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Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics

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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#21 » by Bleeding Green » Wed May 3, 2017 12:55 am

Smitty731 wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
In 2016, none. But there were none worth taking. The only players drafted after Yabusele who did anything in 2016 were Brogdon and Labissiere (after Boogie was traded). Caris LeVert looked ok, but even he barely played 20 minutes on the NBA's worst team.

OK so the plan was always to draft international players and stash them. NCAA players taken before like pick 50 are never stashed and alwasys sign NBA contracts immediately. I bet the last top-16 NCAA player who didn't immediately sign a contract was Larry Bird.


Josh Huestis was drafted in the first round out of Stanford and was stashed in the NBADL for a year before signing with OKC.

At 29, and exactly. You aren't getting a useful NCAA player at 16 that you can convince to not sign an NBA contract.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#22 » by Smitty731 » Wed May 3, 2017 1:01 am

Bleeding Green wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:OK so the plan was always to draft international players and stash them. NCAA players taken before like pick 50 are never stashed and alwasys sign NBA contracts immediately. I bet the last top-16 NCAA player who didn't immediately sign a contract was Larry Bird.


Josh Huestis was drafted in the first round out of Stanford and was stashed in the NBADL for a year before signing with OKC.

At 29, and exactly. You aren't getting a useful NCAA player at 16 that you can convince to not sign an NBA contract.
.


Yup. I missed the top-16 part of your post. But yeah, unless there are some sort of extenuating circumstances, or dude pulls a Jon Barry, they are signing.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#23 » by jfs1000d » Wed May 3, 2017 1:18 am

CsBsSoxPhins wrote:
ValenciaCeltics wrote:I have just watched a Juancho Hernangómez long interview in Spanish. Since the Denver Nuggets have finished the season weeks ago, Juancho is already back in Spain and he was speaking about his rookie season in the NBA.
The best moment in his rookie year was the 27 points he scored in the 132-110 win against the Warriors...

But when he was talking about the day of the draft, he told something interesting:

He was told that he was going to be picked by the Boston Celtics at pick#16, but then, the Nuggets picked him at pick#15, when he actually knew nothing about Denver' interest on him. Also, according to him, looks like the Celtics were thinking about leaving him one more year in Europe. He also told that playing for the Celtics and living in Boston would have been great.

So, the Celtics picking Yabusele in the 16th pick was a last minute move, I guess.

What do you think about this? Are you glad that we picked Yabusele, or had you prefered picking Hernangomez instead?

(sorry my english)

That is pretty interesting. Feels like Ainge just had a list of stash prospects ready at 16 and was going to take whoever he felt was BPA from that list.


That's true. We wanted Hernangomez.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#24 » by Andrew McCeltic » Wed May 3, 2017 3:41 am

Wonder if we would've taken Yabu at 23 if we'd been able to get Hernangomez.

Also disappointed we didn't take Zubac at 31 - he's a promising big.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#25 » by Moobydoo » Wed May 3, 2017 6:26 am

I'm happy as we got Zizic - so it has all worked out in my little mind.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#26 » by Celtic King » Wed May 3, 2017 6:46 am

Seriously. We only have a couple of months to wait for summer league and the draft and then we will all find out what the team thinks about Yabs, Zizic etc. Lets not make silly statement and predictions.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#27 » by return2glory » Wed May 3, 2017 12:39 pm

Way too early to say who will he better. Just because Ainge wanted Hernangomez more doesn't mean Ainge was right on who would be a better player.

Let's remember that Ainge wanted Justise Winslow a few years ago and was willing to trade multiple picks for him if the rumors were true. And Winslow hasn't impressed.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#28 » by smart_celtics » Wed May 3, 2017 1:55 pm

ryaningf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:What NCAA prospect could they have taken at 16 and stashed in Europe/China? Name me one American-born player who was drafted in the top 16 and didn't immediately sign an NBA contract.


In 2016, none. But there were none worth taking. The only players drafted after Yabusele who did anything in 2016 were Brogdon and Labissiere (after Boogie was traded). Caris LeVert looked ok, but even he barely played 20 minutes on the NBA's worst team.


McCaw had a comparable rookie year to Jaylen Brown, as did Luwawu. Korkmaz or Zagorac were possible stash candidates.

Taking Yabu is a defensible move. Trading #31 & #36 for a late first (likely a 2nd, given the protections) is not, especially when the likely ROY was available at those picks and Ainge was reportedly itching to select him.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/03/malcolm_brogdon_boston_celtics.html


Here's my defense of trading #31 & 36 for a future first - We had a roster crunch and no place to put extra rookies, so we traded for a future asset that is more likely to be traded then used. In isolation not the best value trade, but given the circumstances, I think it is quite defensible. Also Clippers don't have much upside above the #23 slot they have this year, so with a little luck we are talking about a late teens pick, which would make the trade a good value.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#29 » by ryaningf » Wed May 3, 2017 6:58 pm

smart_celtics wrote:
ryaningf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
In 2016, none. But there were none worth taking. The only players drafted after Yabusele who did anything in 2016 were Brogdon and Labissiere (after Boogie was traded). Caris LeVert looked ok, but even he barely played 20 minutes on the NBA's worst team.


