TRADE PROPOSITION: DJ for D12

[Ranma]

The reported animosity between Howard and Harden in Houston does pose an interesting question now that couldn't reasonably be asked earlier. Would it be a good idea to trade DeAndre Jordan for Dwight Howard?

Neither are perfect but their salaries are close to each other. Howard has a player option for one more year after the season while Jordan has 2 years and a player option for a 3rd after 2015-16.

I'm curious what the current sentiment is but the poll is dynamic and choices can be changed throughout the season.

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[nickhx2]

dj's regressed and isn't meeting expectations but i despise dwight. he's getting older and if he's not happy being 2nd fiddle with the rockets then for sure he's going to bolt after being 3rd with the clips.

at least with dj he might get better. i don't see him being much better than he is but hey, he might.

[Ranma]

I agree with everything you said, nick, but I'm more conflicted on the matter. Howard is considered the better defender of the two. He's even the better free-throw shooter as someone who scores over 50% from the charity stripe as opposed to DJ being underneath it. You're right about him being a whiner who can't handle being the sidekick despite the fact that he can't handle the responsibilities and duties of being a leader either.

However, both Griffin and Paul are facilitators who are willing to defer credit to the team and teammates. This means that Doc, BG, and CP3 can BS their way into placating Howard to feed his ego when everyone else knows the truth. Heck, Doc blew enough smoke up DJ's rear to motivate him to perform better and even believe that he had a legit shot at being an All-Star. The Clippers would continue conducting business as usual in that regard only this time it would be for D12's benefit instead of DJ's.

With Doc's team including Blake primarily operating from the perimeter, having a post presence in Howard who has some offensive moves would also serve the Clippers well. Not to mention that Howard is also a capable rebounder and shot-blocker himself who actually has better body positioning than DJ.

Another thing to keep in mind is that our Big 3 would actually live up to its name in having 3 superstars. Also, as much of a whiner Howard is, I actually think he does care more about winning than DeAndre does. A con is that DJ has been an iron man so far in his NBA career while Howard has had health concerns.

Plus, I was thinking that Howard would be a more tradeable asset, but his player option for the 2016-17 season has him more as a rental player whereas Jordan is locked in for a couple of more years. However, this fact could appeal to Houston in getting a more controllable asset in addition to getting back a flashy name playing in his hometown.

I don't know. I'd have to currently lean towards making such a deal, but I might change my mind after, which again, this poll allows for.

[Ranma]

This might also serve as an opportunity to package either Crawford or Stephenson along with Jordan to get back either Trevor Ariza or K.J. McDaniel along with Howard. Just something else to keep in mind.

[Wammy Giveaway]

I would welcome this. Here are some facts:

1. Dwight Howard has defeated Doc River's teams twice. The first one in 2009 as a Magic vs. Doc's Big 3 Celtics, lost in the 2nd round. The second one in 2015 as a Rocket vs. Doc's Clippers, lost in the 2nd round by way of a 3-1 collapse.

2. Dwight Howard is a superstar. I define a Big 3 as having three players with multiple All-Star selections each. When the Big 3 Celtics was formed in 2007, Paul Pierce (10 appearances, plus Finals MVP), Ray Allen (10) and Kevin Garnett (15) combined for 35 All Star appearances. Chris Paul (8) and Blake Griffin (5) combine for 13 All Star selections. Dwight has 8 in his belt. DeAndre has none. Now you understand why I've been hesitant and reluctant to call this Paul-Griffin-Jordan trio a Big 3 ever since Doc took over.

3. Familiarity prospers. Dwight Howard knows Josh Smith and Pablo Prigioni. Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are teammates of the United States Mens Basketball Team.

4. Chris Paul. Point-guard driven teams always lose in the playoffs. Big men with post play is what gets you deep into the playoffs; that's why it is called the post season. Allen Iverson was always a 2nd round exit, until the Philadelphia 76ers traded for superstar Dikembe Mutombo in the 2000-01 season. 2001 remains the only year that Iverson ever got out of the 2nd round - into the Finals no less. Chris Paul has never played with an All Star center before. More importantly, Chris Paul has never played with a Team USA teammate before. The only time Paul ever won something of significance was with Team USA and all those superstars. Adding a superstar would mean Paul must relegate even more than ever to make the conference finals.

