Recapping the brilliance of Danny Ainge

[chris4celts]

I know most of us are all aware of the history here, but it's worth recapping. It takes your breath away.

From the Summer of 2013 to the Summer of 2017, Ainge made trades with the following teams (other minor trade not listed):

1. Brooklyn (KG, PP trade)
2. Dallas (Rondo trade)
3. Memphis twice (Jeff Green trade and 2016 draft day pick swap)
4. Philly (Tatum/Fultz trade)
5. Cleveland (Kyrie/IT trade)
6. Detroit (AB trade)

As a result of all these trades, the Celtics netted:

1. Jaylen Brown
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Yabu
5. Sacramento 2019 1st (top 1 protected or becomes Philly 1st).
5. Memphis 2019 1st (top 8 protected in '19, top 6 protected in '20, then unprotected in 2021).
6. Marcus Morris
7. Clippers 1st in 2019 or 2020, lotto protected, or becomes a 2nd in 2022.

The Cs gave up:

1. 35-36 year old PP (out of league)
2. 37-38 year old KG (out of league)
3. Jason Terry (still barely kicking)
4. Rondo (journeyman in NO)
5. Dwight Powell (in Dallas)
6. Jeff Green (in Clev. as Memphis lost him for nothing)
7. Avery Bradley (did not work in Detroit and is due a big raise while Morris under contract next year for $5 million)
8. Zizic (to Cavs in Kyrie trade).

The following assets are not listed because they are both incoming and outgoing as part of trades, so they net to zero.

1. IT
2. Crowder
3. Fultz
4. 2018 Nets 1st
5. 2016 Cavs 1st
6. 31st and 35th picks in 2016 draft.

PS: I should be clear that I mean no disrespect to Rondo, AB, KG or PP. They were obviously all tremendous Celtics and each have a place in Celtic history. Also note that AB was traded out of financial necessity such that Hayward could be signed.

Note: Despite best efforts, all second round picks exchanged may not be accounted for.

[return2glory]

Ainge has gone a really nice job. Off the top of my head, you are missing Ante Zizic who was traded to the Cavs.

And yes, Powell is still in Dallas and has been started a few games for them lately.

[chris4celts]

Ainge has gone a really nice job. Off the top of my head, you are missing Ante Zizic who was traded to the Cavs.

And yes, Powell is still in Dallas and has been started a few games for them lately.

Thanks- changes made.

[truth18]

Ainge is God.

[CelticTillDeath]

Ironically enough, just a couple days ago on the felger and Mazz radio show on 98.5 the sports hub, they were actually talking about how ainge gets the biggest pass out of any gm in the Boston area. They kept harping on the fact that he has 1 championship in his 15 seasons as the Celtics gm, and how if that were the case for the patriots, bruins, or Red Sox gm then they would be crucified.

Clearly they weren’t taking injuries into account. If KG never goes down in 09, then your looking at a potential 3-peat from 08-10. We were far and away the best team in the league in 09 before KG went down, and in ‘10 if KG was never compromised with that knee injury from the previous season then there is no way that finals series even gets to 7 games, let alone the Celtics losing in 7.

People tend to forget that Ainge has now successfully (or pretty close to it) completed two separate rebuilds. When he first got here he took over an absolute mess, and he always said he had a 5 year plan to turn things around. Surer then the sky is blue, that 5th year resulted in us getting KG, Ray, and banner 17. When that core broke down, Danny then pulled off arguably the biggest highest of all time which has now set the team up for finals contention yet again, but with a significantly younger core. Not to mention the fact that Danny still has an array of high valued assets he can use to better this current team even further.

