Fixing the Denver bench

youngthegiant · Post #1 » by **youngthegiant** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:05 am

Denver's depth was supposed to be one of it's biggest strengths but the combinations Malone has thrown out have been terrible. Jokic shouldn't have to pulled early to carry the bench unit. One of the reasons I believe the bench hasn't worked is because the guys being played just don't work together. Barton has been having play with ball in his hands more because Devin Harris isn't a true pg. Barton ends up dribbling too much when he should be playing without the ball a little more. Trey Lyles and Mason Plumlee are a bad fit. Lyles likes to drive and operate in the post, but Plumlee's man can just sag off and contest the drive or double on the post, essentially neutralizing Lyles. Steps I would take to fix this issue.

1.) Get a real point guard. Someone who can actually play with the ball and put guys in positions to succeed.

2.) Trade Trey Lyles. Lyles at this point has a good amount of value. Use him to possibly move up in the draft or for another prospect that fills a need.

3.) Play Juancho again. We all saw the flashes and even when he got some run against the lakers, you could see why fans called him the pf of the future. He hustles, rebounds, moves off the ball, and is an elite shooter. Malone loves to play Torrey Craig but I think he should playing Juancho, has a lot more skill along with his hustle and energy. Juancho looked energized last time he played, poor decision that Malone never went back to him.

4.) Keep Barton for the right price. Barton takes a lot of heat but I think his struggles have come with how often he is asked to basically play pg. Barton is a scorer primarily.

5.) You have your floor spacer/off ball player(Juancho), scorer(Barton), All around Center(Plumlee),a real pg(????)...Now that second unit needs a defender. The hope would be Denver can get a sf in the draft that they can develop. Miles Bridges, Kevin Knox, Troy Brown Jr. would all be good options. As well as finding a replacement for Chandler(it's time to trade him) Shai Gilgeuos Alexander would be an option at pg, such a smooth and under control game.

Post #2 » by **NuggetsWY** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:53 am

1.) PG for the bench? Not a bad idea but another option is similar to what GSW & SAS do and Malone seems to be trying and that is, keeping one of the true stars on the floor with the bench. Jokic & Murray are our two best play makers, and we don't seem to have a third best. So he's pulling Jokic early to bring him back with the bench. It isn't working, but it's the best he's got. So I'll agree with you on this one. Morris looks like he can be that guy but that's in the G-League. It would be nice if he got to spend some time with the Nuggets, just to see what he's got.

2.) Trade Lyles? No thank you. I think he'll fit nice next to Jokic. He's not a bad outside shooter and he's not afraid to drive. His handles are good for a PF plus he actually hustles on defense. All we need is someone that can teach him to play defense smarter. Then again, he might be our best reasonable asset for trading up in the draft. I'm just not sure he'll have enough value to make that big of a difference. Either way, we don't know because Malone prefers not to play him, at least not enough IMO.

3.) Play Juancho? I've said that before. He'd be a great fit on our bench because of his range. Of course that's the same reason he might fit as the 5th starter. He'll space the floor and isn't afraid to drive. Like Lyles, he hustles on defense but needs to learn from someone who truly understands defense.

4.) Keep Barton? I love his hustle and he can sure bring it on some nights. But when he's having an off night he still keeps shooting. The reason I'd like to see him walk is because he often seems confused and lost on defense and his man often blows right past him on the way to the basket. Of course on offense, he's a liability when Malone keeps playing him at PG. But that's not on Barton. If we had a different coach, I wouldn't mind keeping Barton.

5.) Bench rotation? Yeah, it's all messed up. Craig looks like a good 3nD but Malone doesn't seem to like him one game and the next he likes him - hard to figure.

6.) My addition - the number one thing Denver can do to fix the bench is to get a coach that understands player rotations and how to use a player in his best role and how to run an offense that works (without trying to over-control) and how to play defense. Malone's great on TV in interviews and he's an encourager, but his coaching leaves much to be desired.

Post #3 » by **The Rebel** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:12 pm

youngthegiant wrote:Denver's depth was supposed to be one of it's biggest strengths but the combinations Malone has thrown out have been terrible. Jokic shouldn't have to pulled early to carry the bench unit. One of the reasons I believe the bench hasn't worked is because the guys being played just don't work together. Barton has been having play with ball in his hands more because Devin Harris isn't a true pg. Barton ends up dribbling too much when he should be playing without the ball a little more. Trey Lyles and Mason Plumlee are a bad fit. Lyles likes to drive and operate in the post, but Plumlee's man can just sag off and contest the drive or double on the post, essentially neutralizing Lyles. Steps I would take to fix this issue.

1.) Get a real point guard. Someone who can actually play with the ball and put guys in positions to succeed.

Devin Harris is an has always been a score 1st PG, but any PG would struggle with the lineups that Malone uses off the bench, Barton is way to ball dominant and has to be to be effective.

youngthegiant wrote:2.) Trade Trey Lyles. Lyles at this point has a good amount of value. Use him to possibly move up in the draft or for another prospect that fills a need.

For the right price I would trade Lyles specifically because I think he is a bad defender and not likely to get much better.

youngthegiant wrote:3.) Play Juancho again. We all saw the flashes and even when he got some run against the lakers, you could see why fans called him the pf of the future. He hustles, rebounds, moves off the ball, and is an elite shooter. Malone loves to play Torrey Craig but I think he should playing Juancho, has a lot more skill along with his hustle and energy. Juancho looked energized last time he played, poor decision that Malone never went back to him.

