Why do we have to trade our core?

[SOUL]

Strap in boys, this is a long post.

This is a question I've been mulling over my head even before Skiles resigned.

Why are we so obsessed with trading Vuc, Payton, Oladipo, Hezonja, 11th Pick, and even AG in certain scenarios?

I'm leaving out the rare superstar scenarios, because obviously if a Cousins or Westbrook or Davis or something was on the trading block, we'd probably put most of our team on the block -- so would most teams.

But why are we so obsessed with bringing in players that are only Tier 2 stars and below that we can't nab in free agency? Again, strictly trades we're talking here -- I'm all about adding legit talent through free agency.

There are two truths of this roster so far:

1. Nobody is a superstar, obviously. It's easy to see when you have a LeBron or a Durant -- but we also have talented players that in a lot of cases have shown more in their first few years than the really good players we're trying to trade for. If Harkless, who did close to nothing while he was here still showed enough promise and upside without any results can be an impact player on a good playoff team, so can all of our young talent who have shown 5 x more since being here.

Don't get me started on players that didn't show much for 4 or 5 years that are impact players in the playoffs for several teams.

2. We've really yet to see the plan in full effect.

I don't know how people say this rebuild has failed and then argue that the young players need to be brought in slowly. It's a mutually exclusive thing. If we bring them in slowly, then saying the rebuild has failed cannot be true -- since our philosophy is to build a long term team with young talent and free agency where wins were not promised. Keep in mind, we had a really good chance to make the playoffs this year and just blew it. 35 wins with about 15 blown games.

A rebuild cannot be judged by years. I've seen people define the rebuild with the Vuc trade, but in my eyes it started with the Oladipo draft, then we had AG and Payton, and now Hezonja. When we wait several months to see these players play together, and in the grand scheme of things only play 10-11 games as a starting unit of players a lot of people consider our "future", how can you say with certainty that it's not going to work out?

I see a team in great shape -- we roll our dice on players that we've dedicated a lot of time, resources and scouting on. We see where that goes. We have obvious talent (which could range from all-star to impact bench) that will be traded if we cannot be brought over that hump by them, and we still have tons of cap space and picks. We're not in the Nets position.

Ever since Hennigan said this is the route he was taking, I'm rolling with it. If he said otherwise, I would've rolled with that as well and questioned moves/substitutions/acquisitions that went against that train of thought.

It just really surprises me the amount of people that back coaches over players. Of course if you have an obvious malcontent that is cancerous and not worth the trouble when you have a good coach, but we don't have those problem players here.

I think winning just to win is a dangerous proposition in a league like the NBA. If we consolidate talent that haven't blossomed fully yet for a shortened window talent and we're fat and happy for a season or two but ultimately not where we want to be, what purpose will that serve besides being temporarily content?

[SOUL]

By the way, I also argued against trading a lot of our players for seemingly no reason after the finals run, so it's not a young player bias.

[The Real Dalic]

I definitely do not want to trade any of our core unless it lands us a Griffin or George, neither are happening most likely though, so I would keep the team as is and either trade the pick or make the selection and sign impact free agents.

But people always want to trade what is no longer the shiny new thing, especially when we're losing, like when Oladipo was a rookie, you would be called a hater if you wanted to trade him then. . . Now, it feels like everyone has given up on him and want him out. Same with Payton from last year to this one. Hezonja will be next I'm sure.

[SOUL]

But people always want to trade what is no longer the shiny new thing, especially when we're losing, like when Oladipo was a rookie, you would be called a hater if you wanted to trade him then. . . Now, it feels like everyone has given up on him and want hin out. Same with Payton from last year to this one. Hezonja will be next I'm sure.

It's a wild idea to me to not support the players we have unless they're obvious Bennett level busts, especially trades that bring in parallel talent or talent that may be better at the moment but are wildcards a few years from now.

[The Real Dalic]

But people always want to trade what is no longer the shiny new thing, especially when we're losing, like when Oladipo was a rookie, you would be called a hater if you wanted to trade him then. . . Now, it feels like everyone has given up on him and want hin out. Same with Payton from last year to this one. Hezonja will be next I'm sure.

