Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight

[DeathLineup]

Yet there is a hint of trade chatter in the air as November dribbles to a close. You wouldn't describe it as anything super saucy yet, but there are players and situations to monitor. Such as:

Greg Monroe: Seven, zero, two and eight. Those are the minute totals Monroe logged in Milwaukee's four games leading into Thanksgiving. The esteemed Zach Lowe and I had a good discussion on the Lowe Post podcast this week about the challenges in trading big men in the current market -- specifically big men who are defensively challenged. The Bucks have explored the possibility of trading Monroe since last season's deadline in February, which illustrates how hard it can be, but the limited role he has in Brewtown these days is akin to screaming that the 26-year-old is available.

...

Brandon Knight: Suns general manager Ryan McDonough recently went on the Burns & Gambo radio show in Phoenix and proclaimed (A) that he isn't actively trying to trade Knight and (B) that he'd prefer to take at least two months to evaluate his team before seriously considering trades. None of that, however, has stopped interested rivals from believing that the struggling Knight -- who started two games this week with TJ Warren out but mostly comes off the bench for the Suns -- will be made available.

(http://www.espn.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/4699/nba-shopping-season-is-starting-to-warm-up-as-dec-15-draws-near)

Which team actually need to get those guys? Is there a market for those guys?
> Greg Monroe - Age 26 - 2 years, 35 million, 2nd year -> player option
> Brandon Knight - Age 24 - 4 years, 57 million

[bwgood77]

Yet there is a hint of trade chatter in the air as November dribbles to a close. You wouldn't describe it as anything super saucy yet, but there are players and situations to monitor. Such as:

Greg Monroe: Seven, zero, two and eight. Those are the minute totals Monroe logged in Milwaukee's four games leading into Thanksgiving. The esteemed Zach Lowe and I had a good discussion on the Lowe Post podcast this week about the challenges in trading big men in the current market -- specifically big men who are defensively challenged. The Bucks have explored the possibility of trading Monroe since last season's deadline in February, which illustrates how hard it can be, but the limited role he has in Brewtown these days is akin to screaming that the 26-year-old is available.

...

Brandon Knight: Suns general manager Ryan McDonough recently went on the Burns & Gambo radio show in Phoenix and proclaimed (A) that he isn't actively trying to trade Knight and (B) that he'd prefer to take at least two months to evaluate his team before seriously considering trades. None of that, however, has stopped interested rivals from believing that the struggling Knight -- who started two games this week with TJ Warren out but mostly comes off the bench for the Suns -- will be made available.

(http://www.espn.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/4699/nba-shopping-season-is-starting-to-warm-up-as-dec-15-draws-near)

Which team actually need to get those guys?
> Greg Monroe - Age 26 - 2 years, 35 million, 2nd year -> player option
> Brandon Knight - Age 24 - 4 years, 57 million

Funny, I just posted this on the Suns forum, that I have always hated Greg Monroe's game, but at this point, I hate Knight's more, so just to get rid of it, I'd think about it. But I'm not sure the Bucks would want him back if Kidd didn't want to keep him and would have rather had MCW. With Middleton out it makes some sense for this year, but not for the next 3. But as much as they want to unload Monroe, maybe they'd do it. The problem is, I don't think Monroe deserves time over Chandler or Len, and we just drafted two PFs, so I don't think he's a fit. Perhaps a 3 or 4 way where the Suns and Bucks get early 2nd rounders for them? They probably are not worth firsts, but maybe struggling teams willing to take a chance for a 2nd rounder would roll the dice....but in that case they could be individual trades for both teams.

Edit, one re-read I just realized you probably did not mean they would get traded for each other and in that case, it probably makes more sense. Maybe Philly would trade a 2nd rounder for Knight.

[Prez]

Greg Monroe is a legitimately good player whose fit issues on our team last year have destroyed his reputation. He's got his warts, but is giving more effort defensively this year, playing harder, and is straight up nowhere near as bad people seem to think he is (he's not bad at all). By literally every metric and the eye test he's been good this year. The stink of last year is unfairly lingering on him. He doesn't deserve to be clumped together with a massively negative player like Knight.

