How will current Pistons @ peak compare to their 2004 counterparts?

[Laimbeer]

When they reach their peak, how will these Pistons compare to their 2004 counterparts? Greater or lesser?

[kurtis48239]

If by peak,you mean they all hit their ceilings,then my list goes

Dre would have to win out ,not only will he be a better scorer but also a better rebounder and his defense should at least be avg by then.But then again wallace anchored that frontline with his hard nosed defense.

I think stanimal will win out in this department.

Kcp vs rip is a hard one,If kcp becomes more efficent and better at his ball handling,then he could take it with defense being the tipping point.

I would take billups over reggie all day.

[DBC10]

I think I'd take all of the 04 gang over the current except maybe Tayshaun and maybe sorta KCP since I value the 3 ball more.

[Snakebites]

04 across the board.

Peak Drummond has the best shot IMO.

[detroitKG]

Outside our PF position, all have the ability to peak out higher than that 04 team.
Will be fun to see how things play out in the years to come.

[MrBigShot]

Stanley will likely become better than Tay imo. Reggie wont be as good as Chauncey, and KCP is pretty unlikely to surpass Rip. Dre's got a chance but he has a long, long, long way to go. Ben's defensive impact was gigantic.

[dVs33]

04 across the board.

Peak Drummond has the best shot IMO.

this.

Comparing one of the great teams of history to a lottery team is pretty hard.

[ComboGuardCity]

Tay is vastly overrated. We could replace him with prime Matt Barnes or Shane Battier and we still get the same result. SJwill be a better player at his peak IMO

[MotownMadness]

SJ should be a better player then Tay but after that Drummond becoming better than Big Ben is next best shot. Ben's defense was just too good though for Drummond to become as impactful in my opinion.

[DocRI]

This is entirely about where you think our current players will reach "at their peak" (as the title puts it). Although Tay is still playing, the 2004 team is, for all intents and purposes, a done deal and we know where each of those players reached at their respective peaks (although truthfully, there's bound to be some disagreement even about that!). So, in my mind, those bars have been set; how many of our current squad do I see clearing them? Well ...

DRUMMOND VS. BEN — IMHO, Ben Wallace is a first ballot Hall of Famer (he won't get in on the first try, but he should!). Between the Defensive Player of the Year awards (AWARDS, as in multiple) and rebounding, blocks and steals titles (again, TITLES, as in multiple), I truly believe he belongs in Springfield. That is, simply put, THE highest any bar of comparison can be set. Do I think Andre Drummond is a future Hall of Famer? I sure as hell hope so, and I think there are encouraging signs, but there is just no way to make that claim about ANY player as young as he is, and I do mean ANY player. After all, reaching the HOF takes not just skill, but longevity; Anthony Davis is clearly the best young player in the NBA right now, but if he blew out both knees and never regained his current level he'd never make the Hall (for a cross sport comparison, think Terrell Davis). This vote isn't about slighting Dre in the least; it's about respecting the true greatness of Big Ben. VOTE: BEN

STANLEY VS. TAY — Of course, this is probably the most ridiculous one to speculate about since Stanley hasn't even played a single NBA game yet! That said, and with all due respect, Tayshaun Prince set this bar at a VERY reachable level. Prince was the consummate role player and solid starter on a championship team, but that's it; he was never an all star and never even close to a primary offensive option (and when asked to fill more a prominent role later in his career, he and the team struggled). All great teams need players like that, but individually, Tay was a very good, but never great, player. Can Stanley top that? Seeing as his first all star selection will be one more than Tay ever garnered, I'll be optimistic and say yes. VOTE: STANLEY

KCP VS. RIP — Trying to remain as objective as possible (i.e. not look back on the good days of Rip too strongly or the bad days of Rip too negatively), Rip Hamilton was a multi-time all star reserve. And for the record, I don't mean that as a slight in the least, 'cuz that's an amazing accomplishment! But it's a simple fact — he was a star, not a superstar. And while he could be somewhat of a liability on the defensive end, his unique mid-range game and inexhaustible motor running off screens allowed the Pistons offensive options that few other teams could pull off. Do I see KCP reaching that level in his career? Simply put, no, I don't; I actually think he's gonna prove out to be of the Tayshaun, solid-starter-role-player level, which is a step below Rip's. VOTE: RIP