It's a wild idea to me to not support the players we have unless they're obvious Bennett level busts, especially trades that bring in parallel talent or talent that may be better at the moment but are wildcards a few years from now.

I agree, but our fanbase is weird in that we tend to hate on our players pretty regularly unless you are an undeniable star, or a fan favorite. But I will be suppoirting every player that we have on our team until they're no longer on our team. I would support some players even if they did leave, like Redick and Jameer.

There is no reason whatsoever to trade a core as young as ours that's been steadily improving every year, we have one of the brightest futures in league, just keep developing our players and add around them, unless you can get a Durant, of course.

We should be fine with some patience, none of our core, NONE, are even in their prime yet. . . Vuc is starting to get there, but he still hasn't reached his peak, imo. Let this team grow, mature, they'll be more than fine.

[SOUL]

Also to be specific, I'm not questioning criticism of our players because I certainly do my fair share of that, or even advocating a trade from players that we've literally given every chance to prove their worth with -- which only Vucevic would fit in that category just from years + playing time, but I still think he has a lot of value to our team, a really good contract for a big with offense, and hasn't exactly had the most fair shake on coaches and we haven't explored every position/role with him so again, there's so much to still find out about him.

I'm just asking why we can't run with this core because I see a lot of trades but not a lot of people advocating bringing back those 5/6 players.

[tiderulz]

I dont think we "have" to trade our core. But i havent seen anything from any player yet on the team that make them untouchable either.

[orlando1214]

I personally don't want to trade any of the core, especially now that Skiles is gone. I mean if a trade comes along that's too good to pass up, then you have to consider it, but I want to see what another coach can do with these guys. Rob has plenty of money to improve this team with free agency. Add talent and see how the team grows under the new coach. If things are not going well by the deadline next season, then make some deals.

[BadMofoPimp]

I never thought Henny would trade his core and still don't think it will happen. It is other fans wet dreams about building their superteams like they see it done on NBA2k.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The Real Dalic Nailed it. I think most of it is driven by the fact the interest in players have a shelf life with some people. They aren't "new " anymore That's why you see lots of proposed trades for lateral talent imo. It usually happens in year 3 and I'm wiling to bet that its coming from transient "fans". I don't want to trade any players from our core either but I also don't view them as untouchable, but I guess that falls under the superstar scenario which we're leaving out in this discussion.

Also, I want to win games now and I want the players that can best put us there playing. That's why I didn't mind Fournier playing over Heznonja as he was out played by Evan. I think he(Fournier) should be included as part of the core for as long as he's on this team considering his age and the fact that he was one of our best players.

[PennytoShaq]

Actually I think the reason some of us want to trade a few guys is so far it does not appear that they fit together that well. Gordon, Elfrid, Mario and Oladipo on the floor together is very athletic, but extremely poor at shooting for example.

[Jiwol]

Actually I think the reason some of us want to trade a few guys is so far it does not appear that they fit together that well. Gordon, Elfrid, Mario and Oladipo on the floor together is very athletic, but extremely poor at shooting for example.

Yep, the pieces don't fit. Someone needs to go soon. If you want Payton as your PG, you should have true shooting guard with awesome long distance accuracy - that's not Oladipo, rather Evan or Mario. On the other hand, if you want defense/offense mix that Dipo provides, you need to get rid of Payton and forget about playing AG at 3. If you want to keep Vuc, you better look for bruiser type of PF. Which demands moving AG to SF. And so on.

[mhectorgato]

But people always want to trade what is no longer the shiny new thing, especially when we're losing, like when Oladipo was a rookie, you would be called a hater if you wanted to trade him then. . . Now, it feels like everyone has given up on him and want hin out. Same with Payton from last year to this one. Hezonja will be next I'm sure.

It's a wild idea to me to not support the players we have unless they're obvious Bennett level busts, especially trades that bring in parallel talent or talent that may be better at the moment but are wildcards a few years from now.