McCaw had a comparable rookie year to Jaylen Brown, as did Luwawu. Korkmaz or Zagorac were possible stash candidates.

Taking Yabu is a defensible move. Trading #31 & #36 for a late first (likely a 2nd, given the protections) is not, especially when the likely ROY was available at those picks and Ainge was reportedly itching to select him.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/03/malcolm_brogdon_boston_celtics.html


Here's my defense of trading #31 & 36 for a future first - We had a roster crunch and no place to put extra rookies, so we traded for a future asset that is more likely to be traded then used. In isolation not the best value trade, but given the circumstances, I think it is quite defensible. Also Clippers don't have much upside above the #23 slot they have this year, so with a little luck we are talking about a late teens pick, which would make the trade a good value.


It was a roster crunch precipitated by the junk that litters the end of the bench....Mickey, Young, Green, Zeller, Jackson and Rozier (who is looking tradeable finally).

The 2016 draft had atypical first round value between picks 10-40. Not sure how this future first will turn out, could be late teens, could be a second rounder if it doesn't convey right away but the depth of the draft will not likely be better than it was in 2016. In essence, it was a 2 for 1 trade that Danny was happy to make because he wasted 1/3 of his roster on guys with little value.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#30 » by smart_celtics » Wed May 3, 2017 8:21 pm

ryaningf wrote:
smart_celtics wrote:
ryaningf wrote:
McCaw had a comparable rookie year to Jaylen Brown, as did Luwawu. Korkmaz or Zagorac were possible stash candidates.

Taking Yabu is a defensible move. Trading #31 & #36 for a late first (likely a 2nd, given the protections) is not, especially when the likely ROY was available at those picks and Ainge was reportedly itching to select him.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/03/malcolm_brogdon_boston_celtics.html


Here's my defense of trading #31 & 36 for a future first - We had a roster crunch and no place to put extra rookies, so we traded for a future asset that is more likely to be traded then used. In isolation not the best value trade, but given the circumstances, I think it is quite defensible. Also Clippers don't have much upside above the #23 slot they have this year, so with a little luck we are talking about a late teens pick, which would make the trade a good value.


It was a roster crunch precipitated by the junk that litters the end of the bench....Mickey, Young, Green, Zeller, Jackson and Rozier (who is looking tradeable finally).

The 2016 draft had atypical first round value between picks 10-40. Not sure how this future first will turn out, could be late teens, could be a second rounder if it doesn't convey right away but the depth of the draft will not likely be better than it was in 2016. In essence, it was a 2 for 1 trade that Danny was happy to make because he wasted 1/3 of his roster on guys with little value.


Green - Was brought in to provide veteran bench scoring and helped us win the Chicago series. You could not have an expectation of any 2nd round rookie doing that (even if Brogdan did end up doing that).
Zeller - Veteran back-up big who knows the system and provides replacement level production. Also has a valuable tradeable contract that can be used in the draft.
Rozier - You note that he is showing more value than one would expect from a 2nd round rookie (or even a late first rookie).
Mickey - is trash but seems like the team was expecting him to take a step forward and didn't realize until he came back injured for summer league that he wasn't making that step forward.
Young - is trash but I think at the time they were still holding out hope that they could flip Young or Hunter for something of value. He also knows the system better than a rookie.
Jackson - is one of your second round picks who had a first round grade. I am guessing they didn't trade the later 2nd round pick because the Grizzlies weren't willing to make that deal. Also drafting two 2nd round picks would likely result in just cutting Jackson like Bentil and getting no value for that pick at all.

So I think the argument would be- They should have cut Mickey and Young (along with Hunter) and then carried 3 second round rookies on the roster (along with Jaylen). Unclear if the value of those rookies in a couple years would be better trade bait then a late first round pick (particularly since the trade partner might not like those players.)

TLDR: I can see it either way but its understandable why he might want to convert those current assets into future assets even at a discount given the desire to keep flexibility for a future Butler/PG-type deal.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#31 » by sully00 » Thu May 4, 2017 6:14 pm

ryaningf wrote:
smart_celtics wrote:
ryaningf wrote:
McCaw had a comparable rookie year to Jaylen Brown, as did Luwawu. Korkmaz or Zagorac were possible stash candidates.

