Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[montestewart]

Continued from here:

[gambitx777]

I would love to get rubio as a backup point guard, but im not sure what the price would be, probably too high. I would maybe see if we can do a pick and mahinmi would get us rubio and hill? hill can at least still rebound pretty well and is stuck in a youth log jam up front in minnesota. then we can toss a couple second to dump nicholson or something? Maybe 2 seconds and nicholson to denver for barton and miller, or a first and a second or two and nicholson, for barton and nurkic. then we would have rubio, Hill, barton, and nurkic, a much better bench. Then we just cut, house, and thornton.

[NatP4]

I think at this point, our best move is to just wait, Mahinmi is almost back, Satoransky and Oubre are getting better every game, Jason smith has been solid for awhile now. Thornton is gone for good, McClellan has looked really good in his playing time. Not sure what will happen with Nicholson, but Otto at the 4, and Jason smith at the 4, even though I hate it, helps you out there.

I think we should just wait it out, the bench is playing much better. I don't want anyone taking minutes away from Satoransky Oubre or Mahinmi, as well as Otto at the power forward spot, the only spot I see as possibly needing an upgrade right now would be 2 guard scorer type of player, but trading any asset for a guy that might not even be better than McClellan seems dumb. Would you rather have Barton over McClellan? I'd like to roll the dice on Sheldon, he's impressed me big time.

Now moving rotation/core players for an upgrade like turning Keef into Millsap somehow, different convo, but rounding out the bench with marginal upgrades that might not even be an upgrade, Rubio and Barton, I'd rather wait.

[SizzlinSimms]

I would love to get rubio as a backup point guard, but im not sure what the price would be, probably too high. I would maybe see if we can do a pick and mahinmi would get us rubio and hill? hill can at least still rebound pretty well and is stuck in a youth log jam up front in minnesota. then we can toss a couple second to dump nicholson or something? Maybe 2 seconds and nicholson to denver for barton and miller, or a first and a second or two and nicholson, for barton and nurkic. then we would have rubio, Hill, barton, and nurkic, a much better bench. Then we just cut, house, and thornton.

I don't think Rubio would want to be a backup PG though, even if it would benefit us.

[SizzlinSimms]

Darren Collison would be a good look though.

Also taking a look at Gerald Henderson, Monta Ellis, or Courtney Lee.

EDIT: Big scratch on Ellis. Didn't realize that contract.

[gambitx777]

I would love to get rubio as a backup point guard, but im not sure what the price would be, probably too high. I would maybe see if we can do a pick and mahinmi would get us rubio and hill? hill can at least still rebound pretty well and is stuck in a youth log jam up front in minnesota. then we can toss a couple second to dump nicholson or something? Maybe 2 seconds and nicholson to denver for barton and miller, or a first and a second or two and nicholson, for barton and nurkic. then we would have rubio, Hill, barton, and nurkic, a much better bench. Then we just cut, house, and thornton.

I don't think Rubio would want to be a backup PG though, even if it would benefit us.

You never know, hes still getting money, and an easier chance at the play offs. Maybe he does. He is not a good scorer but he would make a solid yet slightly overpriced back up.

[ozthegap]

I would love to get rubio as a backup point guard, but im not sure what the price would be, probably too high. I would maybe see if we can do a pick and mahinmi would get us rubio and hill? hill can at least still rebound pretty well and is stuck in a youth log jam up front in minnesota. then we can toss a couple second to dump nicholson or something? Maybe 2 seconds and nicholson to denver for barton and miller, or a first and a second or two and nicholson, for barton and nurkic. then we would have rubio, Hill, barton, and nurkic, a much better bench. Then we just cut, house, and thornton.

I don't think Rubio would want to be a backup PG though, even if it would benefit us.

You never know, hes still getting money, and an easier chance at the play offs. Maybe he does. He is not a good scorer but he would make a solid yet slightly overpriced back up.

The year he was drafted didn't he say something about not being willing to play for Washington because of how Juan Carlos was handled?

[dangermouse]

Trade Mahinmi. We can't take minutes away from Jason GOAT Smith.

No really though, its a shame he is injured and on that contract, having very low trade value. And we haven't even seen him in games with our starters to determine if trading Gortat could be viable.

[queridiculo]

Wouldn't mind seeing Lou Williams in a Wizards uniform. Too bad we don't have anything approaching value that we could send to the Lakers in return.

