Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons

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Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#1 » by trex_8063 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:40 pm

Not sure if something like this has been done before. I feel like someone mentioned something similar (Elgee? drza?), though I don’t think they took it to any extensive degree. At any rate I didn’t find a thread about it. So…..

PER and WS/48 are stats we routinely use in comparing players of different eras. As such, what became a tiny bit of a concern for me are the trends we see in certain eras where no one appears to distance themselves very far from the pack (as measured by PER or WS/48), relative to what is customary in recent years.

This is most noticeable for a few years in the late 60’s and very early 70’s, though it’s also noticeable throughout the 70’s---where no one (except Kareem) even approaches the PER and WS/48 levels we routinely see multiple players hit in recent years---as well as the early 80’s.

Just a few examples of what I’m talking about:
*in ‘69 Jerry West had the league’s best PER, at 22.32…….this would have been well outside the top 10 last year.
**the league leaders in both ‘68 and ‘70 were both <25 PER’s, and would have been good for only 10th in the league last year. In '67 the league leading PER was 26.51 (would have been 5th last year).
***in ‘71, ‘72, ‘77-’79, no one aside from Kareem managed a PER >25 (in four of those years no one else managed >24).
****in ‘69 Willis Reed had the league’s best WS/48 at .2268 (good enough for only 8th last season).
*****in ‘70 Walt Frazier had the league’s best WS/48 at .2361 (good enough for 7th last season).
******The league best WS/48 every year of the early 80’s would have only been good enough for somewhere around 7th-9th place last year. Most of the league-best PER’s in those same years would do about the same.
And so on….

There may be a number of explanations for these trends. I’ll sport a few:
1) Perhaps there simply weren’t any players good enough (except for Kareem) to distance themselves from the mean as much as we’ve become accustomed to. It’s possible, and as such the data I’ll share below may simply be punishing players for so exceeding their peers and rewarding others for NOT exceeding their peers as much. Though personally I’m a little skeptical of this explanation (at least as a sole explanation), particularly for the late 60’s (and circa-1970): note that Wilt is still in his prime thru the late 60’s (many consider ‘67 his peak, in fact); West peaks somewhere in ‘65-’67 according to most, and is in his prime at least thru ‘72; Robertson is in his prime thru ‘68 at least. Players like Willis Reed and Walt Frazier are hitting their primes (or peaks) around the time Robertson and Wilt are exiting their primes.
2) Perhaps there were factors pertaining to game philosophy/game-play and/or rules which hindered an elite player’s ability to distance himself a great deal from the herd. EDIT: I'm starting to think pace might be one of these factors, as the seasons with the greatest parity tend to be around the years with the fastest league-avg pace. It's long been a "criticism" or comment regarding using Per 100 Possession numbers to compare stats across eras, as people have noted that a superstar's shot attempts [for example] do NOT increase in a linear fashion with team pace (it seems that past a certain pace threshold, there will [necessarily] be a certain degree of "shot indiscretion" [as to who is taking said shots] in order to maintain that fast pace. This will DIRECTLY EFFECT [read: lower] THE LEAGUE-BEST PLAYER EFFICIENCY RATINGS in particular.
3) Stars were somewhat routinely playing larger minutes in those days; as these are rate metrics, perhaps simple fatigue is a factor in reducing the high-end PER's or WS/48's.
4) Perhaps the “average” and maybe more so the “below average” player in some of these years were generally better (relative to era) than the average or below average players in more recent years. For instance, maybe teams circa-1970 didn’t have to populate the last few roster spots with true “garbage time” players.
This is the theory that it presently intriguing me, fwiw. Note, for instance, that the NBA expanded by 70%!! (from 10 teams to 17 teams) in a span of just four years between the ‘67 season and the ‘71 season---the most rapid expansion in league history---in spite of the fact that these years EXACTLY coincide with the emergence of a competing splinter league (the ABA). In fact, the majority of that expansion occurred AFTER the ABA was beginning to make an imprint and attract relevant talents. Yet even though the ABA was attracting these relevant talents, the NBA still felt there was a sufficient untapped talent pool to justify continued expansion in these years. If this theory is at all correct, that would indeed suggest that the lower tier talents in the league during the late 60’s (fading into the early 70’s) were better (relative to era anyway) than the lower tier talents in the league presently…..which would make the mean/average player (as measured by PER or WS/48) more formidable, and thus more difficult to greatly exceed.