So clearly those radio guys are meat heads in every sense of the word. How many times have we ever said Danny lost a trade? He’s arguably the best “trader” GM in the league. He’s also the first Celtics GM that convinced TWO max free agents to sign here. The franchise had previously struck out every other time in that regard. Danny has made the Celtics a destination spot. Even drafting, the wherewithal to take brown at 3, trade down to 3 for Tatum, the supposed reach for rozier at 15, the trade for rondo at 21, even drafting smart where he did. I know some will point to the JR Giddens and JuJuan Johnson picks at the end of the first round during the big 3 era, but late first rounders are always a gamble. Basically, danny really hasn’t done much wrong in his tenure as the Celtics GM.

[chris4celts]

Ironically enough, just a couple days ago on the felger and Mazz radio show on 98.5 the sports hub, they were actually talking about how ainge gets the biggest pass out of any gm in the Boston area. They kept harping on the fact that he has 1 championship in his 15 seasons as the Celtics gm, and how if that were the case for the patriots, bruins, or Red Sox gm then they would be crucified.

Clearly they weren’t taking injuries into account. If KG never goes down in 09, then your looking at a potential 3-peat from 08-10. We were far and away the best team in the league in 09 before KG went down, and in ‘10 if KG was never compromised with that knee injury from the previous season then there is no way that finals series even gets to 7 games, let alone the Celtics losing in 7.

People tend to forget that Ainge has now successfully (or pretty close to it) completed two separate rebuilds. When he first got here he took over an absolute mess, and he always said he had a 5 year plan to turn things around. Surer then the sky is blue, that 5th year resulted in us getting KG, Ray, and banner 17. When that core broke down, Danny then pulled off arguably the biggest highest of all time which has now set the team up for finals contention yet again, but with a significantly younger core. Not to mention the fact that Danny still has an array of high valued assets he can use to better this current team even further.

So clearly those radio guys are meat heads in every sense of the word. How many times have we ever said Danny lost a trade? He’s arguably the best “trader” GM in the league. He’s also the first Celtics GM that convinced TWO max free agents to sign here. The franchise had previously struck out every other time in that regard. Danny has made the Celtics a destination spot. Even drafting, the wherewithal to take brown at 3, trade down to 3 for Tatum, the supposed reach for rozier at 15, the trade for rondo at 21, even drafting smart where he did. I know some will point to the JR Giddens and JuJuan Johnson picks at the end of the first round during the big 3 era, but late first rounders are always a gamble. Basically, danny really hasn’t done much wrong in his tenure as the Celtics GM.

I agree. You can't nail all those late firsts. No-one can. The ONLY move that gives me pause was passing on the Greek Freak for KO. Ainge took KO 13th overall in 2013 with the Greek Freak staring him in the face. People bring up missing on Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler. That's not fair because almost the entire league missed on those guys.

[SuperDeluxe]

7. Fultz (potential bust)
8. Avery Bradley (did not work in Detroit and is due a big raise while Morris under contract next year for $5 million)
9. Zizic (to Cavs in Kyrie trade)

Fultz is a potential bust as much as he is a potential star. Too early to tell.

Zizic may (or may not) also end up a very good player. Too early to tell.

You forgot to include the Nets' pick that we sent to Cleveland in the Irving trade, which could be huge.

That being said, Ainge is indeed brilliant.

[CelticTillDeath]

Ironically enough, just a couple days ago on the felger and Mazz radio show on 98.5 the sports hub, they were actually talking about how ainge gets the biggest pass out of any gm in the Boston area. They kept harping on the fact that he has 1 championship in his 15 seasons as the Celtics gm, and how if that were the case for the patriots, bruins, or Red Sox gm then they would be crucified.

Clearly they weren’t taking injuries into account. If KG never goes down in 09, then your looking at a potential 3-peat from 08-10. We were far and away the best team in the league in 09 before KG went down, and in ‘10 if KG was never compromised with that knee injury from the previous season then there is no way that finals series even gets to 7 games, let alone the Celtics losing in 7.

