penguin wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Can someone sign Josh to a 14mill deal again please?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm just hoping he doesn't return to Houston for the minimum.

I don't think it needs to be 14M - I think 5.4M would be sufficient to wipe him from our books.

Actually I think it needs to be about $7 mil, the offset is the difference of new contract less the minimum salary minus the cap hit.

However, it's my understanding it's applied after the season, not instantly when the new deal is signed.

coordinator0 · Post #13 » by **coordinator0** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:44 pm

princeofpalace wrote:Also, is Qmiller included in the estimatation? For some reason, I think he wasnt under contract for the 15-16 season

He should be. Pincus has him signed through 2015-16 although it's unguaranteed this year. I'm not sure when the deadline for that is though.

Thanks for the prior clarification.

Irate · Post #14 » by **Irate** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:44 pm

The Penguin wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
The Penguin wrote:

I'm just hoping he doesn't return to Houston for the minimum.

I don't think it needs to be 14M - I think 5.4M would be sufficient to wipe him from our books.

Actually I think it needs to be about $7 mil, the offset is the difference of new contract less the minimum salary minus the cap hit.

However, it's my understanding it's applied after the season, not instantly when the new deal is signed.

Not sure of the exact number, but it would have to be over $10M.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q66

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary3) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another team for the 2011-12 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $762,195 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2011-12), divided by two, or $118,902. The team is still responsible for paying $4,881,098 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,881,098, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

The Penguin · Post #15 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:00 pm

Irate wrote:
The Penguin wrote:
theBigLip wrote:
I don't think it needs to be 14M - I think 5.4M would be sufficient to wipe him from our books.

Actually I think it needs to be about $7 mil, the offset is the difference of new contract less the minimum salary minus the cap hit.

However, it's my understanding it's applied after the season, not instantly when the new deal is signed.

Not sure of the exact number, but it would have to be over $10M.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q66

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary3) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another team for the 2011-12 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $762,195 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2011-12), divided by two, or $118,902. The team is still responsible for paying $4,881,098 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,881,098, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

You are right, I forgot the divide by half.