Idk, just postulating; feel free to discuss.

At any rate, thinking on this stuff persuaded me to calculate some rough standard deviations for both PER and WS/48 for each season going back to ‘52. And then from that, I went on to create a scaled model for PER and WS/48 (similar I suppose to the scaled RAPM’s that Doc figured up). And just to make sure I wasn’t overly skewing the results, I did not sample only higher percentile players when calculating the standard deviations. I also sampled players from percentiles near the mean, as well as percentiles well below the mean.

I thought some may be interested in seeing the top 100 or so greatest scaled rs PER’s and WS/48’s of all-time. (I’ve run nearly 170 thoughtfully selected player seasons, so I’m pretty sure I didn’t miss anyone who would crack the following lists).
I’ll get around to posting the best scaled playoff PER’s and WS/48’s soon. EDIT: Oh, and I'll also try to get around to posting a list for ABA's scaled PER and WS/48.

Will comment more once people have had a chance to digest.
EDIT: Updated to include ABA player seasons (highlighted in violet-blue). UPDATED to include '20 season.


Top 100(ish) Scaled rs PER’s
Spoiler:
1. ‘72 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 31.80
2. ‘77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 31.47
3. ‘78 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 31.30
4. ‘89 Michael Jordan - 31.27
5. ‘91 Michael Jordan - 31.13
6. ‘64 Wilt Chamberlain - 31.07
7. ‘63 Wilt Chamberlain - 30.89
8. ‘16 Stephen Curry - 30.70
9. ‘93 Michael Jordan - 30.61
10. ‘76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 30.59
11. ‘10 Lebron James - 30.51
12. '76 Julius Erving - 30.44
t13. ‘59 Bob Pettit - 30.42
t13. ‘90 Michael Jordan - 30.42
15. ‘73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 30.41
16. ‘62 Wilt Chamberlain - 30.39
17. ‘88 Michael Jordan - 30.24
18. ‘13 Lebron James - 30.23
19. ‘94 David Robinson - 30.11
20. ‘87 Michael Jordan - 29.98
21. ‘99 Shaquille O’Neal - 29.97
22. ‘12 Lebron James - 29.95
23. ‘71 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 29.94
24. ‘66 Wilt Chamberlain - 29.92
25. ‘01 Shaquille O’Neal - 29.68
26. ‘15 Anthony Davis - 29.62
27. ‘00 Shaquille O’Neal - 29.59
28. ‘67 Wilt Chamberlain - 29.42
29. ‘09 Lebron James - 29.40
t30. ‘75 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 29.38
t30. '17 Russell Westbrook - 29.38
32. ‘03 Tracy McGrady - 29.31
33. '20 Giannis Antetokounmpo - 29.21
34. ‘65 Wilt Chamberlain - 29.19
35. ‘02 Shaquille O’Neal - 29.15
t36. ‘04 Kevin Garnett - 29.13
t36. ‘98 Shaquille O’Neal - 29.13
38. ‘56 Bob Pettit - 28.99
39. ‘14 Kevin Durant - 28.98
t40. ‘97 Karl Malone - 28.92
t40. ‘96 David Robinson - 28.92
42. ‘96 Michael Jordan - 28.86
43. '19 Giannis Antetokounmpo - 28.85
44. ‘57 Bob Pettit - 28.77
45. ‘92 Michael Jordan - 28.69
46. ‘07 Dwyane Wade - 28.63
47. ‘75 Bob McAdoo - 28.62
48. ‘53 George Mikan - 28.59
t49. ‘03 Shaquille O’Neal - 28.58
t49. '19 James Harden - 28.58
51. ‘91 Charles Barkley - 28.51
52. ‘14 Lebron James - 28.49
53. ‘92 David Robinson - 28.43
t54. ‘08 Lebron James - 28.34
t54. ‘74 Bob McAdoo - 28.34
56. '19 Anthony Davis - 28.31
57. '18 James Harden - 28.29
58. ‘09 Dwyane Wade - 28.27
59. ‘61 Elgin Baylor - 28.26
60. ‘60 Wilt Chamberlain - 28.25
61. ‘98 Karl Malone - 28.24
62. ‘67 Oscar Robertson - 28.18
t63. ‘98 David Robinson - 28.17
t63. ‘76 John Drew - 28.17
65. ‘95 David Robinson - 28.11
66. ‘93 Hakeem Olajuwon - 28.07
67. ‘94 Shaquille O’Neal - 28.05
t68. ‘82 Moses Malone - 28.04
t68. ‘11 Lebron James - 28.04
70. ‘05 Kevin Garnett - 28.01
t71. ‘15 Russell Westbrook - 28.00
t71. '75 Julius Erving - 28.00
73. ‘74 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 27.96
74. ‘09 Chris Paul - 27.93
75. ‘85 Larry Bird - 27.83
t76. ‘79 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 27.81
t76. '69 Connie Hawkins - 27.81* (*only 47-game sample, though 11 of that was after coming back from injury, clearly playing at MUCH lower level than pre-injury)
78. ‘61 Wilt Chamberlain - 27.79
79. ‘97 Michael Jordan - 27.78
80. '69 Rick Barry - 27.69* (*35-game sample)
81. '70 Spencer Haywood - 27.63

