Case Keenum

Celtsfan1980 · Post #1 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:28 pm

Unless he struggles he will get paid soon. How much would you pay for him?

hermes · Post #2 » by **hermes** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:05 am

i don't know but its getting to the point where the vikings probably need to try and make sure they keep him

a few games ago i would have thought eventually teddy would get in and show something and they'd let case walk and keep teddy. now it might be the reverse

Otis Driftwood · Post #3 » by **Otis Driftwood** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:58 am

Tough call. But good for Case.

Post #4 » by **FNQ** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:06 am

If the Vikings let him go, they are stupid... 15-20m/yr for 4-5 years. Teddy is not a franchise talent, so you don’t discard Keenum

Post #5 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:37 am

FNQ wrote:If the Vikings let him go, they are stupid... 15-20m/yr for 4-5 years. Teddy is not a franchise talent, so you don’t discard Keenum

I don’t know if that’s obvious, when a 29 year old QB plays this far above his previous standard it’s hard not to worry that it’s a fluke. Assuming the Vikings do sign Case, I think they also will want to do something to mitigate the risk, like drafting a guy relatively high or resigning Bridgewater to compete with him.

laika · Post #6 » by **laika** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:59 am

Nick Foles was a lot better than Keenum. Fluke years happen sometimes. The salary cap is strict enough that you can only afford to bet on one QB. I would still take Bridgewater unless you think he will have chronic injury problems.

bmurph128 · Post #7 » by **bmurph128** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:33 pm

Really depends. If they don't win a playoff game...

Post #8 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:58 pm

laika wrote:Nick Foles was a lot better than Keenum. Fluke years happen sometimes. The salary cap is strict enough that you can only afford to bet on one QB. I would still take Bridgewater unless you think he will have chronic injury problems.

I'm guessing the Vikings can probably sign both Bridgewater and Keenum for less than what the elite starters get. It's hard to say what the market will be for a guy like Bridgewater though.

hermes · Post #9 » by **hermes** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:14 am

i know teams are always desperate for a qb but i agree that the market for teddy probably isn't on fire right now

we just saw him play for the first time in 2 years and there is plenty of rust to shake off

Post #10 » by **FNQ** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:28 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
FNQ wrote:If the Vikings let him go, they are stupid... 15-20m/yr for 4-5 years. Teddy is not a franchise talent, so you don’t discard Keenum

I don’t know if that’s obvious, when a 29 year old QB plays this far above his previous standard it’s hard not to worry that it’s a fluke. Assuming the Vikings do sign Case, I think they also will want to do something to mitigate the risk, like drafting a guy relatively high or resigning Bridgewater to compete with him.

Normally I would agree, but this is a guy who's unseated starters for several years now. He looks the part of Rich Gannon, a guy tabbed as a high-end backup/fringe starter who finally finds a system that works for him. I was onto Keenum early this year as a guy who could sustain this, mainly because the OL is giving him sufficient time, and he's got the confidence of having a good defense behind him.

Maybe mitigate the risk by making it a frontloaded, year-to-year type deal.. but Keenum has been a huge part of the Vikings success this year - and unlike Teddy, I think Keenum is more than a game manager. He can do that too, but he's also been able to make crucial throws and runs. Moving on from him.. barring a playoff meltdown, it just cant happen

Post #11 » by **FNQ** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:36 pm

laika wrote:Nick Foles was a lot better than Keenum. Fluke years happen sometimes. The salary cap is strict enough that you can only afford to bet on one QB. I would still take Bridgewater unless you think he will have chronic injury problems.

Nick Foles was never, ever better than Keenum's been this year. Foles was the product of an unseen system in the NFL. Keenum is taking the basic offense that's been seen many times before, and is excelling in it, because for the first time in his career he's actually got a + pass blocking OL. He's basically this generation's Doug Flutie - a guy who was totally passed over for his height and perceived lack of athleticism.

Teddy two gloves has been nothing but a game manager up to this point in his career. And from what I remember, a healthy Teddy had a hard time fighting the elements, and had minimal ability to go vertical.

Keenum right now is better than Teddy has ever been. And he's actually breathed life into a very vanilla passing game. Teddy might wind up being a starter somewhere in the Alex Smith mold, but if the Vikings walk away from Keenum, they deserve their fate.

Post #12 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:44 pm

FNQ wrote:
laika wrote:Nick Foles was a lot better than Keenum. Fluke years happen sometimes. The salary cap is strict enough that you can only afford to bet on one QB. I would still take Bridgewater unless you think he will have chronic injury problems.

