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Colbinii wrote:I love these threads. Compare two players, and then bash one of them 6 feet under the ground. It doesn't matter what anyone says on these forums, you have already made up your mind on who is better.

LeBron is a better defensive anchor.

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I love these threads. Compare two players, and then bash one of them 6 feet under the ground. It doesn't matter what anyone says on these forums, you have already made up your mind on who is better.

LeBron is a better defensive anchor.

Is that any different than any other comparison? People just defend the guy they like more anyways.

Colbinii wrote:

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I love these threads. Compare two players, and then bash one of them 6 feet under the ground. It doesn't matter what anyone says on these forums, you have already made up your mind on who is better.

LeBron is a better defensive anchor.

Is that any different than any other comparison? People just defend the guy they like more anyways.

Bashing and defending are two different things.
Michael Jordan was a better man defender in his prime, but to act like he never gambled on steals is blasphemy.
In today's NBA, I would take LeBron anchoring my defense over Michael Jordan's 1 on 1 defense.

Dr Spaceman wrote:LeBron is the better defensive player and it's by a substantial margin IMO.

ShreddedBoi wrote:I never said he didn't gamble, just never made the stupid mistakes that LeBron did like refusing to box out and missing rotations, only to blame his teammates.

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:LeBron is the better defensive player and it's by a substantial margin IMO.

I'll presume the only time you watched Jordan when was he was on the Wizards.

Colbinii wrote:

ShreddedBoi wrote:I never said he didn't gamble, just never made the stupid mistakes that LeBron did like refusing to box out and missing rotations, only to blame his teammates.

LeBron also anchored a defense that shut down one of the greatest offenses of all-time. He held them to a 65 oRTG in games 5/6/7 in the 4th quarter.

Sam Smith, The Jordan Rules wrote:There were some very good reasons for the team’s success, especially the defense, like the terrorizing fireman’s drill the Bulls had become adept at. Jackson, who pieced it together from the teachings of Bill Fitch, Red Holzman, and Hubie Brown, is a great teacher , and the Bulls worked on it in almost every practice. Four players go against four, with four waiting on defense up the court each time to pick up the players who have penetrated the first group. It’s a scramble to get to the basket, and players learn about fighting pressure, but even more about playing midcourt defense. And midcourt is where the Bulls beat teams. The area from the free-throw line to midcourt is where plays begin, and that’s where the Bulls take teams out of their offense, often turning the mistakes into transition slam dunks by Pippen , Jordan, or Grant. Grant’s speed allows him to double and then retreat to his man, and Jordan and Pippen are the riverboat gamblers of the NBA, sharp dudes who will steal your underwear off you, but carefully. Jordan gambles in games the way he gambles off the court— on everything— and Pippen, though more conservative off the court, has a mean streak in him and likes the challenge of the chase. Together, they look like an octopus coming at a ball handler. And Cartwright is inside, if not to block any shots, then to create fear and loathing with his flailing elbows and bruising body, while Paxson is deadly spotting up for his shot. And while there seemed to be resentment of the Bulls around the Eastern Conference, some of the players saw something else.

Sam Smith, The Jordan Rules wrote:Despite the victory, Pippen was furious. He had taken just 6 shots, and he was blaming both the triangle offense and Jordan’s reversion to a one-man game. Afterward, he was so incensed he threw his shoes in the garbage. And when he left the locker room that night, he promised Grant, “I’m shootin’ against Miami.”

Jordan had scored 46, but the real hero of the game had once again been the pressure defense.

“Earlier in the season, people asked me if I thought the Bulls were better,” said Brendan Malone, the Pistons’ chief advance scout and astute bench assistant. “I really didn’t think so, but they are. Their defensive intensity has picked up. They’re probably now the best pressing team in the league.”