82. ‘95 Shaquille O’Neal - 27.61
83. ‘16 Kevin Durant - 27.56
84. ‘08 Chris Paul - 27.56
85. ‘70 Jerry West - 27.54
86. ‘10 Dwyane Wade - 27.53
87. ‘80 Julius Erving - 27.49
88. '18 Anthony Davis - 27.47
89. ‘80 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 27.41
t90. ‘06 Lebron James - 27.36
t90. ‘06 Dirk Nowitzki - 27.36
t90. ‘83 Moses Malone - 27.36
93. ‘07 Dirk Nowitzki - 27.35
94. ‘58 Bob Pettit - 27.34
95. '73 Julius Erving - 27.31
96. ‘06 Kobe Bryant - 27.28
97. ‘74 Bob Lanier - 27.26
98. ‘57 Neil Johnston - 27.25
t99. ‘64 Oscar Robertson - 27.21
t99. ‘54 George Mikan - 27.21
101. ‘13 Kevin Durant - 27.20
102. ‘87 Magic Johnson - 27.19
103. '18 Lebron James - 27.18
104. ‘65 Oscar Robertson - 27.17
105. '68 Connie Hawkins - 27.15
106. ‘97 Shaquille O’Neal - 27.14
107. ‘82 Julius Erving - 27.09
t108. ‘85 Michael Jordan - 27.06
t108. ‘89 Charles Barkley - 27.06
110. ‘91 David Robinson - 27.05
t111. ‘52 George Mikan - 27.02
t111. ‘89 Magic Johnson - 27.02
t111. ‘68 Wilt Chamberlain - 27.02
t114. ‘15 Stephen Curry - 27.00
t114. ‘16 Russell Westbrook - 27.00
116. ‘16 Lebron James - 26.97