Can't wait for the jolt Grunfeld will come up this year!

[Dark Faze]

we're not far from the 4th seed at all

honestly I'm ready to go all in on a big impact player--give up two firsts for a huge difference maker and see how far we can push this thing

[Meliorus]

Trade Mahinmi. We can't take minutes away from Jason GOAT Smith.

No really though, its a shame he is injured and on that contract, having very low trade value. And we haven't even seen him in games with our starters to determine if trading Gortat could be viable.

Manhimi is good. I keep repeating this, but Vogel praised him as one of the best defenders at his position in the entire NBA. Last season, his Defensive RPM was 2nd in the ENTIRE league only behind Bogut. He had an incredible year, not a pretty good one. Manhimi haters keep arguing that the rest of his career was trash, but it can be easily argued that he just didn't get an opportunity to play. Indiana fans loved him, and Manhimi has never played with a point guard like Wall. I think he eventually starts for this team, and Gortat shifts to a more offensive role on the bench.

In some ways, I understand Grunfeld's signing of Manhimi. Ian was the best available player at his position defensively, and Gortat was getting old and has never been an excellent defender.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2016/6/30/12075148/free-agency-ian-mahinmi-is-still-the-center-the-indiana-pacers-need
http://www.indycornrows.com/2016/3/24/11296626/why-the-pacers-need-to-re-sign-ian-mahinmi
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/7/27/12114982/ian-mahinmi-washington-wizards-indy-cornrows-indiana-pacers

[stevemcqueen1]

I think at this point, our best move is to just wait, Mahinmi is almost back, Satoransky and Oubre are getting better every game, Jason smith has been solid for awhile now. Thornton is gone for good, McClellan has looked really good in his playing time. Not sure what will happen with Nicholson, but Otto at the 4, and Jason smith at the 4, even though I hate it, helps you out there.

I am an optimist, and even I think you are going too far in your optimism here. You don't know that Mahinmi is almost back. You don't know that Thornton is gone for good. You don't know that Sato or McClellan are going to keep playing well. Each one of those guys have been unreliable this year. That is the nature of playing a rookie second rounder and UDFA, and the nature of playing a 30 year old big with bad knees. Are you going to complain when Sato hits another wall and it's back to Thornton? I say when and not if because rookies always hit walls and Scott is going to have no choice but to start juggling again.

This team does not have a single reliable bench option at guard, and Oubre is not out of the woods yet either. We're playing with fire if we rely on him too.

Now I'm in agreement that we shouldn't make any big moves, including trading/replacing Mahinmi, but that's because we've got no good options for trading him and we might as well wait it out for him to return, not because we're set on the bench. Unfortunately we don't know when he'll be back or what level he'll be at when he returns. We don't know if he'll be able to slide into the rotation seamlessly and give us a big boost, or if he'll struggle or continue to battle injuries and have a lost season.

And to the point of making lesser trades, if a guy like Will Barton is available for the right price, then Sheldon McClellan doesn't keep you from pulling the trigger. We're going to go to the playoffs and we need guys we can trust to run a 9 man rotation, and Barton (or a good back up PG) would be a big help.

[Ruzious]

I think at this point, our best move is to just wait, Mahinmi is almost back, Satoransky and Oubre are getting better every game, Jason smith has been solid for awhile now. Thornton is gone for good, McClellan has looked really good in his playing time. Not sure what will happen with Nicholson, but Otto at the 4, and Jason smith at the 4, even though I hate it, helps you out there.

I think we should just wait it out, the bench is playing much better. I don't want anyone taking minutes away from Satoransky Oubre or Mahinmi, as well as Otto at the power forward spot, the only spot I see as possibly needing an upgrade right now would be 2 guard scorer type of player, but trading any asset for a guy that might not even be better than McClellan seems dumb. Would you rather have Barton over McClellan? I'd like to roll the dice on Sheldon, he's impressed me big time.

Now moving rotation/core players for an upgrade like turning Keef into Millsap somehow, different convo, but rounding out the bench with marginal upgrades that might not even be an upgrade, Rubio and Barton, I'd rather wait.

I pretty much agree. My concern is that they'll trade a first for a quick fix.

[stevemcqueen1]

In some ways, I understand Grunfeld's signing of Manhimi. Ian was the best available player at his position defensively, and Gortat was getting old and has never been an excellent defender.