Only one thing stands in the way of this trade: DeAndre's friendship with Blake Griffin. I think Blake Griffin was the only reason why DJ could not see himself leave Los Angeles. Think about this: had DJ followed through with his intentions of moving to Dallas, Griffin would have pulled a Markieff Morris and demanded a trade.

[mattd13]

no, no, no. I watched howard in Orlando for years and he is the biggest diva, ball hog, non passer, cry baby, in the nba. he dished his own teammates and was not coachable. I am not all that happy with dj but he has some upside and does not appear to be a whiner. howard however is a cancer that this team can do with out. I was also not happy about lance and how has that worked out. this team has some holes on the second unit and I hope doc can get some help but at this point I doubt it. we just do not have the assets to get much that would be better than what we have.

[QRich3]

DJ is 3 years younger, and he's an ironman who never misses a game. Howard is good for 10 to 30 games missed every season, and nowadays he's not even able to play on back-to-back games when he's fully healthy. For that reason alone, DJ has a lot more value than Dwight and I would not entertain a trade like that. Now if you are talking about adding an Ariza for Crawford swap, that would be a lot harder to think about.

Whatever the narrative about Howard, he's still an elite defender and he's been terrific in the last 2 playoffs, we should know that of all people. Today, he's a much better player than DJ, but that might not last longer than this season.

[BlzMwt]

3. Familiarity prospers. Dwight Howard knows Josh Smith and Pablo Prigioni. Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are teammates of the United States Mens Basketball Team.

I don't think this is very important. Dwight had familiarity with those rocket players last season and if not for the Clipper meltdown the rockets would have never made the conference finals and all summer there would have been talks of how the rockets need to blow things up, with chemistry issues and whatnot

4. Big men with post play is what gets you deep into the playoffs; that's why it is called the post season.

I'm sorry but that's really not true lol. Post season... as in "post" meaning "after" the regular season. As in "post" secondary school meaning after secondary school. A "post" workout meal after you workout.

But anyways, to the entire scenario... no way. Whatever advantage that Dwight has over DJ is mitigated by the fact that he misses games and has attitude problems. You can't count on him to be healthy for the playoffs unless you have him on some sort of maintenance program where he misses games like last season. And then because of that, you end up starting Smith(?) and getting a lower seed because you lost more regular season games.

And Dwight is the king of excuses. There's always something he isn''t happy about. He doesn't get enough touches. His teammates aren't good enough. He didn't take responsibility in Orlando, LA and maybe now Houston. You don't want that here.

Case in point and I've mentioned this before... in critical games during the playoffs, you need him on the floor. Yet first quarter he gets into foul trouble. What does he do? Laugh it off. This was how it was against the Clippers. How it was in Orlando. I understand not letting your frustration turn into you getting angry at the ref and getting a technical, but when its game 6 and your team is on the brink of elimination and you're laughing that you have to go to the bench, it really shows your character.

[nickhx2]

yeah dwight is crazy injury prone and he's only getting older. dj, whether by luck or fortitude does not. that means quite a bit.

i think it's important to remember that dwight basically tried to take himself out of game 6, except he was stupidly allowed to stay in. something that may have cost us the series but that's besides the point. he is a loser.

[madmaxmedia]

I'm not exactly for the trade, but the thing is Dwight is not just 2nd fiddle, he is 6th- 5 other Rockets have taken more shots than him this year. If he's not happy this year with his offensive opportunities, I can kinda understand.

I might lean towards rolling the dice here, to take a shot at hopefully elevating the team's title chances. There are plenty of reasons not to do so though. He's not been the same since after the back surgery.

[TucsonClip]

No thanks, we could pull off a better deal for DJ than taking on the last year of Dwight and then having to pay him long-term.

[og15]

I thought of this for a second then said "nope".

Right now Dwight Howard is playing like a DJ who turns it over way too much. Dwight hasn't played at a superstar level and is not even at a definite All-Star level this season. Historically he's a much smarter defensive player than DJ, but his recent dislike for wanting to be a pick and roll C has made him much less beneficial to an offense.

Dwight would have to play second fiddle to Blake and CP on this team, and even in starters minutes we're talking about him being about a 15 ppg player. From all he's saying he wants to have a role where he's a 20 PPG player and the offense runs through him, and that is not and should not happen here.

