Do we suck?

_tijo_ · Post #1 » by **_tijo_** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:44 am

I think we might suck.

GoBobs · Post #2 » by **GoBobs** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:11 am

We are at best below average.

Post #3 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:21 am

We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

Braggins · Post #4 » by **Braggins** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:09 am

yosemiteben wrote:We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

Plenty of teams have been more injured than us. Seems like health is an issue because of our poor roster construction. We have two players currently injured and they are role players. Cody is good, but he is indispensable mostly because we acquired Roy Hibbert and Spencer Hawes to be our backup centers (Cliff not wanting to go small doesn't help). All it takes is one injury to throw the team out of whack because we don't have quality depth and our bench is littered with negative players. We've been mostly healthy this season. Kemba and MKG have played all but one game. Batum has played all but three. Marv and Cody have missed the most among our starters with six and nine. That seems like fairly average health and not enough to excuse us being sub .500 at this point.

Edit: missed games stats I gave were wrong initially

Post #5 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:17 am

Meh, our starting lineup is rocking a top 6 net rating among all 5 man lineups playing 200 or more minutes this season but has only played in 28 games this season. I don't disagree that the depth isn't there and that injuries hurt us more than they probably should, so I think we should do what we can to help there. But our starting lineup, when healthy, is one of the best in the league.

Post #6 » by **fatlever** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:25 am

yosemiteben wrote:We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

I see that as a depth and bench problem, not a health problem. Every team has injuries to key players during the season. We have nobody who steps up consistently when one of the starting 5 is out.

countryboi · Post #7 » by **countryboi** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:36 am

we need another big that is not Hibbert or Hawes and right now Frank is ****, I really wish we could lower his minutes but we have no one else.

TinmanZBoy · Post #8 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:44 am

Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

Plenty of teams have been more injured than us. Seems like health is an issue because of our poor roster construction. We have two players currently injured and they are role players. Cody is good, but he is indispensable mostly because we acquired Roy Hibbert and Spencer Hawes to be our backup centers (Cliff not wanting to go small doesn't help). All it takes is one injury to throw the team out of whack because we don't have quality depth and our bench is littered with negative players. We've been mostly healthy this season. Kemba and MKG have played all but one game. Batum has played all but three. Marv and Cody have missed the most among our starters with six and nine. That seems like fairly average health and not enough to excuse us being sub .500 at this point.

Edit: missed games stats I gave were wrong initially

in short, this year's team is healthier than last year's team without a doubt...and Kemba maintained last year's level and probably even better... the team Net ratings are fine, still pretty balanced... the problem is you lost some games that you should not lose, and did not win any game against teams like Cavs, Spurs, Celtics etc...
you guys should send a bag of chips to Brooklyn, get that sucker on Nets' bench back

HornetJail · Post #9 » by **HornetJail** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:20 am

We will make the playoffs with this roster. But we will go nowhere with this bench. I have zero issues with our starting five at the moment, and believe it's as good as any short of Cleveland in the Eastern Conference. However, we likely have the worst bench PG, PF, and C in the Eastern Conference playoff race. Which is especially bad since Cody Zeller spends a fair amount of time on the sidelines, and Marvin is the weakest out of our starting five. Clifford isn't without blame. I can't think of an unemployed coach that I'd prefer over him but he needs to be better with his in game adjustments and rotations. They're fixable issues though, and he gets better about it as each season progresses (though not perfect). But I really do think we're a good backup center and good backup point guard away from being a really good team.

One thing is for certain: as long as Cody misses games and we're forced to deal with 48 minutes of the diarrhea trio of Hawes/Hibbert/Frank, we're probably going to lose. I'm perfectly happy dealing our 1st, Frank, and scrubs for actual backups at center and PG, and just running more small-ball to eliminate the need for a full time backup 4. And I don't have any real affinity with Marco yet, I'd deal him as long as we're getting someone who can shoot like him.

catch20two · Post #10 » by **catch20two** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:23 am

Poor offseason acquisitions + Batum is what I said he is (3rd/4th fiddle) + Frank hasn't improved + Cody get injured every 10 games + Clifford's bad roster management (lineups and rotations) = WE SUCK!

Same stuff I been saying since October 2016 minus the Lamb blurbs.

TheKingofSting · Post #11 » by **TheKingofSting** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:43 am

We are like the Panthers and will be good every other year. At least until MJ get tired of mediocrity and ponies up for an experienced head coach to take us to the promised land. Also getting a GM that knows what he is doing and doesn't just put on a tin foil hat at draft time would help.

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Post #12 » by **JDR720** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:42 pm

We have a mild level of suck going on. What's are record since mid December ?

