Senior wrote:Dr Olajuwon wrote:trex_8063 wrote:
I agree; and there are still people who believe that was the case: that Hakeem essentially made DRob his b**** in every single meeting.
Even within that one series that has so defined their hierarchy, few remember that Robinson actually outplayed Hakeem in two of the six meetings (and quite badly in one of them).
Or that the Rockets won game 1 by a single point on wide open game winner by Robert Horry (because Rodman had gone rogue and totally left him alone on the perimeter), in a game in which Robinson's teammates also shot just 25% from 3pt range and just 60.9% from the FT line.
Or that in game 2 (which the Spurs lost by 10), Robinson actually had a fairly nice game.......but his teammates again tanked out at 22.2% (4/18) from 3pt range, while Hakeem's cast was a smokin' 47.4% (9/19) from 3pt range. If DRob's teammates shoot even semi-average on those same attempts (like 6/18, or 33.3%) and Hakeem's are just slightly less red-hot at say 7/19 (still a nice 36.8%), and this perhaps turns into a 2-pt Spurs victory.
That G1 the Spurs lost by 1, Robinson shot 5/17 from the field (.437 TS%)
Is anything I said about game 1 untrue?
While Robinson played poorly in that game, his teammates played poorly as well, and one or two of them made crucial errors in key moments in what turned out to be a 1-pt loss. True or untrue?
I'm merely pointing out that narratives would be much different had the Spurs won the series, and the absence of one Rodman error or 1-2 more made FT's by his teammates could have changed the outcome of that game (and perhaps the series).
Senior wrote:Dr Olajuwon wrote:In which two games did Robinson outplay Hakeem?
G1: 27/8/6/5 .53 TS% vs 21/9/2/2 .437 TS%
G2: 41/16/4/2 .609 TS% vs 32/12/2/1 .662 TS%
G3: 43/11/4/5 .637 TS% vs 29/9/4/1 .765 TS%
G4: 20/14/5/3 .395 TS% vs 20/16/3/5 .49 TS%
G5: 42/9/8/5 .635 TS% vs 22/12/0/3 .567 TS%
G6: 39/17/3/5 .684 TS% vs 19/10/5/1 .426 TS%
At best you can say one of those D-Rob box scores is better than Hakeem's, Game 4. Hakeem at least outplayed D-Rob in Games 1-2 and dominated the box score in the other three.
We're obviously interpreting one game very very differently. I think you may be more centric on simple volume numbers, whereas I'm taking a more broad look at the game.....
G3:
Hakeem - 43 pts, 11 reb (3 off), 4 ast, 0 stl, 5 blk, 2 tov @ 63.7% TS, 127 ORtg/122 DRtg (+5)
Robinson - 29 pts, 9 reb (3 off), 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 1 tov @ 76.5% TS, 160 ORtg/112 DRtg (+48)
Let's look at the above on both sides of the ball. Offensively, they both had 4 ast, they both had 3 offensive rebounds; Hakeem scored 14 more points, however was also -12.8% TS relative to Robinson (though he was still quite efficient) and turned the ball over one additional time. So who had the better offensive game? You're obviously saying Hakeem; I, otoh, think it's pretty close to a wash, but would probably give the slight nod to Robinson as he's delivering high volume too, and on vastly superior efficiency (both shooting efficiency and turnover economy). Note his ORtg is +32 to his team's already-stellar ORtg; Hakeem's is just +5 to his team's.
Defensively, Hakeem blocked 5 shots to only 1 block for Robinson. Though Robinson came up with 4 stl (to Hakeem's 0). Robinson isn't someone with a tendency to gamble himself out of position to come up with a steal; and both are still occupying the paint and protecting the rim, even when not coming up with a blocked shot. So missed gambles and other rim-protection aside, I [in a vacuum, if you will] put more value on a steal compared to a block (as they definitively end a possession, and may even trigger a transition opportunity). A block, otoh, is potentially erasing a shot that would have missed anyway, and does not necessarily end the possession. So based only on the stl/block numbers, I'd be giving a small edge to Robinson.
However, Hakeem also obtained +2 defensive boards relative to Robinson. So that brings things roughly to parity; could even see giving a paper-thin edge to Hakeem. Though then I note that the Spurs rocked the Hakeem-anchored defense to the tune of a 127.8 ORtg in a winning effort (the Spurs defense didn't perform well on this front either......but not quite that bad). So I'm calling defensive a wash (though fwiw, Hakeem's DRtg is -6 to his team's DRtg, while Robinson's is -10 to his team's already
better DRtg).
Overall, I give the very small edge to Robinson in G3 mostly based on my above interpretation of the offensive comparison.
I can see calling it a wash. I could perhaps even see giving Hakeem a negligible edge (though I don't agree). Saying Hakeem "dominated" the match-up in this game......I strenuously disagree. I honestly don't know how one can arrive at that conclusion.