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[Stillwater]

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Not sure I believe it . the part about Lebron not being given the straight.
But I guess it wouldn't surprise me this entire scenario has more to do with why Lebron left than Irving actually being gone, I mean if he is was being told one thing and 15 min later the exact opposite happens, it proves Gilbert was holding the threat of trading Irving over Lebron trying to get him to commit long term and when he still refused to do so, Gilbert gave Irving what he wanted buying into a lottery pick as the best case scenario return knowing without Lebrons commitment when Gilbert needed it the most he was gone anyway.

If Ainge had yet to put the Brooklyn pick on the table, and the next best offer was meh, I could see Gilbert grabbing it while it was there.

I don't ...I mean they made a fuss over the miami 2nd . picks were Gilberts main interest for Irving and the Nets pick was the highest offer.

[jbk1234]

Not sure I believe it . the part about Lebron not being given the straight.
But I guess it wouldn't surprise me this entire scenario has more to do with why Lebron left than Irving actually being gone, I mean if he is was being told one thing and 15 min later the exact opposite happens, it proves Gilbert was holding the threat of trading Irving over Lebron trying to get him to commit long term and when he still refused to do so, Gilbert gave Irving what he wanted buying into a lottery pick as the best case scenario return knowing without Lebrons commitment when Gilbert needed it the most he was gone anyway.

If Ainge had yet to put the Brooklyn pick on the table, and the next best offer was meh, I could see Gilbert grabbing it while it was there.

I don't ...I mean they made a fuss over the miami 2nd . picks were Gilberts main interest for Irving and the Nets pick was the highest offer.

It was pretty widely reported that LBJ wanted them to void the trade as soon as the full extent of IT's injury became known. Frankly, I don't really care what the F.O. told LBJ. LBJ could've sat down with Kyrie and tried to work things out. He didn't. I'd feel differently had he done so.

[jbk1234]

FYI, looks like love will be out until mid January now: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25334472/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-expects-remain-new-year

[Stillwater]

FYI, looks like love will be out until mid January now: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25334472/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-expects-remain-new-year

Might as well just keep him out all season at this point...Maybe that's what set Smith off to take his disgruntled attitude a step further. All this the Org knew they were going to be in development mode with no intention of competing back in the summer is false. Smith has to know it is false but cannot accept his diminished role and is using that benching as fuel to justify pumping up his value somehow hoping some team will see him as an asset, like the Cavs would be winning games if he was starting. It's not like Hill or Love are available to help with the original plan of developing and playing for a 8th seed.
I think it's pretty obvious now they don't expect to win enough games even if Love returned to justify sacrificing playing time for the younger players in the hopes of winning a few more games. I wouldn't call it tanking, and more so just sucking hard as they work to develop the roster for the future...not really the same thing as benching vets that would actually help them win, but if Love staying out is or was a suggestion by the org to Love, I would be inclined to think tanking is the goal at this point.

[jbk1234]

FYI, looks like love will be out until mid January now: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25334472/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-expects-remain-new-year

Might as well just keep him out all season at this point...Maybe that's what set Smith off to take his disgruntled attitude a step further. All this the Org knew they were going to be in development mode with no intention of competing back in the summer is false. Smith has to know it is false but cannot accept his diminished role and is using that benching as fuel to justify pumping up his value somehow hoping some team will see him as an asset, like the Cavs would be winning games if he was starting. It's not like Hill or Love are available to help with the original plan of developing and playing for a 8th seed.
I think it's pretty obvious now they don't expect to win enough games even if Love returned to justify sacrificing playing time for the younger players in the hopes of winning a few more games. I wouldn't call it tanking, and more so just sucking hard as they work to develop the roster for the future...not really the same thing as benching vets that would actually help them win, but if Love staying out is or was a suggestion by the org to Love, I would be inclined to think tanking is the goal at this point.

I'd bet $100 to $10 that what set JR off is Klutch found a trade for JR that Klutch thinks was good enough for the Cavs, and the Cavs disagree. Frankly, this is another reason why leverage and the absence of good will in contract negotiations matter. The Cavs feel no obligation to do JR a solid and take a worse deal, nor should they.

[Stillwater]

FYI, looks like love will be out until mid January now: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25334472/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-expects-remain-new-year

Might as well just keep him out all season at this point...Maybe that's what set Smith off to take his disgruntled attitude a step further. All this the Org knew they were going to be in development mode with no intention of competing back in the summer is false. Smith has to know it is false but cannot accept his diminished role and is using that benching as fuel to justify pumping up his value somehow hoping some team will see him as an asset, like the Cavs would be winning games if he was starting. It's not like Hill or Love are available to help with the original plan of developing and playing for a 8th seed.
I think it's pretty obvious now they don't expect to win enough games even if Love returned to justify sacrificing playing time for the younger players in the hopes of winning a few more games. I wouldn't call it tanking, and more so just sucking hard as they work to develop the roster for the future...not really the same thing as benching vets that would actually help them win, but if Love staying out is or was a suggestion by the org to Love, I would be inclined to think tanking is the goal at this point.

I'd bet $100 to $10 that what set JR off is Klutch found a trade for JR that Klutch thinks was good enough for the Cavs, and the Cavs disagree. Frankly, this is another reason why leverage and the absence of good will in contract negotiations matter. The Cavs feel no obligation to do JR a solid and take a worse deal, nor should they.

makes sense as well but the timing of it seems to go along with loves extended timeline as well as Smith likely embarrassment of teams record with LBJ bring Nat media in the city etc

[jbk1234]

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[Stillwater]

^ funny how they don't achknowledge the rule changes

[jbk1234]

This won't happen, but it would be great if it did:

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[Stillwater]

This won't happen, but it would be great if it did:

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you know it will happen now , awesome

[JonFromVA]

This won't happen, but it would be great if it did:

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you know it will happen now , awesome

lol, but what if the Cavs win the lottery and take someone other than Zion?