Juancho struggles to keep up with smaller perimeter players, he and Craig should be getting minutes together, and Lyles should be traded. IN fact I would prefer to trade Chandler and put Craig in as starter with a draft pick and an older veteran to back him up. Craig brings effort and energy, can keep up with perimeter players, and is a good off the ball player for an offense with Jokic, Murray, and Millsap all being able to create and play with the ball in their hands. So you can have a utility guy like Craig at SF and it will improve the defense while not hurting the offense.

youngthegiant wrote:4.) Keep Barton for the right price. Barton takes a lot of heat but I think his struggles have come with how often he is asked to basically play pg. Barton is a scorer primarily.

Barton is a major reason our bench is a bottom 3 bench in the league, there is no way I want him back. He is in every combination of the worst defenders, and he is only effective when he is given the ball and let play how he wants to play. He is inconsistent when he has the ball in his hands, still makes stupid mistakes all the time, is bad when he is not getting the ball in his hands, and a terrible defender, he makes just enough flashy plays that people think he is good, when he is not good. There is no way that I would keep him.

youngthegiant wrote:5.) You have your floor spacer/off ball player(Juancho), scorer(Barton), All around Center(Plumlee),a real pg(????)...Now that second unit needs a defender. The hope would be Denver can get a sf in the draft that they can develop. Miles Bridges, Kevin Knox, Troy Brown Jr. would all be good options. As well as finding a replacement for Chandler(it's time to trade him) Shai Gilgeuos Alexander would be an option at pg, such a smooth and under control game.

I would also look to move Plumlee for a defensive C, he is not a good defender and his lack of shooting kills the offense when he is asked to do anything more than set screens and finish at the rim. Than I would use a 2nd rounder to draft a project C with long term potential.

I would actually trade Lyles and Plumlee along with Faried and Arthur to rebuild the bench, let Barton walk, then resign Craig, and find a suitable backup PG to compete with Morris for the job.

my lineup next year would be
Murray/ Free agent PG/ Morris
Harris/ Beasley
Craig/ SF placeholder/ draft pick
Millsap/ Juancho
Jokic/ Defensive C/ draft pick

SoCalNuggsFan · Post #4 » by **SoCalNuggsFan** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:09 pm

I’m in favor of trading lyles. He’s an RFA in a year and his skill set should get him paid like a starter.

I’m 50/50 on bringing Barton back. That’s probably because he only plays well 50% of the time.

I wouldn’t mind Craig & Beasley as the wings. They both bring defense and energy, which is sorely needed.

I’m good with giving Juancho the first shot at bench 4, with faried and Arthur there if he underwhelms.

Priority 1 is trying to dump plumlee. You can always find bargain bin 13 mpg centers, you shouldn’t be paying one 14 mill a year.

That lineup needs a good offensive PG to run it. Not sure who will be available. Man it would be nice to have Donovan Mitchell.

psimanic1 · Post #5 » by **psimanic1** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:31 pm

If we can keep Barton at <11mpy I would keep him for 2-3 years...something like 3-33 would be max I would give for him

skywalker33 · Post #6 » by **skywalker33** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 pm

I’m not for keeping Barton, I like the spark he provides off the bench, but he’s too inconsistent and doesn’t provide any defense. I’m not for trading Lyles, he needs to work more on defense but most Nuggets do right now. I am beginning to see him more as an off the bench guy but we will need bench scoring, he can fill in as a starter and has versatility. Plumlee has to go as well, addition by subtraction candidate

Zaccaibone · Post #7 » by **Zaccaibone** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:28 pm

I agree with letting Barton walk but if that happens we need to find a replacement.

skywalker33 · Post #8 » by **skywalker33** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:59 am

Zaccaibone wrote:I agree with letting Barton walk but if that happens we need to find a replacement.

Isn't that what we expect of Beasley ??

U hova · Post #9 » by **U hova** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:56 am

Zaccaibone wrote:I agree with letting Barton walk but if that happens we need to find a replacement.

We can use Murray in that role if he never becomes an adequate point, though I'm hoping he'll add another move or two to his arsenal.

SoCalNuggsFan · Post #10 » by **SoCalNuggsFan** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:22 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Zaccaibone wrote:I agree with letting Barton walk but if that happens we need to find a replacement.

Isn't that what we expect of Beasley ??

Yeah you give Beasley and Craig those minutes and they probably don’t replace Barton’s scoring, but they also give up a lot fewer points.

MidMountain · Post #11 » by **MidMountain** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:44 pm

If Chandler opts out, Arthur opts in, and we sign Jokic to the max: we will be just under the salary tax line. We might be able to afford a small contract to Craig and a veteran at the minimum but are unlikely to make bench improvements via free agency. I doubt we go into the tax to re-sign Barton. Plus if Chandler opts out we will have a hole at starting SF. Hopefully we can use Lyles or our pick to fill those gaps.

Post #12 » by **THE J0KER** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:57 pm

OK, the bench is fixed!

What now?

Post #13 » by **The Rebel** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:18 pm

MidMountain wrote:If Chandler opts out, Arthur opts in, and we sign Jokic to the max: we will be just under the salary tax line. We might be able to afford a small contract to Craig and a veteran at the minimum but are unlikely to make bench improvements via free agency. I doubt we go into the tax to re-sign Barton. Plus if Chandler opts out we will have a hole at starting SF. Hopefully we can use Lyles or our pick to fill those gaps.

That is likely what will happen, although it is far from a given that Chandler will opt out, but one way or another a player or pick along with an expiring is going to have to go to cutting salary or finding a replacement for Chandler.