Top 100(ish) Scaled rs WS/48’s
Spoiler:
1. ‘71 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .3304
2. ‘67 Wilt Chamberlain - .3232
3. ‘77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .3223
t4. ‘73 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .3192
t4. ‘91 Michael Jordan - .3192
6. ‘10 Lebron James - .3190
7. ‘72 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .3151
8. ‘16 Stephen Curry - .3118
9. ‘88 Michael Jordan - .3114
10. ‘94 David Robinson - .3072
11. ‘13 Lebron James - .3064
12. ‘96 Michael Jordan - .3061
13. ‘09 Lebron James - .3053
14. ‘78 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .3049
15. ‘64 Wilt Chamberlain - .3030
16. ‘95 David Robinson - .3029
17. ‘93 Michael Jordan - .3000
18. ‘07 Dirk Nowitzki - .2995
19. ‘89 Michael Jordan - .2994
20. ‘00 Shaquille O’Neal - .2990
21. ‘14 Kevin Durant - .2987
22. ‘12 Lebron James - .2952
23. ‘06 Dirk Nowitzki - .2942
24. ‘92 Michael Jordan - .2931
t25. ‘76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .2930
t25. ‘08 Chris Paul - .2930
27. ‘97 Michael Jordan - .2920
28. ‘75 Bob McAdoo - .2918
29. ‘15 Stephen Curry - .2913
30. ‘04 Kevin Garnett - .2906
31. ‘84 Adrian Dantley - .2888
32. ‘90 Michael Jordan - .2886
33. ‘66 Wilt Chamberlain - .2884
34. ‘56 Larry Foust - .2864
35. ‘03 Tracy McGrady - .2853
36. ‘86 Larry Bird - .2833
37. ‘74 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .2828
t38. ‘02 Shaquille O’Neal - .2822
t38. '71 Zelmo Beaty - .2822
40. ‘83 Moses Malone - .2813
41. ‘09 Chris Paul - .2810
42. ‘98 David Robinson - .2809
43. ‘62 Wilt Chamberlain - .2806
44. ‘96 David Robinson - .2804
45. ‘85 Larry Bird - .2803
46. ‘87 Magic Johnson - .2799
47. ‘56 Neil Johnston - .2792
48. ‘13 Kevin Durant - .2775
49. ‘15 Anthony Davis - .2772
t50. ‘02 Tim Duncan - .2770
t50. ‘65 Jerry West - .2770
52. ‘92 David Robinson - .2768
53. ‘11 Lebron James - .2764
54. ‘70 Walt Frazier - .2763
55. ‘97 Karl Malone - .2760
56. ‘12 Chris Paul - .2757
57. ‘82 Julius Erving - .2754
t58. ‘05 Kevin Garnett - .2739
t58. ‘63 Wilt Chamberlain - .2739
60. ‘70 Jerry West - .2738
t61. ‘89 Magic Johnson - .2737
t61. ‘13 Chris Paul - .2737
63. ‘90 Magic Johnson - .2736
t64. ‘08 Kevin Garnett - .2731
t64. ‘15 Chris Paul - .2731
66. ‘68 Wilt Chamberlain - .2725
67. ‘16 Kawhi Leonard - .2724
t68. ‘14 Chris Paul - .2723
t68. ‘90 Charles Barkley - .2723
70. ‘03 Shaquille O’Neal - .2720
71. '20 Giannis Antetokounmpo - .2718
72. ‘59 Kenny Sears - .2715
73. ‘79 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .2714
74. ‘06 Chauncey Billups - .2710
t75. ‘57 Neil Johnston - .2706
t75. '68 Connie Hawkins - .2706
77. ‘80 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .2705
78. '19 Giannis Antetokounmpo - .2704
79. ‘05 Tim Duncan - .2703
80. ‘98 Karl Malone - .2702
t81. ‘03 Dirk Nowitzki - .2701
t81. ‘67 Oscar Robertson - .2701
83. ‘03 Tim Duncan - .2699
84. ‘08 Amar’e Stoudemire - .2698
85. ‘75 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - .2696
86. '17 Kevin Durant - .2686
87. ‘01 Shaquille O’Neal - .2684
88. ‘55 Larry Foust - .2681
89. ‘05 Amar’e Stoudemire - .2680
90. ‘93 Charles Barkley - .2676
91. ‘15 James Harden - .2675
92. ‘66 Jerry West - .2673
93. ‘14 Lebron James - .2663
94. ‘11 Dwight Howard - .2657
t95. ‘70 Willis Reed - .2651
t95. ‘08 Chauncey Billups - .2651
97. ‘16 Kevin Durant - .2649
98. ‘84 Bernard King - .2646
99. ‘04 Tim Duncan - .2645
100. ‘07 Manu Ginobili - .2635
101. ‘83 Sidney Moncrief - .2631
t102. ‘91 David Robinson - .2628
t102. ‘93 Karl Malone - .2628
104. ‘87 Michael Jordan - .2626
105. ‘00 Karl Malone - .2615
106. '11 Chris Paul - .2614
107. ‘64 Oscar Robertson - .2610
t108. ‘84 Larry Bird - .2608
t108. ‘59 Bob Pettit - .2608
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#2 » by penbeast0 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:00 pm

trex_8063 wrote:...Note, for instance, that the NBA expanded by 70%!! (from 10 teams to 17 teams) in a span of just four years between the ‘67 season and the ‘71 season---the most rapid expansion in league history---in spite of the fact that these years EXACTLY coincide with the emergence of a competing splinter league (the ABA). In fact, the majority of that expansion occurred AFTER the ABA was beginning to make an imprint and attract relevant talents. Yet even though the ABA was attracting these relevant talents, the NBA still felt there was a sufficient untapped talent pool to justify continued expansion in these years. If this theory is at all correct, that would indeed suggest that the lower tier talents in the league during the late 60’s (fading into the early 70’s) were better (relative to era anyway) than the lower tier talents in the league presently…..which would make the mean/average player (as measured by PER or WS/48) more formidable, and thus more difficult to greatly exceed.

Idk, just postulating; feel free to discuss....