People tend to forget that Ainge has now successfully (or pretty close to it) completed two separate rebuilds. When he first got here he took over an absolute mess, and he always said he had a 5 year plan to turn things around. Surer then the sky is blue, that 5th year resulted in us getting KG, Ray, and banner 17. When that core broke down, Danny then pulled off arguably the biggest highest of all time which has now set the team up for finals contention yet again, but with a significantly younger core. Not to mention the fact that Danny still has an array of high valued assets he can use to better this current team even further.

So clearly those radio guys are meat heads in every sense of the word. How many times have we ever said Danny lost a trade? He’s arguably the best “trader” GM in the league. He’s also the first Celtics GM that convinced TWO max free agents to sign here. The franchise had previously struck out every other time in that regard. Danny has made the Celtics a destination spot. Even drafting, the wherewithal to take brown at 3, trade down to 3 for Tatum, the supposed reach for rozier at 15, the trade for rondo at 21, even drafting smart where he did. I know some will point to the JR Giddens and JuJuan Johnson picks at the end of the first round during the big 3 era, but late first rounders are always a gamble. Basically, danny really hasn’t done much wrong in his tenure as the Celtics GM.

I agree. You can't nail all those late firsts. No-one can. The ONLY move that gives me pause was passing on the Greek Freak for KO. Ainge took KO 13th overall in 2013 with the Greek Freak staring him in the face. People bring up missing on Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler. That's not fair because almost the entire league missed on those guys.

Very true. That’s one I’ve purposely tried to erase from my memory. Grant it, at the time of the draft Giannis was EXTREMELY raw and he couldn’t even complete a mid range shot, let alone a 3 pointer. If anyone thought he was going to turn into the player he is now, then he would have been taken 1st overall. Kind of like what happened with Kawhi.

Still, with Ainges history and willingness to take on “young raw” prospects, it is strange he passed on a guy with those measurements for a minimally skilled big man. That is certainly a blunder on his part.

It’s like I said though, the draft is a crap shoot, even in the lottery range. I’ll take dannys draft rate over almost any other GM in the league. Then when you factor in his trades and free agent pitches? I don’t even think it’s close.

[chris4celts]

7. Fultz (potential bust)
8. Avery Bradley (did not work in Detroit and is due a big raise while Morris under contract next year for $5 million)
9. Zizic (to Cavs in Kyrie trade)

Fultz is a potential bust as much as he is a potential star. Too early to tell.

Zizic may (or may not) also end up a very good player. Too early to tell.

You forgot to include the Nets' pick that we sent to Cleveland in the Irving trade, which could be huge.

That being said, Ainge is indeed brilliant.

OK, I changed the list, thanks. I mentioned the 2018 Nets pick as a wash in grand scheme, because it came from Nets to Cs to Cavs. Zero sum gain in the big picture. I took the word potential "bust" away from Fultz. Fair.

[chris4celts]

Ironically enough, just a couple days ago on the felger and Mazz radio show on 98.5 the sports hub, they were actually talking about how ainge gets the biggest pass out of any gm in the Boston area. They kept harping on the fact that he has 1 championship in his 15 seasons as the Celtics gm, and how if that were the case for the patriots, bruins, or Red Sox gm then they would be crucified.

Clearly they weren’t taking injuries into account. If KG never goes down in 09, then your looking at a potential 3-peat from 08-10. We were far and away the best team in the league in 09 before KG went down, and in ‘10 if KG was never compromised with that knee injury from the previous season then there is no way that finals series even gets to 7 games, let alone the Celtics losing in 7.

People tend to forget that Ainge has now successfully (or pretty close to it) completed two separate rebuilds. When he first got here he took over an absolute mess, and he always said he had a 5 year plan to turn things around. Surer then the sky is blue, that 5th year resulted in us getting KG, Ray, and banner 17. When that core broke down, Danny then pulled off arguably the biggest highest of all time which has now set the team up for finals contention yet again, but with a significantly younger core. Not to mention the fact that Danny still has an array of high valued assets he can use to better this current team even further.