He is good. And I was on board with signing him at the time, I'd been able to watch some of his play in Indy last season and he was impressive. He is a legit starting caliber C and he is one of the best defensive players in the NBA, not just at the C position. He is super explosive and strong bodied and moves at a different speed than any big we've had in a long time. He is a terrific pick and roll defender and a solid rim protector, which is exactly what we needed. And on offense he is a pretty good pick and roll finisher. If he were healthy, he would be exactly what we need at the C position in this rotation.

But I also didn't know about his recurrent health issues, including chronic knee problems. And those have been very damaging to us this season. We lost him and Nicholson became unplayable in the process. And the lack of reliability in our big man rotation caused by Mahinmi's absence is forcing us to play Gortat an amount of minutes that should be sounding a klaxon alarm.

We've waited this long for his return that we might as well see if he'll be back soon and if he can contribute to the season. But this offseason I would be exploring trades, and if a no-brainer salary dump came up before the deadline where we got an asset in return, then I think you have to take the deal. It is a big risk to assume that Mahinmi's knee issues aren't going to continue to effect us over the duration of his contract.

[Ruzious]

Mahinmi is 30 years old, has had all of 1 good season in the NBA (a season he was benched at the end by a teenage rookie), and is making 16 mil a year. Why would anyone pick him up - much less actually give up an asset for the honor of doing so - even if he didn't have a knee issue? They won't.

[NatP4]

I think at this point, our best move is to just wait, Mahinmi is almost back, Satoransky and Oubre are getting better every game, Jason smith has been solid for awhile now. Thornton is gone for good, McClellan has looked really good in his playing time. Not sure what will happen with Nicholson, but Otto at the 4, and Jason smith at the 4, even though I hate it, helps you out there.

I am an optimist, and even I think you are going too far in your optimism here. You don't know that Mahinmi is almost back. You don't know that Thornton is gone for good. You don't know that Sato or McClellan are going to keep playing well. Each one of those guys have been unreliable this year. That is the nature of playing a rookie second rounder and UDFA, and the nature of playing a 30 year old big with bad knees. Are you going to complain when Sato hits another wall and it's back to Thornton? I say when and not if because rookies always hit walls and Scott is going to have no choice but to start juggling again.

This team does not have a single reliable bench option at guard, and Oubre is not out of the woods yet either. We're playing with fire if we rely on him too.

Now I'm in agreement that we shouldn't make any big moves, including trading/replacing Mahinmi, but that's because we've got no good options for trading him and we might as well wait it out for him to return, not because we're set on the bench. Unfortunately we don't know when he'll be back or what level he'll be at when he returns. We don't know if he'll be able to slide into the rotation seamlessly and give us a big boost, or if he'll struggle or continue to battle injuries and have a lost season.

And to the point of making lesser trades, if a guy like Will Barton is available for the right price, then Sheldon McClellan doesn't keep you from pulling the trigger. We're going to go to the playoffs and we need guys we can trust to run a 9 man rotation, and Barton (or a good back up PG) would be a big help.

We are going to continue to develop these guys as the year goes along, remember Otto year 2? Wasn't dependable at all, playoffs roll around, he averges 10&8 with great D. Oubre is our X factor for the playoffs, same with Satoransky and Mahinmi to a lesser degree.

Trading a 1st round pick for Barton instead of rolling with McClellan is a bad idea if you ask me. Someone else mentioned this earlier in the year and I thought it was crazy talk but after seeing McClellan play more, I think he's a legit NBA 2 guard. You only play 8 or so guys in the playoffs anyways, you don't have to depend on him that much at all.

And seriously, don't forget Ian Mahinmi is coming back, that's a big pickup.

[NatP4]

we're not far from the 4th seed at all

honestly I'm ready to go all in on a big impact player--give up two firsts for a huge difference maker and see how far we can push this thing

DMC?

[gambitx777]

Well I love that we have McCellan. He basically does make up for not having a draft pick last year, because you could in theory consider him a late first round talent. I really see him as a young Raja Bell. That being said, Raja Bell took 3-5 years to become a serviceable NBA starter. IF you can pull a Nicholson and an 2018 or 2019 or 2020 first with or without some seconds of some kind for barton and nurkic or barton and miller, you do that deal all day. Because McCellan is a guy we can develop and play, but if we are in the play offs and beal gets a concussion do you want barton and McCellan or McCellan and Burke/Thornton. It makes sense you dump an awful contract and you get depth, needed depth. Cut Miller or sit on the bench, or trade him again. and if you got nurkic, that would be great.