Through the mid 60s, quite probably true as the 8 team league lasted from roughly 1950 to 65 before expanding. I'd be a lot less sanguine about this possibility into the 70s with that rapid expansion.

And to say that the NBA "felt that there was a sufficient untapped talent pool to justify continued expansion" seems to me to be almost irrelevant to everything I've read about the reason for this expansion. It was all about cutting off potential markets to the ABA and not quality of basketball driven at all from everything I've read from this time.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#3 » by trex_8063 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:08 am

penbeast0 wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:...Note, for instance, that the NBA expanded by 70%!! (from 10 teams to 17 teams) in a span of just four years between the ‘67 season and the ‘71 season---the most rapid expansion in league history---in spite of the fact that these years EXACTLY coincide with the emergence of a competing splinter league (the ABA). In fact, the majority of that expansion occurred AFTER the ABA was beginning to make an imprint and attract relevant talents. Yet even though the ABA was attracting these relevant talents, the NBA still felt there was a sufficient untapped talent pool to justify continued expansion in these years. If this theory is at all correct, that would indeed suggest that the lower tier talents in the league during the late 60’s (fading into the early 70’s) were better (relative to era anyway) than the lower tier talents in the league presently…..which would make the mean/average player (as measured by PER or WS/48) more formidable, and thus more difficult to greatly exceed.

Idk, just postulating; feel free to discuss....


Through the mid 60s, quite probably true as the 8 team league lasted from roughly 1950 to 65 before expanding. I'd be a lot less sanguine about this possibility into the 70s with that rapid expansion.

And to say that the NBA "felt that there was a sufficient untapped talent pool to justify continued expansion" seems to me to be almost irrelevant to everything I've read about the reason for this expansion. It was all about cutting off potential markets to the ABA and not quality of basketball driven at all from everything I've read from this time.


Yeah, fair enough. I recall reading something similar, actually. Nonetheless, I think there's a LOT to suggest there was a tremendous untapped talent pool around 1965-67, and that it was probably around 1970 or so before they were "caught up", if you get what I mean.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#4 » by BasketballFan7 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:58 am

Bob McAdoo comes out looking great. A couple of monster seasons. What was his game like?
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#5 » by Quotatious » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:31 am

BasketballFan7 wrote:Bob McAdoo comes out looking great. A couple of monster seasons. What was his game like?

In his best years in mid 70s, he was a very athletic, quick bigman with a deadly face-up game, excellent jump-shot out to 18-20 feet, and ball-handling ability on a level that few bigs ever had. Very good rebounder and shot-blocker, but only about average defensively because he didn't seem to have great defensive fundamentals, not very strong for his position, and usually had to guard bigger, stronger players. He was like Durant playing PF/C. Not as good as KD, but not THAT far behind, either (I would say the gap between peak McAdoo, 1975, and peak Durant, 2014, is probably smaller than peak Jordan/Kobe gap).

Dude had seven consecutive 30+ point games in a playoff series (including a 50-point performance which can be found on YouTube) and averaged 37.4 ppg on about 2.5 to 3% above league-average TS%, against Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes frontcourt who anchored the best defense in the league in 1974-75 RS (McAdoo-led Braves definitely overachieved by pushing the Bullets to 7 games - Braves won 49 games on 2.16 SRS in the regular season, Bullets won 60 games on 6.53 SRS, so on paper the Bullets should've taken care of the Braves in 5 games at most, probably - it was similar to LeBron's Cavs pushing the Pistons to 7 games in '06). McAdoo was a phenomenal player at his peak.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#6 » by Samurai » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:49 am

Quotatious wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:Bob McAdoo comes out looking great. A couple of monster seasons. What was his game like?

In his best years in mid 70s, he was a very athletic, quick bigman with a deadly face-up game, excellent jump-shot out to 18-20 feet, and ball-handling ability on a level that few bigs ever had. Very good rebounder and shot-blocker, but only about average defensively because he didn't seem to have great defensive fundamentals, not very strong for his position, and usually had to guard bigger, stronger players. He was like Durant playing PF/C. Not as good as KD, but not THAT far behind, either (I would say the gap between peak McAdoo, 1975, and peak Durant, 2014, is probably smaller than peak Jordan/Kobe gap).

