Is Kyle Lowry being a good defender a myth

RaptorsLife · Post #1 » by **RaptorsLife** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:33 am

I'm not basing it off of the last 2 games of Bledsoe and kemba destroying him. But eye test. He really doesn't get into a stance. He doesn't try to keep the player in front of him instead just swaps for the ball.

Which results in a steal sometimes but most of the time. He just leaves JV and bebe in no man's land either the pg drives to hoops makes a basket or the pg just dumps it off to the center or pf. It's concerning.

He really isn't trying. When both of you're best players are bad defenders. Your defense is gonna be trash. Forget a trade solving this. Our all stars need to grow some balls and guard there man

Just copied and pasted this stats from Choker hope he doesn't mind but it's really telling .

Lowry has been our worst defender by far in janurary. Players are shooting 8.7% better when he's guarding them. The next worst are Joseph at 4.9%, Ross at 4.8%, Poeltl at 4.2%, Powell at 2.6%, and DeRozan at 2.1%. Carroll, Siakam, Valanciunas, and Bebe are our only players who are holding their opposition below their usual FG%.

Roco14 · Post #2 » by **Roco14** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:39 am

imagine if Lowry and Derozan got in the defensive stance that Norm gets into when defending... but it will never happen

RaptorNews · Post #3 » by **RaptorNews** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:56 am

He's been awful this year

Or at he very least been awful for too many stretches

PT416 · Post #4 » by **PT416** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:25 am

I think he's a great defender. I also think he's relaxing right now. There's no reason to play hard. For what? We're a playoff team now.

Also I think if Demar misses some games and Ross and Powell shine, expect a trade. I still see us getting Millsap at the deadline with an outside shot at Cousins. I had a dream about this. We got someone really good. I think we won the damn ring though and that made me doubt the dream. I've had like 4 or 5 dreams in my life I specifically remembered that came true. This seemed like one of them.

RaptorsLife · Post #5 » by **RaptorsLife** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:39 am

PT416 wrote:I think he's a great defender. I also think he's relaxing right now. There's no reason to play hard. For what? We're a playoff team now.

Also I think if Demar misses some games and Ross and Powell shine, expect a trade. I still see us getting Millsap at the deadline with an outside shot at Cousins. I had a dream about this. We got someone really good. I think we won the damn ring though and that made me doubt the dream. I've had like 4 or 5 dreams in my life I specifically remembered that came true. This seemed like one of them.

Seriously Lowry is saving his energy because he knows were going to playoffs. Same guy who shoots 38% and has 14.9 per in the playoffs. I understand if LeBron did that but lowry doesn't have that on switch he actually gets worse. He needs to make it a habit of playing defense. We're not a contender. We need home court. We're losing games to bad teams because our defense is trash. Your getting paid to play 100% in a 82 game season

Saciid11 · Post #6 » by **Saciid11** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:08 am

Typical RealGM raptor fans, couple of bad games player who carried us at both end is not good enough. Lowry is not the problem with our defence, it's the lack of rim protection and the lack of talent up front that we are getting killed at the defensive end. On the offensive we have only Lowry and DeMar that can score consistently, the rest of the team depend on Lowry and DeMar to create for them. Masai most either get a defensive big man and decent starting 4 or if not atleast get that third star who can consistently score ...

Senbonzakura · Post #7 » by **Senbonzakura** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:29 am

Saciid11 wrote:Typical RealGM raptor fans, couple of bad games player who carried us at both end is not good enough. Lowry is not the problem with our defence, it's the lack of rim protection and the lack of talent up front that we are getting killed at the defensive end. On the offensive we have only Lowry and DeMar that can score consistently, the rest of the team depend on Lowry and DeMar to create for them. Masai most either get a defensive big man and decent starting 4 or if not atleast get that third star who can consistently score ...

It's not a couple of bad games.

These quick, athletic PGs have always caused Lowry major problems defensively. Wall routinely destroys him one on one, as does Kemba. I'm sure Westbrook would as well if we played OKC more often.

It's not really that big of an issue though cause there are a lot of top teams that have PGs who aren't even good defensively at all (Curry, Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc). I agree with you on the rim protection. Jonas IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I'm tired of people arguing against this idea. In the modern NBA you need a mobile, athletic rim protector at center to have a strong defense. Centers like Jonas are 6th men nowadays (Monroe, Vucevic, Al Jefferson, Kanter all come off the bench for their teams) not starters on playoff teams.

Saciid11 · Post #8 » by **Saciid11** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:09 am

Senbonzakura wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:Typical RealGM raptor fans, couple of bad games player who carried us at both end is not good enough. Lowry is not the problem with our defence, it's the lack of rim protection and the lack of talent up front that we are getting killed at the defensive end. On the offensive we have only Lowry and DeMar that can score consistently, the rest of the team depend on Lowry and DeMar to create for them. Masai most either get a defensive big man and decent starting 4 or if not atleast get that third star who can consistently score ...

It's not a couple of bad games.

These quick, athletic PGs have always caused Lowry major problems defensively. Wall routinely destroys him one on one, as does Kemba. I'm sure Westbrook would as well if we played OKC more often.

It's not really that big of an issue though cause there are a lot of top teams that have PGs who aren't even good defensively at all (Curry, Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc). I agree with you on the rim protection. Jonas IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I'm tired of people arguing against this idea. In the modern NBA you need a mobile, athletic rim protector at center to have a strong defense. Centers like Jonas are 6th men nowadays (Monroe, Vucevic, Al Jefferson, Kanter all come off the bench for their teams) not starters on playoff teams.