Zion is doing great, but the Cavs could convince themselves another player has higher NBA upside.

[jbk1234]

This won't happen, but it would be great if it did:

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you know it will happen now , awesome

lol, but what if the Cavs win the lottery and take someone other than Zion?

Zion is doing great, but the Cavs could convince themselves another player has higher NBA upside.

I mean Simmons is going nowhere. This is like when Rush said he'd leave the country if the ACA is passed. He'll be right back proposing Smart, filler and seconds for AD trades the next season.

[Stillwater]

This won't happen, but it would be great if it did:

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you know it will happen now , awesome

lol, but what if the Cavs win the lottery and take someone other than Zion?

Zion is doing great, but the Cavs could convince themselves another player has higher NBA upside.

Looking at other prospects right now I doubt anyone would pass on Zion , but it's a long time till draft day so that could change for sure

[JonFromVA]

you know it will happen now , awesome

lol, but what if the Cavs win the lottery and take someone other than Zion?

Zion is doing great, but the Cavs could convince themselves another player has higher NBA upside.

Looking at other prospects right now I doubt anyone would pass on Zion , but it's a long time till draft day so that could change for sure

Not to discount what Williamson can do, but just seems we might want a player with more all around skills (especially shooting which is at a premium). If you think he's the next Charles Barkley, yeah, sure ... you take him. The next Blake Griffin? You'd be happy to take him, but might get more mileage from a multi-skilled wing with hopefully plus size for his position.

[Stillwater]

lol, but what if the Cavs win the lottery and take someone other than Zion?

Zion is doing great, but the Cavs could convince themselves another player has higher NBA upside.

Looking at other prospects right now I doubt anyone would pass on Zion , but it's a long time till draft day so that could change for sure

Not to discount what Williamson can do, but just seems we might want a player with more all around skills (especially shooting which is at a premium). If you think he's the next Charles Barkley, yeah, sure ... you take him. The next Blake Griffin? You'd be happy to take him, but might get more mileage from a multi-skilled wing with hopefully plus size for his position.

he's been pretty impressive as a shooter in addition to all of his intangibles and high IQ etc. I don't think Barrett although sharing the ball more of late is the same caliber prospect if that's who you were implying but I could be wrong.
Cavs could be somewhat high on Bol as well, but my guess is with the injury being a sign of things to come with him given his build etc they would pass unless the pick is 5 or later and even then it's questionable.
I like Barrett if we are 2nd or after but still have Zion as their top prospect if he slips a spot.
I'd take Kevin Porter if both were gone at 3 over Little and Reddish right now. Subject to change.
Porter,Reddish,Little in that order at 4-6 might make exception in that range for DeAndre Hunter if Cavs move Love.
sleepers in 7-10 range over Bol and others like Grimes and Langford for CLE imo are sophs KZ Okpala and Brandon Randolph who would be great fits here , but who am I kidding the pick is going to be top 3.
I could see CLE having interest in others 9-10 range if they somehow flip the script and start winning some games like Rui and Bassey but only if Love is getting moved.

[JonFromVA]

Looking at other prospects right now I doubt anyone would pass on Zion , but it's a long time till draft day so that could change for sure

Not to discount what Williamson can do, but just seems we might want a player with more all around skills (especially shooting which is at a premium). If you think he's the next Charles Barkley, yeah, sure ... you take him. The next Blake Griffin? You'd be happy to take him, but might get more mileage from a multi-skilled wing with hopefully plus size for his position.

he's been pretty impressive as a shooter in addition to all of his intangibles and high IQ etc. I don't think Barrett although sharing the ball more of late is the same caliber prospect if that's who you were implying but I could be wrong.
Cavs could be somewhat high on Bol as well, but my guess is with the injury being a sign of things to come with him given his build etc they would pass unless the pick is 5 or later and even then it's questionable.
I like Barrett if we are 2nd or after but still have Zion as their top prospect if he slips a spot.
I'd take Kevin Porter if both were gone at 3 over Little and Reddish right now. Subject to change.
Porter,Reddish,Little in that order at 4-6 might make exception in that range for DeAndre Hunter if Cavs move Love.
sleepers in 7-10 range over Bol and others like Grimes and Langford for CLE imo are sophs KZ Okpala and Brandon Randolph who would be great fits here , but who am I kidding the pick is going to be top 3.
I could see CLE having interest in others 9-10 range if they somehow flip the script and start winning some games like Rui and Bassey but only if Love is getting moved.

Yeah, I understand Barrett's limitations are coming out, and Reddish seems to be struggling with his shot which was supposed to be his strong suite. So, I wasn't trying to imply who we'd take if not Zion, just that if someone else emerges we might prefer a different skill set than Zion seems to have.

Whatever we do, it sure would be nice if Dan Gilbert would invest some more of his money in to player development. Hate to see the Cavs wreck the development of any of these kids because they don't know how to teach them.

[jbk1234]

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[jbk1234]

I get the sense that Wolves fans are far angrier about the K. Love trade now than they were when it was made. The decision to max Wiggins is proving disastrous and they're awfully testy on the T&T board.

[jbk1234]

Looks like Klutch got the Bucks. It's only been five minutes since they lost and their fans are already looking to dump Bledsoe. They just extended him. This was entirely foreseeable.

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[JonFromVA]

For anybody keeping score, the Laker's Rob Pelinka (now being accused of being a pathological liar) was Carlos Loozer's agent when he lied to Gordon Gund's face about his commitment to the team and was fired from his agency over the debacle.