I never really considered that before, but I do see some similarity between McAdoo and KD. KD is obviously the better 3-point shooter but it isn't a fair comparison since McAdoo didn't grow up practicing 3's. As a defender, KD would not do as well if he played most of his games as a 5, and McAdoo was forced to play/guard a 5 through most of his prime; I think McAdoo was a better defender playing the 4. In terms of handles, McAdoo was very good for a 5, decent for a 4. If KD was playing the 5, his handles would be considered excellent, but is about average for a 3. The clearest similarity to me is that both McAdoo and Durant have the knack of being able to make tough shots and can shoot over anyone. Durant is listed as 6'9 but his length allows him to shoot his jumper over anyone. McAdoo was also listed as 6'9 but his high release point and jumping ability (he was a high jumper in college) allowed him to also shoot his jumper over anyone (including Gilmore and Kareem!). There was a SI article that once described him as the "quickest tall man in the game". McAdoo was a great outside shooter, as is KD. Good comparison!
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#7 » by Bad Gatorade » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:58 am

Hmm, very interesting post.

I too have deliberated the tendency for PER and WS/48 to deviate further from the mean in different eras. I feel like this scenario stems from two primary causes -

1. Quality in Players
Some people (e.g. Daniel Myers, the creator of BPM) have done research on era strength, and found that the 70s was genuinely a "low point" in NBA history (thanks to both expansion + the presence of the ABA):

Image

Some of these differences are due to expansions, but there appear to be genuine differences in league quality over time. Truly transcendent players are a rare commodity, and it's quite possible that further analysing era differences may shed some light on why players such as Magic/Bird have lower PERs, but are seen as all time greats - their PERs are being compared to superior players, and they will therefore deviate less from the mean.

Of course, this needs more granularity in analysis too - merely having "better" players doesn't always mean that top end PERs will be higher/lower. Adding two 15 PER players to a league is different to adding a 25 PER and a 5 PER player to the league - the latter will have more "superstars" despite the average league quality being the same. It's a tricky subject, but all of these advanced stats are comparative, and the comparative distribution of player quality will always change.

2. Quantity of players
According to PER/WS, there are likely to be more "high level players" now, because all stats are normalised to a certain mean, and there will be a higher number of players over a certain threshold (e.g. in a league with 400 players, you might have 150 above average players... which is clearly impossible in a league with only 100 players). The same percentage of players might be exceeding 20 PER, but if there are twice as many players in the league, then twice as many players will exceed this benchmark:

Image

This image details the PER of the 10th highest player in the league. Observing combined changes in the data allows us to infer the two causes and their impacts -

First, look at the 1960s - a few superstars (think: Wilt, Oscar, West, Baylor) entered the league. These superstars vastly pushed up the quality of the "average" player, and therefore made other players look comparatively worse. Think Bob Pettit - he had a clear PER dropoff after 1959, but his box score stats look pretty damn similar. There was probably just enough of this to create segregation between these true superstars and other "very good" players that were likely seen as PER superstars in a previous era.

After that, we see a HUGE increase with the ABA merger (aka, massive increase in players) and a gradual increase as player pool does the same. It's not a 1 for 1 relationship, for sure, but there'll always be some variability in this data due to the strict player quality. I can't really explain why 2010+ seems to have more players than, say, 2000 (only one new team entered the NBA in that time), but it could genuinely be the presence of just enough superstars in order to modify the results a bit. After all, any data point I select has a degree of arbitrariness and variation is to be expected.

Hopefully, there's enough merit in these thoughts to assist in player evaluation across eras.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#8 » by penbeast0 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:28 am

Quotatious wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:Bob McAdoo comes out looking great. A couple of monster seasons. What was his game like?

In his best years in mid 70s, he was a very athletic, quick bigman with a deadly face-up game, excellent jump-shot out to 18-20 feet, and ball-handling ability on a level that few bigs ever had. Very good rebounder and shot-blocker, but only about average defensively because he didn't seem to have great defensive fundamentals, not very strong for his position, and usually had to guard bigger, stronger players. He was like Durant playing PF/C. Not as good as KD, but not THAT far behind, either (I would say the gap between peak McAdoo, 1975, and peak Durant, 2014, is probably smaller than peak Jordan/Kobe gap).