Nick Foles was never, ever better than Keenum's been this year. Foles was the product of an unseen system in the NFL. Keenum is taking the basic offense that's been seen many times before, and is excelling in it, because for the first time in his career he's actually got a + pass blocking OL. He's basically this generation's Doug Flutie - a guy who was totally passed over for his height and perceived lack of athleticism.

Teddy two gloves has been nothing but a game manager up to this point in his career. And from what I remember, a healthy Teddy had a hard time fighting the elements, and had minimal ability to go vertical.

Keenum right now is better than Teddy has ever been. And he's actually breathed life into a very vanilla passing game. Teddy might wind up being a starter somewhere in the Alex Smith mold, but if the Vikings walk away from Keenum, they deserve their fate.

You can criticize what Teddy accomplished when he was the starter, but you should also remember the last time he started a game he was 23. He was still super young for a QB. Case wasn't even in the league at 23.

Post #13 » by **FNQ** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:56 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
FNQ wrote:
laika wrote:Nick Foles was a lot better than Keenum. Fluke years happen sometimes. The salary cap is strict enough that you can only afford to bet on one QB. I would still take Bridgewater unless you think he will have chronic injury problems.

Nick Foles was never, ever better than Keenum's been this year. Foles was the product of an unseen system in the NFL. Keenum is taking the basic offense that's been seen many times before, and is excelling in it, because for the first time in his career he's actually got a + pass blocking OL. He's basically this generation's Doug Flutie - a guy who was totally passed over for his height and perceived lack of athleticism.

Teddy two gloves has been nothing but a game manager up to this point in his career. And from what I remember, a healthy Teddy had a hard time fighting the elements, and had minimal ability to go vertical.

Keenum right now is better than Teddy has ever been. And he's actually breathed life into a very vanilla passing game. Teddy might wind up being a starter somewhere in the Alex Smith mold, but if the Vikings walk away from Keenum, they deserve their fate.

You can criticize what Teddy accomplished when he was the starter, but you should also remember the last time he started a game he was 23. He was still super young for a QB. Case wasn't even in the league at 23.

That's true, but for the Vikings, should that matter? Keenum isnt exactly old - 29 is right in his prime - and the Vikings are legitimate contenders, even while missing a franchise RB.

But I think its fair to say that Teddy couldnt have improved very much while injured - more likely the opposite, in fact - so he's likely to be a few years away from as good as he could be. But that said, a lot of the issues I had with Teddy probably wont change over time: he's a short yardage to mid yardage passer who seems to become much worse in any elements, and I dont see how he can be better than Keenum is now based on that.

All that said, I dont see any team forking over big bucks to get Teddy and I wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see the Vikings offer him a 1 year deal in the short term, that he accepts, in case Keenum does peter out. Probably the best case scenario for all involved. Only other team I see being a fit right now is Buffalo, and then we'll really test out how he does against the elements.

Miami might fit too, but they'd have to be serious about using Drake as a workhorse. Beyond those two teams, I dont see any team in the NFL that has a strong need for a game managing QB/strong run game that doesnt already have a significant investment at QB (Chicago, KC)

IMO, outside of the Eagles and maybe the Rams, Vikings have the best future looking forward to the next 2-3 years.. so much talent on both sides of the ball. So that makes Keenum the priority and Teddy the luxury. I would call him the 'upside' guy.. but outside of draft position, I just dont see why Keenum doesnt have more upside.

Post #14 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:23 pm

I don't know that idea that Teddy becomes much worse in the elements is really a fair, fully developed criticism. He didn't play great in the one super cold playoff game he had, but also led the Vikings on what should have been a game winning drive if it weren't for a missed chip shot field goal. He didn't have any turnovers and completed 70% of his passes.
I do tend agree that the Vikings probably will resign Case, but I also think they need a backup plan, whether it's Teddy or someone else. The last 2 times the Vikings were really good, it was with QB's who had 1 good year in purple before falling off.

RavenMad31 · Post #15 » by **RavenMad31** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:22 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I don't know that idea that Teddy becomes much worse in the elements is really a fair, fully developed criticism. He didn't play great in the one super cold playoff game he had, but also led the Vikings on what should have been a game winning drive if it weren't for a missed chip shot field goal. He didn't have any turnovers and completed 70% of his passes.
I do tend agree that the Vikings probably will resign Case, but I also think they need a backup plan, whether it's Teddy or someone else. The last 2 times the Vikings were really good, it was with QB's who had 1 good year in purple before falling off.