RJ VS. CHAUNCEY — Okay, here comes the one that's gonna earn me the most grief — IMHO, Chauncey Billups was the same level of player as Rip Hamilton (and, by the way, Rasheed Wallace too, but he's not in these comps). Again, he was a multi-time all star reserve, and a star, but never a superstar and not a future Hall of Famer like Big Ben. Plus, the seasons he put up his best individual numbers were actually past the peak of the team as a whole (i.e. we never made the Finals with him as more of an offensive focal point under Flip Saunders). But again, this is a hell of a high place to set the bar! So I asked myself, do I think Reggie Jackson is going to make multiple all star teams throughout the course of his career? And, honestly ... my answer is yes. Yes, I'm being very optimistic, but playing for SVG, with Drummond, I could see RJ putting up numbers that are, well ... ironically, REALLY "Chauncey-like." And again, to be clear, this is NOT a dig against Chauncey; it's rather a HUGE compliment to Reggie. VOTE: NO VOTE (PUSH)

As always, these are just my takes, so take 'em for what they're worth (hopefully an entertaining read).

[Cowology]

'04 wasn't just about how good they were as individuals, but how they functioned as 1 cohesive unit. I could sit here and say all 5 guys have the potential to be better "player's" than their '04 counterparts, and yet this team may never get past the 1st round. And yet some of you take offense to the notion that one of these kids has the potential to be better than a proven player?

These types of comparisons never end well. Better to debate '90 and '04 and leave the '15 team to figure out their own future.

[Canadafan]

Isiah > CB
Joe > Rip
Rodman > Tay
Buddha < Sheed
Laimbeer < Ben(although my boy Billy woulda gave Ben fits if they played each other)

[DocRI]

Isiah > CB
Joe > Rip
Rodman > Tay
Buddha < Sheed
Laimbeer < Ben(although my boy Billy woulda gave Ben fits if they played each other)

^ Ibid, and none of the votes are that close, IMHO. And if you prefer Aguirre at SF and Mahorn at PF for the Bad Boys, I think the voting is still pretty clearly the same — Aguirrre > Tay and Mahorn < Sheed. And yes, Lambs would've given Ben FITS 'cuz, well, he gave EVERYONE fits! But as I wrote earlier, I think Ben's a future HOFer and Laimbeer clearly wasn't, so Ben wins that comp.

[tmorgan]

If the Bad Boys played a seven game series against the 2004 team, Laimbeer would have been in the hospital by game five, because Big Ben would have put up with his theatrics for a few games and them knocked him out cold with an elbow to his head in game four. Or maybe Sheed decks him instead, because they'd probably switch up and put Ben on Ricky so he could roam and dominate down low.

Keep in mind, I love Bill Laimbeer, but Big Ben don't play that.

[hoophabit]

If the Bad Boys played a seven game series against the 2004 team, Laimbeer would have been in the hospital by game five, because Big Ben would have put up with his theatrics for a few games and them knocked him out cold with an elbow to his head in game four. Or maybe Sheed decks him instead, because they'd probably switch up and put Ben on Ricky so he could roam and dominate down low.

Keep in mind, I love Bill Laimbeer, but Big Ben don't play that.

I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Bill played a long time in a much tougher league than did the 2004 team. I don't recall Bill ever getting punked by anyone, unless you want to count Robert Parrish assaulting him from behind. Even then, he got back up and continued to play. He might have been a PITA agitator, but his game wasn't all theatrics. Laimbeer was a tough and resilient player.

Cow, you're right again!

[Canadafan]

Bad boys take down 2004 title team 100 times out of 100. Only the youngins here that weren't around for late 80's Pistons teams would disagree

[DeKroit]

Big Ben > Drummond - Sure Drummond has greater offense, but when it comes to rebounding, I think they'd be neck to neck. Big Ben anchored one of the best defenses in NBA history. There is no way Drummond will beat him in that department.