Dude had seven consecutive 30+ point games in a playoff series (including a 50-point performance which can be found on YouTube) and averaged 37.4 ppg on about 2.5 to 3% above league-average TS%, against Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes frontcourt who anchored the best defense in the league in 1974-75 RS (McAdoo-led Braves definitely overachieved by pushing the Bullets to 7 games - Braves won 49 games on 2.16 SRS in the regular season, Bullets won 60 games on 6.53 SRS, so on paper the Bullets should've taken care of the Braves in 5 games at most, probably - it was similar to LeBron's Cavs pushing the Pistons to 7 games in '06). McAdoo was a phenomenal player at his peak.


More Dirk in Dirk's period after he developed a post up game than a superathletic big 3 like Durant, he played like a big not like a wing. McAdoo had a good post game as well as outstanding range for a big in the pre-3 point era. But he benefitted offensively and was hurt defensively by being a mismatch against most centers of the era and except when they had Elmore Smith, they paired him with a mobile active PF in Gar Heard much of the time.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#9 » by trex_8063 » Fri Sep 2, 2016 8:42 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:Bob McAdoo comes out looking great. A couple of monster seasons.


Yeah, he definitely comes out looking more impressive than his raw PER and WS/48 indicate. I would LOVE to see what he could do in today's league, where stretch-bigs are such a premium commodity......he'd fit right into that. Has ability to hit off the dribble so well, too. Could/would he commit to the team-oriented defenses of today? idk, but if so, he'd be a hell of a player. Perhaps a rich man's Chris Bosh, roughly???


And '67 Wilt suddenly looks a lot more credible as his peak season. I know it's the consensus peak year, but I've personally always given the nod to '64. This study has given me reason to look again at '67: 27th-best scaled PER (at a fairly impressive 29.42, marginally ahead of '09 Lebron and '03 McGrady) and 2nd-best scaled WS/48 (.3232).
'64 is still super-impressive too: 6th-best scaled PER (31.07) and 15th-best WS/48 (.3030).


But the real eye-popper for me in this whole study is Kareem. He just looks absolutely god-like: holds all of the top 3 best scaled PER's ever, 4 of the top 10, 5 of the top 20, 7 of the top 30, 9 of the top 70, and 10 of the top 80 EVER.
And looks nearly just as good in scaled WS/48: again holds 3 of the top 5 (including #1), again 4 of the top 10 and 5 of the top 20; 7 of the top 40, 9 of the top 80, and 10 of the top 90 EVER.

And if you look at the scaled playoff figures in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1474782

.....he again looks kinda god-like: has the #1 scaled playoff PER ever (by a substantial margin compared to any figure that comes from more than a single series), and again 3 of the top 5, 4 of the top 15, and 5 of the top 30.
In scaled playoff WS/48 he's tied for #2 all-time (tied for #1 among all figures that come from more than a single series), has 3 of the top 10, 4 of the top 25 and 6 of the top 60 spots ever.

No one else touches him in this study. Amazing....
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#10 » by trex_8063 » Fri Sep 2, 2016 8:49 pm

Bad Gatorade wrote:2. Quantity of players
According to PER/WS, there are likely to be more "high level players" now, because all stats are normalised to a certain mean, and there will be a higher number of players over a certain threshold (e.g. in a league with 400 players, you might have 150 above average players... which is clearly impossible in a league with only 100 players). The same percentage of players might be exceeding 20 PER, but if there are twice as many players in the league, then twice as many players will exceed this benchmark



wrt the bolded point, that's why I specifically sampled at certain percentiles of the player pool in calculating my standard deviations, instead of a set position/rank. i.e. I'd sample the player at the 90th percentile and 80th percentile (etc), as apposed to the guy ranked 10th in the league and the guy ranked 20th (etc).
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#11 » by trex_8063 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 3:12 am

Bumping because I've updated to include ABA player seasons (which are color-highlighted in lists). Erving makes a strong presence in the PER list (came close to the cut for WS/48 with his '76 season). '75 McGinnis is really close to making the cut for the PER list, fwiw.
And check out '71 Zelmo Beaty in the WS/48 list!
Also added '11 Chris Paul (toward end of WS/48 list), who I somehow missed in original posting.

Will update the post regarding playoff scaled PER and WS/48 shortly.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#12 » by RCM88x » Sun Jan 8, 2017 3:44 am

I am right to generally question the legitimacy of WS/48? To me, I look at some isolated situations, and I really question how the WS truly add up. Note, I do not know the formula for WS, I'm just questioning the value.