So clearly those radio guys are meat heads in every sense of the word. How many times have we ever said Danny lost a trade? He’s arguably the best “trader” GM in the league. He’s also the first Celtics GM that convinced TWO max free agents to sign here. The franchise had previously struck out every other time in that regard. Danny has made the Celtics a destination spot. Even drafting, the wherewithal to take brown at 3, trade down to 3 for Tatum, the supposed reach for rozier at 15, the trade for rondo at 21, even drafting smart where he did. I know some will point to the JR Giddens and JuJuan Johnson picks at the end of the first round during the big 3 era, but late first rounders are always a gamble. Basically, danny really hasn’t done much wrong in his tenure as the Celtics GM.

I agree. You can't nail all those late firsts. No-one can. The ONLY move that gives me pause was passing on the Greek Freak for KO. Ainge took KO 13th overall in 2013 with the Greek Freak staring him in the face. People bring up missing on Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler. That's not fair because almost the entire league missed on those guys.

Very true. That’s one I’ve purposely tried to erase from my memory. Grant it, at the time of the draft Giannis was EXTREMELY raw and he couldn’t even complete a mid range shot, let alone a 3 pointer. If anyone thought he was going to turn into the player he is now, then he would have been taken 1st overall. Kind of like what happened with Kawhi.

Still, with Ainges history and willingness to take on “young raw” prospects, it is strange he passed on a guy with those measurements for a minimally skilled big man. That is certainly a blunder on his part.

It’s like I said though, the draft is a crap shoot, even in the lottery range. I’ll take dannys draft rate over almost any other GM in the league. Then when you factor in his trades and free agent pitches? I don’t even think it’s close.

Precisely. What was more puzzling was that the Cs were starting a rebuild at that time. KO would have made more sense in 2010 or something. He could have helped right away. But when you start a rebuild you always take the guy with the massive upside.

[titlebound1]

[/b]

I agree. You can't nail all those late firsts. No-one can. The ONLY move that gives me pause was passing on the Greek Freak for KO. Ainge took KO 13th overall in 2013 with the Greek Freak staring him in the face. People bring up missing on Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler. That's not fair because almost the entire league missed on those guys.

Very true. That’s one I’ve purposely tried to erase from my memory. Grant it, at the time of the draft Giannis was EXTREMELY raw and he couldn’t even complete a mid range shot, let alone a 3 pointer. If anyone thought he was going to turn into the player he is now, then he would have been taken 1st overall. Kind of like what happened with Kawhi.

Still, with Ainges history and willingness to take on “young raw” prospects, it is strange he passed on a guy with those measurements for a minimally skilled big man. That is certainly a blunder on his part.

It’s like I said though, the draft is a crap shoot, even in the lottery range. I’ll take dannys draft rate over almost any other GM in the league. Then when you factor in his trades and free agent pitches? I don’t even think it’s close.

Precisely. What was more puzzling was that the Cs were starting a rebuild at that time. KO would have made more sense in 2010 or something. He could have helped right away. But when you start a rebuild you always take the guy with the massive upside.

Ugh...could you imagine this team fully healthy with Giannis....

PG - Irving
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Giannis
C - Horford

Tatum
Smart
Terry
Morris
Monroe
Baynes

Obviously wouldn't work out exactly like that. But that team is better than the Warriors.

[CelticTillDeath]

Very true. That’s one I’ve purposely tried to erase from my memory. Grant it, at the time of the draft Giannis was EXTREMELY raw and he couldn’t even complete a mid range shot, let alone a 3 pointer. If anyone thought he was going to turn into the player he is now, then he would have been taken 1st overall. Kind of like what happened with Kawhi.

Still, with Ainges history and willingness to take on “young raw” prospects, it is strange he passed on a guy with those measurements for a minimally skilled big man. That is certainly a blunder on his part.

It’s like I said though, the draft is a crap shoot, even in the lottery range. I’ll take dannys draft rate over almost any other GM in the league. Then when you factor in his trades and free agent pitches? I don’t even think it’s close.