Taking Yabu is a defensible move. Trading #31 & #36 for a late first (likely a 2nd, given the protections) is not, especially when the likely ROY was available at those picks and Ainge was reportedly itching to select him.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/03/malcolm_brogdon_boston_celtics.html


Here's my defense of trading #31 & 36 for a future first - We had a roster crunch and no place to put extra rookies, so we traded for a future asset that is more likely to be traded then used. In isolation not the best value trade, but given the circumstances, I think it is quite defensible. Also Clippers don't have much upside above the #23 slot they have this year, so with a little luck we are talking about a late teens pick, which would make the trade a good value.


It was a roster crunch precipitated by the junk that litters the end of the bench....Mickey, Young, Green, Zeller, Jackson and Rozier (who is looking tradeable finally).

The 2016 draft had atypical first round value between picks 10-40. Not sure how this future first will turn out, could be late teens, could be a second rounder if it doesn't convey right away but the depth of the draft will not likely be better than it was in 2016. In essence, it was a 2 for 1 trade that Danny was happy to make because he wasted 1/3 of his roster on guys with little value.

The argument against what you are saying is that the junk available at 31+ is not better than the junk on the roster especially when you still have to burn 3 more picks. Brogdan had a great season for MIL but was expected to be a middle of the second round player. Boston took Demtrius Jackson at 45 (where Brogdan was projected) Jackson was expected to be a first round pick and had even been considered a late lottery pick.

So keeping 31 and 35 doesn't necessarily change who Boston drafts just where they are drafted. As the team gets more and more competitive you can only have so many developmental roster spots, that will increase some next year but for this season it was a challenge.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#32 » by theman » Thu May 4, 2017 7:12 pm

ValenciaCeltics wrote:He was told that he was going to be picked by the Boston Celtics at pick#16, but then, the Nuggets picked him at pick#15, when he actually knew nothing about Denver' interest on him. Also, according to him, looks like the Celtics were thinking about leaving him one more year in Europe. He also told that playing for the Celtics and living in Boston would have been great.

So, the Celtics picking Yabusele in the 16th pick was a last minute move, I guess.



This was reported during the draft. Yabusele was a clear fall back after Hernangomez was off the board.

I would have prefered Zizic at 16 and Skal Labissiere at 23 but they likely wouldn't have been able to stash Skal. It was pretty clear Ainge was going to stash #16 and #23 to save cap space for his Max signing. Which is the same reason no smaller deal was done this season at the trade deadline.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#33 » by ryaningf » Thu May 4, 2017 9:27 pm

sully00 wrote:The argument against what you are saying is that the junk available at 31+ is not better than the junk on the roster especially when you still have to burn 3 more picks. Brogdan had a great season for MIL but was expected to be a middle of the second round player. Boston took Demtrius Jackson at 45 (where Brogdan was projected) Jackson was expected to be a first round pick and had even been considered a late lottery pick.

So keeping 31 and 35 doesn't necessarily change who Boston drafts just where they are drafted. As the team gets more and more competitive you can only have so many developmental roster spots, that will increase some next year but for this season it was a challenge.


The undercurrent of this discussion is that asset maximization has a saturation point and it's great if you can acquire all those picks (and Danny is a master of that) but it's not great if you can't use them or use them well. That's the crux of the issue: Danny made poor picks and they left him unable to use the future picks he had so deftly acquired.

It's a little messy but I would have been fine just using all the draft picks and letting them fight it out in training camp. The justification in the King article that drives me up a wall is that they didn't take Brogdon because they were worried that he'd get in the way of Jaylen's development. That's just crap (if true).
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#34 » by ValenciaCeltics » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:55 pm

Well... I posted this thread some years ago. It was clear that Ainge was going to draft Juancho, and when Denver picked him first, he had to change and pick Yabusele instead. It's ironic that Juancho finally arrived to the Celtics years later.... but since Stevens traded for him, i guess we can say that Ainge and Stevens both agreed about him.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#35 » by captain green » Fri Sep 3, 2021 5:02 pm

Full circle complete lol
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#36 » by ParticleMan » Fri Sep 3, 2021 5:25 pm

is it zombie thread week or something? did i miss the memo?
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#37 » by djFan71 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 5:31 pm

ParticleMan wrote:is it zombie thread week or something? did i miss the memo?

I think the memo is in a thread from 2013. Let me bump it for you.
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#38 » by Joshyjess » Fri Sep 3, 2021 6:14 pm

It's the circle, the circle of life!!!!
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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#39 » by 31to6 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:52 pm

i thought the multiverse was an annoying Marvel movie thing

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Re: Juancho Hernangómez on Celtics 

Post#40 » by Homerclease » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:21 pm

Yabusele is the worst Celtics draft pick since Jerome Moiso

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