And I see it coming up a lot recently, but his DNP-CDs and low minutes in recent games has nothing to do with his play. Might have something to do with our idiotic front office overpaying two vastly inferior centers and being forced to play them, and possibly an incident in practice? But if we played who deserves to play at the center spot, Monroe would be easily getting 30+ minutes.

[Snakebites]

Greg Monroe is a legitimately good player whose fit issues on our team last year have destroyed his reputation. He's got his warts, but is giving much more effort defensively this year, playing harder, and is straight up nowhere near as bad as people seem to think he is. By literally every metric and the eye test he's a good player. The stink of last year is unfairly lingering on him. He doesn't deserve to be clumped together with a massively negative player like Knight.

And FWIW, I see it coming up a lot recently, but his DNP-CDs and low minutes in recent games has nothing to do with his play. Nothing whatsoever. Might have something to do with our idiotic front office overpaying two vastly inferior centers and being forced to play them, and possibly an incident in practice or something? But if they played who deserves to play at the center spot, Monroe would be easily getting 30+ minutes.

Trouble is, his skill set is just a tough fit everywhere. The Bucks and Pistons were the worst possible fits for him, but he's really not optimal anywhere.

His range is limited and he doesn't protect the rim. That means the ideal fit with him is a big who both spreads the floor and protects the rim. And there just aren't many of those. That also makes him a tough fit for just about any team that has slashing perimeter players that love having room to operate inside.

He simply doesn't do enough of the things you want a big to do in today's NBA.

[Prez]

Greg Monroe is a legitimately good player whose fit issues on our team last year have destroyed his reputation. He's got his warts, but is giving much more effort defensively this year, playing harder, and is straight up nowhere near as bad as people seem to think he is. By literally every metric and the eye test he's a good player. The stink of last year is unfairly lingering on him. He doesn't deserve to be clumped together with a massively negative player like Knight.

And FWIW, I see it coming up a lot recently, but his DNP-CDs and low minutes in recent games has nothing to do with his play. Nothing whatsoever. Might have something to do with our idiotic front office overpaying two vastly inferior centers and being forced to play them, and possibly an incident in practice or something? But if they played who deserves to play at the center spot, Monroe would be easily getting 30+ minutes.

Trouble is, his skill set is just a tough fit everywhere. The Bucks and Pistons were the worst possible fits for him, but he's really not optimal anywhere.

His range is limited and he doesn't protect the rim. That means the ideal fit with him is a big who both spreads the floor and protects the rim. And there just aren't many of those. That also makes him a tough fit for just about any team that has slashing perimeter players that love having room to operate inside.

He simply doesn't do enough of the things you want a big to do in today's NBA.

He's not a rim protector, but I actually think he's been alright defensively. Not elite obviously, but not nearly as bad as his reputation. He's not a Kanter or Al Jeff type defender imo. Teams like San Antonio, Charlotte, Boston have been making much worse defenders than Monroe positives in their schemes, there's really no reason why Monroe with the way he's playing couldn't be fine on that end.

And offensively, there aren't many teams in the league that wouldn't have use for a highly skilled low post center with the occasional midrange jumper. You don't have to start him, but as a 2nd unit big for 24-25 mpg? He's a damn good 2nd unit offense leader.

This isn't even me talking up Monroe for trade purposes (not like it matters on a forum lol)...I legitimately have liked what I've seen from Moose this year. His contract is literally the only thing giving me pause about bringing him back. On a reasonable contract I would LOVE Monroe as a 25 mpg backup for us.

[jbk1234]

Greg Monroe is a legitimately good player whose fit issues on our team last year have destroyed his reputation. He's got his warts, but is giving more effort defensively this year, playing harder, and is straight up nowhere near as bad people seem to think he is (he's not bad at all). By literally every metric and the eye test he's been good this year. The stink of last year is unfairly lingering on him. He doesn't deserve to be clumped together with a massively negative player like Knight.