In addition like we all know, the comparison of health between the two is huge.

This might also serve as an opportunity to package either Crawford or Stephenson along with Jordan to get back either Trevor Ariza or K.J. McDaniel along with Howard. Just something else to keep in mind.

...but if you add the extra option of bringing back Trevor Ariza also, then that has great potential of changing my mind, but you don't want a disgruntled, moping player who doesn't want to play his role. Dwight Howard is the guy that was fighting with Nash about being a pick and roll big man and rolling hard to the basket because he wanted post ups, but on this team, that would be his role.

The problem I have that might not be resolved is that Dwight is expiring and probably wants a max contract again and I have no interest in the Clippers doing such a thing.

[nickhx2]

the only thing that's kind of ok about trading dj for dwight is getting out from under dj's contract in an attempt to go after horford or batum + a cheapo noah deal.

but there are so many frigging ifs there and dj would really have to be underperforming hard to take that kind of gamble (not that he isn't already underachieving).

[TucsonClip]

the only thing that's kind of ok about trading dj for dwight is getting out from under dj's contract in an attempt to go after horford or batum + a cheapo noah deal.

but there are so many frigging ifs there and dj would really have to be underperforming hard to take that kind of gamble (not that he isn't already underachieving).

Like I said, we would be better off dealing DJ for a package based off picks and a SF or lesser C than dealing for Dwight. Especially if we dealt DJ in July, when plenty of teams will have cap space. I dont want to pay Dwight and we would have to waive his bird rights (or sign-and-trade) to free up any cap space anyway. And if we choose S&T, who wants to pay him this summer? I sure wouldnt. His value on the open market this summer via trade = very, very limited.

Keep DJ and if for some reason we decide he is the guy that needs to go, then we are the ones holding the cards this summer.

[og15]

If the team could get a starting level SF (not Rudy Gay), and a guy like Kosta Koufus for DJ, that would be a good deal, but that's not an easy task. I would prefer that to gambling on free agency, and I'm not sure the team would even have enough cap space to sign a good C and a good SF even without DJ's contract and letting go of Lance.

[madmaxmedia]

How much would Dwight improve our defense? The Orlando Dwight was the best goaltender in the NBA, not sure how Houston Dwight's defense is nowadays.

Offensively assume it's a draw, since neither center would be a featured offensive player (I think Dwight might get a couple more PPG, but not a big impact there.)

[nickhx2]

probably by a lot. dwight is an intelligent defender whereas jordan never has been. that said what you gain there might be lost anyway in actual games lost during the season.

[Wammy Giveaway]

With the ejection of DeAndre Jordan last night, I've changed my stance.

For those who are puzzled, here is how I define a superstar:

1. All-Star Selection - Either voted in by the fans or voted in by coaches (Speaking of which, gotta get my vote in today)
2. League MVP
3. Finals MVP - Requires winning the championship. For example, Kawhi Leonard.
4. Ejection - Whenever a player realizes he's ejected from a game, he understands the NBA owns him. Getting ejected means he has to change his ways. When Griffin was forcefully ejected vs. Warriors in 2013, he stormed back with a trio of 30 points plus games in a row, and saved himself from being traded. It's not just the adversity, it's the integrity. DJ's primary fault was being a complainer. With him ejected for it, he now understands that he can't do this anymore. He's ready to apologize to his team for his actions and come back in a huge way. For example, I predict he will have his first ever triple double this year. Being a superstar requires leadership and maturity, and ejections usually assist in that. DeAndre Jordan is ready to come to Jesus.

The Big 3 of Paul-Griffin-Jordan is legit. I'm no longer calling the Clippers a fake Big 3 anymore.

[madmaxmedia]

probably by a lot. dwight is an intelligent defender whereas jordan never has been. that said what you gain there might be lost anyway in actual games lost during the season.

Interesting...I agree with that. I voted yes since it's hypothetical, if I was really on the hook to make the decision I would do way more diligence and probably end up with no for any number of reasons (health, etc.)

Hey wouldn't it be hilarious if we did a 3-way trade and DJ ended up in DALLAS?

[Wammy Giveaway]

As both are mired in trade rumors, and the Clippers could enter into either of these talks, which center would you agree with as the better of the two?