Lowry might not be all nba defensive player, but is a solid defender.

RaptorsLife · Post #9 » by **RaptorsLife** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:13 am

Saciid11 wrote:
Senbonzakura wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:Typical RealGM raptor fans, couple of bad games player who carried us at both end is not good enough. Lowry is not the problem with our defence, it's the lack of rim protection and the lack of talent up front that we are getting killed at the defensive end. On the offensive we have only Lowry and DeMar that can score consistently, the rest of the team depend on Lowry and DeMar to create for them. Masai most either get a defensive big man and decent starting 4 or if not atleast get that third star who can consistently score ...

It's not a couple of bad games.

These quick, athletic PGs have always caused Lowry major problems defensively. Wall routinely destroys him one on one, as does Kemba. I'm sure Westbrook would as well if we played OKC more often.

It's not really that big of an issue though cause there are a lot of top teams that have PGs who aren't even good defensively at all (Curry, Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc). I agree with you on the rim protection. Jonas IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I'm tired of people arguing against this idea. In the modern NBA you need a mobile, athletic rim protector at center to have a strong defense. Centers like Jonas are 6th men nowadays (Monroe, Vucevic, Al Jefferson, Kanter all come off the bench for their teams) not starters on playoff teams.

Lowry might not be all nba defensive player, but is a solid defender.

I don't like jv either but Lowry is not helping himself with his effort in defense. Steals isn't enough

carl_english · Post #10 » by **carl_english** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:25 am

He likes to go for the lazy steal a lot..

dalton749 · Post #11 » by **dalton749** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:04 pm

Kyle is a good team defender but closing out on shooter and man he is bad

kingr · Post #12 » by **kingr** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:57 pm

I haven't looked at Lowry as a defender for a couple years now. He may be using up too much energy on offense.

Rapcity_11 · Post #13 » by **Rapcity_11** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:10 pm

No, but it shows how important effort and discipline is defensively.

MasaiLegs · Post #14 » by **MasaiLegs** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:37 pm

Kyle's defense has been hot garbage. The Raptor's in general are hot garbage in containing guard penetration. Corey Joseph's first couple of months of playing for the Raptors looked good at containment but he's been garbage since too. I'm not sure if that's just the defensive scheme to rely on the bigs, but it doesn't look like they take any pride on guarding their man straight up. This isn't a new thing and not a reactionary opinion.

C_Money · Post #15 » by **C_Money** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:40 pm

I also get the feeling that Lowry is coasting a bit. It might have something to do with he fact that he plays 40+ minutes on most nights.

TackyRapsFan · Post #16 » by **TackyRapsFan** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:59 pm

He's probably knackered most nights to be a defensive stopper to these freakish, young point guards in the league. Staying in front of John Wall is a task all by itself, without the entire team leaning on your offence for 39 minutes a night.

Because our coach is a goof,
And our GM just hopes for the best.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gerrit4 · Post #17 » by **gerrit4** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:44 pm

Yeah, he definitely has a reputation as a good defender from his days before coming here. He was also playing a lot less minutes, and had much less of an offensive role.

I'm not sure there are many great defenders at the PG spot, Chris Paul & George Hill come to mind, but I think Lowry is definitely better than a lot of them.

Even though steals are risky and can lead to easy buckets by the other team, he really does have incredible hands and ability to read passing lanes. It seems like every game he's able to swat away a ball after the opposing team's big man rebounds it. So that counts for something.

I think more than anything, we've seen that this team really needs defenders who "fill gaps" more than traditional rim protection. That's why Patterson is so valuable, and even Amir was really good at this too. They understand the scheme very well, and are able to cover for other's mistakes. JV is not like that (obviously), so he really has never fit in defensively.

DellCurry4Life · Post #18 » by **DellCurry4Life** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:56 pm

Its hard to judge Lowry as a defender in relation to has his player does in a game. If it is one on one you can get an idea of his abilities but when you throw in screens, rotations, etc. it makes it a harder to judge.

The issue is the same it has been in past years. This year, with PP out we are losing our best (and one of few) smart team defenders who rarely misses his rotations which is highlighting this issue. The problem isn't individual defenders, it is that the help defense and rotations are being missed.

Given JV's lack of foot speed it makes the rotation from the weakside that much more important. Basically, when a screen occurs the guard is left looking at JV, which is obviously a mismatch for us. But even if JV hedges properly and forces a pass Lowry is behind the screener (and sometimes out of position) which leaves the weakside defender responsible to roll over and cover the screener. Not only does this rarely happen with PP out (Bebe, Carroll and Sully have been doing this well) but it then leaves the help defenders man open.

Basically, this defensive scheme and the players we have requires a team to be on point for their rotations and help. This team does not do this every play. The biggest concern is that this issue still persists even after the length of time the core players have been playing together and under the same coach.

The_Hater · Post #19 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:13 pm

The advanced stats say he's good. The biggest problem with the eye test is no player gets put into the pick and roll more an those guarding opposing PG's. That forces them into a lot of switches onto bigger players and puts them into a bad situation iif a teammate hedges/helps poorly.

johanliebert · Post #20 » by **johanliebert** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:55 pm

the raptosr frontline defense is a joke..yall always getting at casey for limiting vals limits like there isnt a reason for that lmao. Losing biyombo really hurt them this season as well as pattys absence at the moment.

the team needs to make a move for a big cause bebe/val are hurting them. Tucker would be a great fit here.