And I see it coming up a lot recently, but his DNP-CDs and low minutes in recent games has nothing to do with his play. Might have something to do with our idiotic front office overpaying two vastly inferior centers and being forced to play them, and possibly an incident in practice? But if we played who deserves to play at the center spot, Monroe would be easily getting 30+ minutes.

I view both Knight and Monroe as somewhere between neutral and slightly negative. Monroe, Vuc, & Kanter just aren't players that other teams covet for obvious reasons. The way the league is trending their back ups or situational starters. Vuc is the only one whose contract lends itself to coming off the bench.

[DeathLineup]

Maybe Philly would trade a 2nd rounder for Knight.

Really? Thought Knight worth at least a late late first round pick.

As the cap rises, his contract is looking quite okay. Like it is not a poison contract by any means. Contenders could utilise him in the same role like Crawford in Clippers.

[bwgood77]

Maybe Philly would trade a 2nd rounder for Knight.

Really? Thought Knight worth at least a late late first round pick.

As the cap rises, his contract is looking quite okay. Like it is not a poison contract by any means. Contenders could utilise him in the same role like Crawford in Clippers.

He might be worth a late first, but what contender would want him? A second from a team like Philly isn't much worse.

[NashtyNas]

Trouble is, his skill set is just a tough fit everywhere. The Bucks and Pistons were the worst possible fits for him, but he's really not optimal anywhere.

...........

This isn't even me talking up Monroe for trade purposes (not like it matters on a forum lol)...I legitimately have liked what I've seen from Moose this year. His contract is literally the only thing giving me pause about bringing him back. On a reasonable contract I would LOVE Monroe as a 25 mpg backup for us.

Therein lies the problem. Regardless of everything you said, the Bucks don't want him and no other team is willing to give up anything of value for him. The reasons are mentioned by you above. He's at best a 25 minute backup if you want to be a good team and at that point he costs WAY too much for you to give up any value to acquire him. He works in limited systems as you suggested, and those teams generally aren't looking for players of Monroe's caliber anyhow. San Antonio has Gasol/Aldridge and Boston has Horford/Johnson, all better players and fits than Monroe.

I agree with Lowe and many others (and have been vocal about it for years now). Immobile low-post scoring bigs who are mediocre or worse on defense and can't stretch the floor are almost impossible to move. Even non-scoring, all defense bigs are difficult to move.

Teams want bigs that are versatile. Guys that can play inside or out, shoot or drive, defend and rebound. No one wants the dude that can score efficiently with his back to the basket but gives up 10 more points than he scores defensively while hindering the rest of his teams ability to score offensively. Basically, guys like Monroe and Kanter (and in my opinion Jefferson, BroLo etc.) are a luxury for most teams that they just can't afford (both in terms of $ and assets they'd have to give up).

[Kilo]

Another issue with Monroe is that if he plays well in his new place he opts out, but if he's still crud, he stays another year.

[HartfordWhalers]

Maybe Philly would trade a 2nd rounder for Knight.

Really? Thought Knight worth at least a late late first round pick.

As the cap rises, his contract is looking quite okay. Like it is not a poison contract by any means. Contenders could utilise him in the same role like Crawford in Clippers.

He might be worth a late first, but what contender would want him? A second from a team like Philly isn't much worse.

Philly gave up this year's 2nd as (half) the cost paid to bring in an Ish Smith rental. \

For 2nds they have:

2017
Best of Det/GS/NYK/Utah
Worst of Det/GS/NYK/Utah

2018
Phi
Best of Brk/Cle
Best of NYK/LAC

2019
Phi
NYK
Best of Mil/Sac

2020
Phi
Brk
NYK

2021:
Phi
NYK


{So, 5 years of Knicks 2nds? }


If we were talking about a deal from Philly, I think Knight would be setting my sights more on something like the OKC '20 1st, which is protected 1-20 for one year and if not 2 2nds. But maybe hitting up 2 or 3 of the very early 2nds is a better bet?