I support our players, I just don't support the "lets wait and see" approach. What if after 1.5 contracts it becomes obvious that we're nothing but a perennial 8 or 7th seed? Then we'll be 6+ years from Dwight, enduring a miserable run with nothing really to show for it.

Or what if all our guys take a step forward - are we going to give them all big extensions? Judging by past history, probably not. So then we'll lose one or more key pieces and take step backwards, yet again.

I wasn't expecting a quick rebuild, but I wasn't expecting 5 seasons to even make it back to a .500 season either.

At this point, we have no guarantees that we're better off in the long run than the 76ers.

I would rather the FO be proactive, and possibly make a misstep, that just sitting on it's hands and do effectively nothing to take the team to the next tier.

[mhectorgato]

Actually I think the reason some of us want to trade a few guys is so far it does not appear that they fit together that well. Gordon, Elfrid, Mario and Oladipo on the floor together is very athletic, but extremely poor at shooting for example.

Yep, the pieces don't fit. Someone needs to go soon. If you want Payton as your PG, you should have true shooting guard with awesome long distance accuracy - that's not Oladipo, rather Evan or Mario. On the other hand, if you want defense/offense mix that Dipo provides, you need to get rid of Payton and forget about playing AG at 3. If you want to keep Vuc, you better look for bruiser type of PF. Which demands moving AG to SF. And so on.

Agree completely.

Part of our problem is that we don't have *that* piece to build around yet. If you have a player or two that you would never trade, then the could build a team around them. Look at OKC with their big men (Kanter to a lesser extent) to compliment a soft Durant on defense, and good defensive PF in Serge. But they also have their muscle Having Adams to be their pure defense big man - even if he doesn't do much on offense, compliments the team. Same with Jordan on Clips. Thomson on the Cavs.

We are all a team of compliments. We don't have *the* player to build around. I don't think we have a team of role players, but we also don't have any "the man" guys either.

Who do you build your team around AG? VO? EP? MH?

[J the Drafter]

Actually I think the reason some of us want to trade a few guys is so far it does not appear that they fit together that well. Gordon, Elfrid, Mario and Oladipo on the floor together is very athletic, but extremely poor at shooting for example.

I you want to play Payton with poor shooters in Gordon and Oladipo, run a scheme that emphasizes cutting. That would exploit Payton's passing and AG and VO's athleticism.

[OrlandO]

We only have to worry about trading young players with potential when we encounter logjams or they start getting overpaid. No reason to trade young talent on rookie deals if there's room on the bench. If some have to develop off the bench because there's a better player in front of them so be it. But we must fill our starting unit with some quality free agents. Can't just keep handing out big contracts to young players who haven't proven they're worth it... that's how you end up farming a young player for another team. We've got to be able to get a discount on some of our developing players. For example, Vuc's deal gives us flexibility to use him as a contributing bench player if we want... we just don't have a better center to play in front of him right now. But if we luck into one soon, our center rotation would be locked up for the next few years. It's a shame we might have to trade one of fournier or oladipo... had skiles not treated fournier like his son we could have probably re-signed him to a team friendly deal with a sixth man role in mind. Instead he will probably get paid more than he's worth right now and that could force us to choose between the two within a year.

[Viper1500]

The only valuable pieces I am up for trading is our 11th pick and Payton. I am not a fan of a pg who cannot shoot. And I think the 11th pick has little value to us. This team is already struggling on giving out minutes. If the pick is used I really hope it's on a PG or backup center.


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[MagicMadness]

I'd be fine with keeping our core and bolstering the bench. But, I'd be just as fine with a package trade as well, like the one Viper mentioned.

What I like is the huge amount of flexibility Hennigan has created. We've got at least 5 above-average prospects, tons of cap space, and another lottery pick coming up. Outside of hiring a new head coach, we're in a really good position heading into the summer. Hennigan could almost make zero moves and we'd still be fighting for a playoff spot next season.

Organic growth is paying off, whether some want to believe it or not!

[fendilim]

Fit.

[SOUL]

Perceived fit or actual fit? We don't know what we have fully yet. I feel like people watch the Warriors and go "we don't have that!" but news flash, 29 teams don't have that.