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #13 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:10 pm

fatlever wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

I see that as a depth and bench problem, not a health problem. Every team has injuries to key players during the season. We have nobody who steps up consistently when one of the starting 5 is out.

Depth is a roster construction problem.

Our starters are pretty good. If they all could play 48 min a game, 82 games a year, the team would be set. As is though they fall apart when either Cody or Kemba can't play.

Post #14 » by **fatlever** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:39 pm

JDR720 wrote:We have a mild level of suck going on. What's are record since mid December ?

We are 4-11 over our last 15 games.

In those 15 games...
- Cody missed 7 games, Lamb missed 9 games, Marco & Batum missed 2 games
- Batum, Marco and Sessions shooting less than 40%
- Marco shooting 26% from 3
- Batum 3.1 turnovers/game
- Lamb has -17.6 net rating, Hawes -12.0, Sessions -7.5, Marco -2.5, Frank -1.3, Batum -0.5
- Worst TS% -> Sessions, Batum, Lamb, Marco
- 5-man unit of starters + Hawes has a net rating of -52.5 in 30 minutes, same lineup with Hibbert is +12.5
- 5-man unit of Sessions, Marco, Batum, Frank, Hawes has a net rating of -12.5 in 28 minutes

My conclusions
- Cody makes everything work, w/out it all falls apart, we have nobody who can replace what he does on either side of the ball
- The bench is really struggling, which has been a problem all season. Being w/out two players Lamb/Cody, just exaggerates the problem of quality depth
- As long as Cody is out, Clifford needs to reevaluate his closing lineup of starters + Hawes. That unit is getting absolutely destroyed. I know he likes to start with his "defense" lineup and finish with his "offense" lineup, but perhaps Hibbert or Frank need to be closing ahead of Hawes.
- Batum and Marco are in a bad shooting slump. That has to have an impact on the bench unit + Batum which has not been good.

Post #15 » by **fatlever** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:59 pm

more from last 15 games, team stats...

- 27th in win %, ahead of only Nets, Magic and Lakers
- 18th in +/-
- 16th in net rating (13th on offense, 18th on defense)
- first three points show we are better than our record, but losing a lot of close games. Last year we were winning all the close games, this year is the opposite.
- 27th in FG%
- 16th in 3PT%
- 13th TS%
- 5th in Dreb%
- 8th in Ast/To
- most 3PA allowed
- 3rd most 3PM allowed
- 12th in FTA
- 6th in FTA allowed
- 6th in turnovers/game

We've slipped in some of the areas where we were best or among best in the league - Defense rebounding, turnovers, free throws and free throws allowed.

shanedude · Post #16 » by **shanedude** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:40 pm

Whats going on? Weren't you guys better last year?

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #17 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:39 pm

shanedude wrote:Whats going on? Weren't you guys better last year?

Bench is weaker. Team misses Lin and Lee a lot. MKG is defending well but isn't able to shoot like Lee.

GlenRiceARoni · Post #18 » by **GlenRiceARoni** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:14 am

Without Zeller there's no question we suck. We are playing 4 on 5 on both ends. Hibbert cant even set a screen

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

Sauce_Castillo · Post #19 » by **Sauce_Castillo** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:03 am

TinmanZBoy wrote:
Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:We're clearly not playing like a playoff team right now.

Our biggest problem is not roster construction though, it's health.

Plenty of teams have been more injured than us. Seems like health is an issue because of our poor roster construction. We have two players currently injured and they are role players. Cody is good, but he is indispensable mostly because we acquired Roy Hibbert and Spencer Hawes to be our backup centers (Cliff not wanting to go small doesn't help). All it takes is one injury to throw the team out of whack because we don't have quality depth and our bench is littered with negative players. We've been mostly healthy this season. Kemba and MKG have played all but one game. Batum has played all but three. Marv and Cody have missed the most among our starters with six and nine. That seems like fairly average health and not enough to excuse us being sub .500 at this point.

Edit: missed games stats I gave were wrong initially

in short, this year's team is healthier than last year's team without a doubt...and Kemba maintained last year's level and probably even better... the team Net ratings are fine, still pretty balanced... the problem is you lost some games that you should not lose, and did not win any game against teams like Cavs, Spurs, Celtics etc...
you guys should send a bag of chips to Brooklyn, get that sucker on Nets' bench back

We started the year last season at 23-25 as well. Hoping for same second half of the year result, but looks grim at the moment.

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Eoghan · Post #20 » by **Eoghan** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:26 am

The East is catching up. This year there are less outrightly sucky teams to beat up on and pad our record. Next year there might be even less as Philly, Orlando and similarly young teams continue to grow. Just have to hope that more teams treadmill harder than we do and we get lucky with trades/draft picks (lol, yeah right).