[Texas Chuck]

Basically, guys like Monroe and Kanter (and in my opinion Jefferson, BroLo etc.) are a luxury for most teams that they just can't afford (both in terms of $ and assets they'd have to give up).

I think BroLo is a bit different. One, he's always been a good midrange shooter and he's expanded that range further this year and he has provided some decent rim protection as well. Not a great defender by any means, but I'd have him as a more useful player at both ends for good teams than those other guys. He needs a good rebounder next to him as that is his main weakness.

In fact I still think a Monroe/Plumlee/Bucks 1st this year(lightly protected) for BroLo makes a ton of sense. Bucks get a legit starting center who works and clears out the 2 centers they should clear out and the Nets get a nice lotto pick for taking on the bad money.

But Bucks fans universally hate it so....

[Golabki]

If there was any market at all for Monroe he would be gone. He doesn't want to be there, Kidd doesn't want him to be there. Clearly no one is willing to give up anything, and even "nothing" might be worth it for the Bucks. I don't think this is an opinion anymore, I think the market as spoken.

[Golabki]

Basically, guys like Monroe and Kanter (and in my opinion Jefferson, BroLo etc.) are a luxury for most teams that they just can't afford (both in terms of $ and assets they'd have to give up).

I think BroLo is a bit different. One, he's always been a good midrange shooter and he's expanded that range further this year and he has provided some decent rim protection as well. Not a great defender by any means, but I'd have him as a more useful player at both ends for good teams than those other guys. He needs a good rebounder next to him as that is his main weakness.

In fact I still think a Monroe/Plumlee/Bucks 1st this year(lightly protected) for BroLo makes a ton of sense. Bucks get a legit starting center who works and clears out the 2 centers they should clear out and the Nets get a nice lotto pick for taking on the bad money.

But Bucks fans universally hate it so....

I think it makes sense for both

[LuessiT]

Basically, guys like Monroe and Kanter (and in my opinion Jefferson, BroLo etc.) are a luxury for most teams that they just can't afford (both in terms of $ and assets they'd have to give up).

I think BroLo is a bit different. One, he's always been a good midrange shooter and he's expanded that range further this year and he has provided some decent rim protection as well. Not a great defender by any means, but I'd have him as a more useful player at both ends for good teams than those other guys. He needs a good rebounder next to him as that is his main weakness.

In fact I still think a Monroe/Plumlee/Bucks 1st this year(lightly protected) for BroLo makes a ton of sense. Bucks get a legit starting center who works and clears out the 2 centers they should clear out and the Nets get a nice lotto pick for taking on the bad money.

But Bucks fans universally hate it so....

I think it makes sense for both

It doesn't make sense for the Bucks. And the reasons have been stated multiple times even if Chuck doesn't agree with that opinion.

[draftnightsuit]

The Blazers should be interested in Monroe to get some inside scoring.

Crabbe for Monroe

[MotownMadness]

I wouldn't mind getting Knight back as a 6th man but I'm not sure we could afford him now.

[jbk1234]

Basically, guys like Monroe and Kanter (and in my opinion Jefferson, BroLo etc.) are a luxury for most teams that they just can't afford (both in terms of $ and assets they'd have to give up).

I think BroLo is a bit different. One, he's always been a good midrange shooter and he's expanded that range further this year and he has provided some decent rim protection as well. Not a great defender by any means, but I'd have him as a more useful player at both ends for good teams than those other guys. He needs a good rebounder next to him as that is his main weakness.

In fact I still think a Monroe/Plumlee/Bucks 1st this year(lightly protected) for BroLo makes a ton of sense. Bucks get a legit starting center who works and clears out the 2 centers they should clear out and the Nets get a nice lotto pick for taking on the bad money.

But Bucks fans universally hate it so....

Yeah that Plumlee contract is going to haunt. I do wonder whether teams are reluctant to pay to dump bad contracts because they want to see what the final version of the CBA is going to look like. The players union takes an amnesty clause every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But you need at least 16 owners to sign off on it and I'm not sure there are 16 teams with contracts that are bad enough they want to let their competitors off the hook.