I think if Keenum wins Minnesota at least one playoff game and plays reasonably well in the postseason as a whole, he has to be the starter going forward. I think it would be difficult to keep Teddy in any capacity if this ends up being the case, so you shop him at the end of the year. As far as Bradford, if he wants to stick around as a clearly defined backup, that's fine. You go into 2018 with probably the best backup QB in the league. I believe he's a free agent at the end of the year, so that'd be up to him and the price would have to be right.
If Keenum flops, you go into 2018 with the assumption that Bridgewater, who is good enough to win with this team assuming good health, is your starter.

Post #16 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:35 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:I don't know that idea that Teddy becomes much worse in the elements is really a fair, fully developed criticism. He didn't play great in the one super cold playoff game he had, but also led the Vikings on what should have been a game winning drive if it weren't for a missed chip shot field goal. He didn't have any turnovers and completed 70% of his passes.
I do tend agree that the Vikings probably will resign Case, but I also think they need a backup plan, whether it's Teddy or someone else. The last 2 times the Vikings were really good, it was with QB's who had 1 good year in purple before falling off.

I think if Keenum wins Minnesota at least one playoff game and plays reasonably well in the postseason as a whole, he has to be the starter going forward. I think it would be difficult to keep Teddy in any capacity if this ends up being the case, so you shop him at the end of the year. As far as Bradford, if he wants to stick around as a clearly defined backup, that's fine. You go into 2018 with probably the best backup QB in the league. I believe he's a free agent at the end of the year, so that'd be up to him and the price would have to be right.
If Keenum flops, you go into 2018 with the assumption that Bridgewater, who is good enough to win with this team assuming good health, is your starter.

All 3 are free agents, so there is no trading anybody. I do think we probably resign Case at this point. I don't know that Teddy couldn't come back as the backup, that's his choice and it depends on what else is available to him. I would say the same for Bradford. If either Teddy or Bradford is willing come back as a backup, at a reasonable price that would be great, but I also wouldn't surprised if it doesn't happen.
I also don't quite know if Keenum is the next Rich Gannon or the next Ryan Fitzpatrick/Josh McCown, so it would be nice if we have another option if things don't go as well next year.

RavenMad31 · Post #17 » by **RavenMad31** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:33 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:I don't know that idea that Teddy becomes much worse in the elements is really a fair, fully developed criticism. He didn't play great in the one super cold playoff game he had, but also led the Vikings on what should have been a game winning drive if it weren't for a missed chip shot field goal. He didn't have any turnovers and completed 70% of his passes.
I do tend agree that the Vikings probably will resign Case, but I also think they need a backup plan, whether it's Teddy or someone else. The last 2 times the Vikings were really good, it was with QB's who had 1 good year in purple before falling off.

I think if Keenum wins Minnesota at least one playoff game and plays reasonably well in the postseason as a whole, he has to be the starter going forward. I think it would be difficult to keep Teddy in any capacity if this ends up being the case, so you shop him at the end of the year. As far as Bradford, if he wants to stick around as a clearly defined backup, that's fine. You go into 2018 with probably the best backup QB in the league. I believe he's a free agent at the end of the year, so that'd be up to him and the price would have to be right.
If Keenum flops, you go into 2018 with the assumption that Bridgewater, who is good enough to win with this team assuming good health, is your starter.

All 3 are free agents, so there is no trading anybody. I do think we probably resign Case at this point. I don't know that Teddy couldn't come back as the backup, that's his choice and it depends on what else is available to him. I would say the same for Bradford. If either Teddy or Bradford is willing come back as a backup, at a reasonable price that would be great, but I also wouldn't surprised if it doesn't happen.
I also don't quite know if Keenum is the next Rich Gannon or the next Ryan Fitzpatrick/Josh McCown, so it would be nice if we have another option if things don't go as well next year.

Oh, I wasn't sure what Keenum and Bridgewater's contract situations were. That's the good thing about the upcoming playoffs. It'll give Minnesota some clarity on what they have in Keenum. Fitzgerald, for instance, would crumble in any game where his team had a chance to prove something.

hermes · Post #18 » by **hermes** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:15 am

i think bradford is gone for sure, case will likely get resigned and if teddy wants to come back they are probably going to do what they can to keep him (a lot of people in the organization - including zimmer, and the twin cites really like teddy)

Post #19 » by **HMFFL** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:53 am

Locking him up will be key for the teams short-term success. If he continues to perform the long-term will be bright obviously, but they must have stability now, and for next season. Everything is positive in Minny right now so I hope they stay on the right track.

Post #20 » by **Worm Guts** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:14 pm

hermes wrote:i think bradford is gone for sure, case will likely get resigned and if teddy wants to come back they are probably going to do what they can to keep him (a lot of people in the organization - including zimmer, and the twin cites really like teddy)

Most likely. I think the Vikings want to keep Teddy even if its as a backup. Whether Bradford is an option at all, I don't know.