Some examples:

'15 Playoffs Lebron, WS/48: .173, the 2nd lowest of his career outside of his rookie year. This is despite the Cavs being without Kyrie and Love for a majority of the games, and Lebron essentially being the only player keeping the team from being blown out in every game.
'17 Westbrook, WS/48 of .214, his lowest since '14, despite him also being the only player keeping the team above water.
'17 Durant, WS/48 of .271, higher than '16, despite playing with Draymond, Thompson, Curry.... clearly the best supporting cast of his career.

I'm just generally unsure of how these values can be calculated, when I just feel that they are not very accurate for the true amount a player contributes for their team per/48.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#13 » by AdagioPace » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:34 am

Wow great work from Trex and also contributors below. This is gold for somebody moving his first steps in the analytical world. Just a question.: should we revaluate Kareem's peak given the strength of the 70s or have faith about its genuinity on the basis of his 80s seasons that could be used as a help for a sort of backwards extrapolation?
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#14 » by trex_8063 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:27 pm

AdagioPace wrote:Wow great work from Trex and also contributors below. This is gold for somebody moving his first steps in the analytical world. Just a question.: should we revaluate Kareem's peak given the strength of the 70s or have faith about its genuinity on the basis of his 80s seasons that could be used as a help for a sort of backwards extrapolation?



I would say yes to both, actually.
To a degree, I think backwards extrapolation has its place when trying to "bridge the gaps" between eras. Though absolutely some consideration of era strength needs to be made, at least when scrutinizing the data I'm presenting here. The above makes no real attempt to account for strength of era. It's merely trying to address the widely variable parity/disparity seen across different years or eras.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#15 » by Dr Spaceman » Sun Jan 8, 2017 7:12 pm

RCM88x wrote:I am right to generally question the legitimacy of WS/48? To me, I look at some isolated situations, and I really question how the WS truly add up. Note, I do not know the formula for WS, I'm just questioning the value.

Some examples:

'15 Playoffs Lebron, WS/48: .173, the 2nd lowest of his career outside of his rookie year. This is despite the Cavs being without Kyrie and Love for a majority of the games, and Lebron essentially being the only player keeping the team from being blown out in every game.
'17 Westbrook, WS/48 of .214, his lowest since '14, despite him also being the only player keeping the team above water.
'17 Durant, WS/48 of .271, higher than '16, despite playing with Draymond, Thompson, Curry.... clearly the best supporting cast of his career.

I'm just generally unsure of how these values can be calculated, when I just feel that they are not very accurate for the true amount a player contributes for their team per/48.


Because they are calculated as shares of wins i.e. You need wins to have win shares i.e. Better team, better win share scores and the reverse

More intuitively, they are an attempt to apportion credit for the current team record.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#16 » by trex_8063 » Thu May 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Bump.
Haven't updated this since '16, and had a request from a poster to do so. Have now updated to include '17-'19 player seasons. Will do the same for playoff scaled numbers soon.

There were seven player-seasons in the last three years that made the cut for rs Scaled PER:
'17 Russell Westbrook (tied for 30th)
'19 Giannis Antetokounmpo (42nd)
'19 James Harden (tied for 48th)
'19 Anthony Davis (55th)
'18 James Harden (56th)
'18 Anthony Davis (87th)
'18 Lebron James (102nd)

Only two additional player-seasons from the last three years made the cut for rs Scaled WS/48:
'19 Giannis Antetokounmpo (77th)
'17 Kevin Durant (85th)
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#17 » by GYK » Fri May 24, 2019 1:34 am

seasons player led the league in WS/48, PER, VORP, BPM, WS
2016 Curry
09-13 Lebron
2004 KG
2000 Shaq
1994 and 1995 David Robinson
1993 Jordan
88-91 Jordan
86 and 85 Bird
1976-1979 Kareem
if we were using the most known advanced stats these were the seasons the league had a clear cut best player since all five were available. 21 seasons since 73.
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Re: Greatest Reg Season Scaled PER and WS/48 Player Seasons 

Post#18 » by trex_8063 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 9:27 pm

Bumping because I've updated to include the '20 regular season. The only player from this season to be added to the listings [just went with the bottom of the existing listings as the lowest threshold] was Giannis (for both PER and WS/48).

His scaled PER from this year came in at #33 all-time, and his scaled WS/48 at #71. Harden was 2nd in the league in both stats, but in scaled terms he came in just below the bottom threshold in PER (and wasn't close in WS/48).

Will update the playoff thread once the playoffs are over.
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