[Meliorus]

Standing pat is the best option, but our GM still failed John Wall. Benches are easy to fix, and our bench seems to be moving in the right direction. However, an upgraded, league-average bench isn't going to get us to Cleveland's level. Where we failed John Wall is our history of transactions/signings since Wall started heading towards his prime. Beal and Porter are great, but Markieff and Gortat are not enough for championship contention.

Obviously, it's incredibly difficult to compete for a ring even if we aggressively surrounded Wall with stars. However, we haven't even tried; we haven't taken enough risks. Markieff and Gortat are our current starters, but are there any young prospects behind them that you can point to as having potential?? After our "big three", the only player on our team with a hint of star upside is Oubre. We're stuck in mediocrity and we've never even made an attempt to get out of it. We've been complacent on just making the playoffs. Ernie keeps going into each free agency with the mind-set of fortifying our bench, and willing to spend a lot of money in the process.

If we ever want to be a contender with this core, we need to take a risk on a young big in the draft. Don't draft the safe player who can only be a rotation player. Draft an athletic PF/C who has star upside (no matter how raw). No more trading picks for solid old players. If possible, try to sign young front-court players in free agency who have star upside (haha we have no cap room). Repeatedly signing veterans only solidifies us in mediocrity and never raises our ceiling.

In other words, we're still wasting Wall's prime. And the clock is ticking.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think at this point, our best move is to just wait, Mahinmi is almost back, Satoransky and Oubre are getting better every game, Jason smith has been solid for awhile now. Thornton is gone for good, McClellan has looked really good in his playing time. Not sure what will happen with Nicholson, but Otto at the 4, and Jason smith at the 4, even though I hate it, helps you out there.

I am an optimist, and even I think you are going too far in your optimism here. You don't know that Mahinmi is almost back. You don't know that Thornton is gone for good. You don't know that Sato or McClellan are going to keep playing well. Each one of those guys have been unreliable this year. That is the nature of playing a rookie second rounder and UDFA, and the nature of playing a 30 year old big with bad knees. Are you going to complain when Sato hits another wall and it's back to Thornton? I say when and not if because rookies always hit walls and Scott is going to have no choice but to start juggling again.

This team does not have a single reliable bench option at guard, and Oubre is not out of the woods yet either. We're playing with fire if we rely on him too.

Now I'm in agreement that we shouldn't make any big moves, including trading/replacing Mahinmi, but that's because we've got no good options for trading him and we might as well wait it out for him to return, not because we're set on the bench. Unfortunately we don't know when he'll be back or what level he'll be at when he returns. We don't know if he'll be able to slide into the rotation seamlessly and give us a big boost, or if he'll struggle or continue to battle injuries and have a lost season.

And to the point of making lesser trades, if a guy like Will Barton is available for the right price, then Sheldon McClellan doesn't keep you from pulling the trigger. We're going to go to the playoffs and we need guys we can trust to run a 9 man rotation, and Barton (or a good back up PG) would be a big help.

We are going to continue to develop these guys as the year goes along, remember Otto year 2? Wasn't dependable at all, playoffs roll around, he averges 10&8 with great D. Oubre is our X factor for the playoffs, same with Satoransky and Mahinmi to a lesser degree.

Trading a 1st round pick for Barton instead of rolling with McClellan is a bad idea if you ask me. Someone else mentioned this earlier in the year and I thought it was crazy talk but after seeing McClellan play more, I think he's a legit NBA 2 guard. You only play 8 or so guys in the playoffs anyways, you don't have to depend on him that much at all.

And seriously, don't forget Ian Mahinmi is coming back, that's a big pickup.

I wouldn't trade a first for Barton either, and if that's what it cost, I would pass on him too. But if a Darren Collison type player became available for a lesser asset than a first round pick, I would jump on that kind of deal.

Otto was special and honestly, we got pretty lucky that he turned out to be such a good postseason player right out of the gate. It doesn't happen like that for most young players, who usually take some time to get adjusted to the different style of play.

We know we can't trust Burke or Thornton, and we're living dangerously if we trust Sato and McClellan. We need a good, seasoned back up guard. We shouldn't have let Ramon Sessions walk. We'd be fine if we'd used Nicholson's money to keep him and never made the trade for Burke.