Stanimal > Tayshaun Prince
Chauncey > Reggie Jackson - I'll take Mr. Big Shot any day.
Rip = KCP - Honestly said, I chose Rip > KCP.

[Cowology]

Bad Boys sweep '04. Better backcourt. More balanced frontcourt. Superior depth. And Lamb ain't nobodies bitch. He'd throw down with anybody, and frankly he'd be inside Sheed's head and would have him ejected by the start of the 2nd quarter.

Anyway, if you really wanna compare this current squad to '04 I'd roll like this....

RJ > Billups
Yup, I'll say it. Reggie will be the better player. People always forget how friggin' terrible Chauncey was for long periods of time and complete ignore the fact he was down right putrid in the 1st 3 rounds of the playoffs in both '04 and '05. He got abused by the likes of Jamal Tinsley and Damon Jones. He will forever be beloved because of how well he played in his 2 Finals appearances, but in a historical context he's actually pretty damn overrated.

No clue if he can approach Billups leadership and intangibles, but my money is on RJ being the better player by the time his career is over with. Whether or not history actually reflects that will depend on how successful this current team is of course.

KCP vs. Rip? This one I have a tough time with. I think KCP tops out at Rip, which is to say a 2nd tier SG and borderline All-Star. But I'm not as confident as some in saying he actually get's there. He might remain the Tay level adequate starter and role player who brings defense 1st and enough offense that you can't simply ignore him. I'll give a slight edge to Rip.

Stanimal vs Tay? Stanimal all day. Kid is going to be good. Tay was a huge beneficiary of the NFZ which allowed him to play off his man and utilize his length to disrupt shooters. Take that away and he was an average starter at best with mediocre defense and a penchant for running down the clock by pounding the rock while his slim frame failed to actually back his defender down.

Dre vs Big Ben? Ima roll with Big Ben, but I feel obligated to qualify that remark. I simply can't vote against the proven 4x DPOY when Dre has yet to actually accomplish anything. It's a respect thing. That said if Dre actually lives up to his potential and learns to use his ridiculous natural gifts than he can walk away with this in a landslide. He's a bigger, stronger, faster D12. He'll never be the defender Ben was, but he the potential to dominate the paint at both ends.

All of that said I go back to my previous statement; what made '04 special was they were greater than the sum of their parts. Being "better" individual players is no guarantee of success. Hell, the Lakers were more talented that year and arguably the Pacers as well. Potential and talent are all nice on paper, but the games are played on hardwood. We'll see.

[Snakebites]

Wow, Cow, some serious Billups hate there.

I mean, its not like the 82 games leading up to the playoffs matter or anything....

Plus his overall playoff stats look fine. I'll grant there are some memorable poor performances in the first few rounds of the playoffs that probably stick out, but the overall playoff stats really don't support the "putridity" that you cite. At all. Not when we're looking at his total overall body of playoff work (and yes, you are going to ask people not to focus on the finals you don't get to ignore other playoff years).

[Cowology]

How is bringing to attention the fact Billups was terrible in a number of playoff series asking anybody to "ignore" anything? I'd say that's the complete opposite. I neither hate the guy or think he was a bad player; all I'm saying is the dude doesn't walk on water as seems to be the retrospective view of him these days.

Billups was an outstanding player. I love the guy. Talking about his blemishes isn't "hating", it's objectivity when talking about ranking in a historical context.

'04 Playoffs: 16.4 ppg (.385), 5.9 apg, 3rpg, 1.3 spg, 2.6 t/o. And that is *after* his Finals MVP series against the Lakers.

I'm not dismissing his regular season accomplishments in any way, nor am I sweeping under the rug how good he was in other playoff series. What I am saying is that projecting RJ to be better than him is not crazy talk, but I can't say that without addressing the blemishes because all anybody seems to remember are the good things and people get their panties in a bunch anytime somebody dares to challenge that. You say RJ will be better around here and people act like you killed their puppy.