Of course, Jordan was a major part of that, as was Pippen . But they had the best jobs. Cartwright’s role was to stay back and zone the area under the basket while Jordan and Pippen crept into the passing lanes for steals. This strategy leads to breakaways and crowd-pleasing slams, but they’re often made possible by Paxson, whose job it is to turn the guard to one side so Jordan can jump in and force a bad pass, or Grant can come from behind as he’s racing downcourt, bothering the man with the ball.

“He’s the intrepid one,” said Bach of Grant. “He’s the one who has to meet the ball on the double -team and then sometimes a second time as he goes downcourt, and then he has to find a man to guard and rebound. He’s the one who’s really made our press. We always had the ability to trap a ball handler with two guards, but he’s given us the addition of a big man able to do that. So now you’ve got Pippen at about six-eight and Horace at six-ten and Michael at six-six, and they’re roaring around the court in a triangle of defenders and interceptors, anchored by Paxson in the guard position and Cartwright in the back. And it works by the boldness of Phil in his calls.”

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

ShreddedBoi wrote:I never said he didn't gamble, just never made the stupid mistakes that LeBron did like refusing to box out and missing rotations, only to blame his teammates.

LeBron also anchored a defense that shut down one of the greatest offenses of all-time. He held them to a 65 oRTG in games 5/6/7 in the 4th quarter.

He anchored it, by allowing Draymond Green to get a bunch of wide open 3s in the first half. Definitely.

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:LeBron is the better defensive player and it's by a substantial margin IMO.

I'll presume the only time you watched Jordan when was he was on the Wizards.

Colbinii wrote:

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
LeBron also anchored a defense that shut down one of the greatest offenses of all-time. He held them to a 65 oRTG in games 5/6/7 in the 4th quarter.

He anchored it, by allowing Draymond Green to get a bunch of wide open 3s in the first half. Definitely.

Right, because Michael Jordan never let anyone on the opposing team score. LeBron wasn't on Green most of the 1st half either.

Also,

ShreddedBoi wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:LeBron is the better defensive player and it's by a substantial margin IMO.

I'll presume the only time you watched Jordan when was he was on the Wizards.

Posts like this reinforce my initial post in this thread. If you are here to discuss, add something useful. This board is filled with too many basketball-savvy minds to waste their time on crap like this.

2klegend wrote:Jordan but it's close. Honestly they are about equal. Strength in each can be argued. Jordan is a disruptive defender and that doesn't show on the boxscore. He can be everywhere trapping and giving opponents trouble. Lebron is at his best when he rotates to help out because of his size and strength. He's like Green in that regard but Lebron is not a disruptive defender like Jordan. When Jordan going at you from the weak side, the ball handlers got nervous and made mistake due to fear of his quick hand.

Quotatious wrote:

2klegend wrote:Jordan but it's close. Honestly they are about equal. Strength in each can be argued. Jordan is a disruptive defender and that doesn't show on the boxscore. He can be everywhere trapping and giving opponents trouble. Lebron is at his best when he rotates to help out because of his size and strength. He's like Green in that regard but Lebron is not a disruptive defender like Jordan. When Jordan going at you from the weak side, the ball handlers got nervous and made mistake due to fear of his quick hand.

I would say Jordan's ability to be a disruptor shows in a boxscore (huge steal totals) a lot more than LeBron's ability to be a disruptor.

I think Michael is better offensively (definitely a superior isolation scorer, and that's what matters most) and LeBron better defensively (bigger, more versatile, and IMO equal help defender despite generally lower steal numbers). Ultimately, offense matters more than defense for a perimeter player, so I give MJ the edge, but it's close (neither the gap on offense in MJ's favor or the gap on defense in LBJ's favor are big, actually there's no much of a "gap" either way).

The fact that the Bulls improved defensively after Jordan retired in '93 (they were better defensively in '94 without MJ than they were with him in '93) is a big question mark. Jordan seemed to be very good defensively in '93 based on my eye-test, but the results aren't that impressive, in terms of the Bulls defense as a team.