Precisely. What was more puzzling was that the Cs were starting a rebuild at that time. KO would have made more sense in 2010 or something. He could have helped right away. But when you start a rebuild you always take the guy with the massive upside.

Ugh...could you imagine this team fully healthy with Giannis....

PG - Irving
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Giannis
C - Horford

Tatum
Smart
Terry
Morris
Monroe
Baynes

Obviously wouldn't work out exactly like that. But that team is better than the Warriors.

That team would absolutely be the best team in basketball, and I don’t even think it’d be close. However, like you said, it wouldn’t be possible to work out like that. We had to let KO walk in order to sign Hayward, so if we had Giannis instead of KO, we’d likely just max Giannis. This means no Hayward. No Hayward also means we don’t get the DPE to sign Monroe either, so there’s no Monroe. The team would actually then look like this...

Kyrie/smart
Brown/rozier
Tatum/Morris
Giannis/Theis
Horford/Baynes

That’s still an incredible team and a legit finals contender. I love Hayward as much as Brad Stevens does, but I think that group is better then the one we have now with Hayward healthy. The spacing isn’t there like it would be with Hayward since Giannis is a poor 3pt shooter, but he more then makes up for that with his vision, passing, rebounding, defense, cutting, etc.

[Froob]

GB pretty much told us we got fleeced in everyone of those deals.

[CelticsPride18]

GB pretty much told us we got fleeced in everyone of those deals.

They also said Celtics assets are overrated.

[truth18]

GB pretty much told us we got fleeced in everyone of those deals.

Live look at the trade board:



Complete **** morons outside of the (brilliant) Smitty and Hartford (smart poster outside of that board).

[canman1971]

I for one think that this site would be much better off without the General Board. I mean really, what's the point? Just absolute trash.

[Homerclease]

GB pretty much told us we got fleeced in everyone of those deals.

Live look at the trade board:



Complete **** morons outside of the (brilliant) Smitty and Hartford (smart poster outside of that board).

Can’t wait for their offseason review where they give us a C yet again

[Iguodaladon]

If Ainge doesn't win EoY this year after swindling both the Cavs and Sixers AND signing Hayward, it's an absolute travesty of titanic proportions

[Fencer reregistered]

7. Fultz (potential bust)
8. Avery Bradley (did not work in Detroit and is due a big raise while Morris under contract next year for $5 million)
9. Zizic (to Cavs in Kyrie trade)

Fultz is a potential bust as much as he is a potential star. Too early to tell.

Zizic may (or may not) also end up a very good player. Too early to tell.

You forgot to include the Nets' pick that we sent to Cleveland in the Irving trade, which could be huge.

That being said, Ainge is indeed brilliant.

OK, I changed the list, thanks. I mentioned the 2018 Nets pick as a wash in grand scheme, because it came from Nets to Cs to Cavs. Zero sum gain in the big picture. I took the word potential "bust" away from Fultz. Fair.

Fultz should get the same accounting treatment, for the same reason.

And pet peeve, since my PhD is in game theory -- "zero SUM" is not what you meant.

[Fencer reregistered]

Actually, the cost of keeping the guy who was picked in Olynyk's spot (whether it would have been Olynyk or Giannis) would have been:

-- Dumping Smart.
-- Not taking salary back in the Bradley trade.

I.e., all Giannis would have "cost" us is the two Marcuses.

Precisely. What was more puzzling was that the Cs were starting a rebuild at that time. KO would have made more sense in 2010 or something. He could have helped right away. But when you start a rebuild you always take the guy with the massive upside.

Ugh...could you imagine this team fully healthy with Giannis....

PG - Irving
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Giannis
C - Horford

Tatum
Smart
Terry
Morris
Monroe
Baynes

Obviously wouldn't work out exactly like that. But that team is better than the Warriors.

That team would absolutely be the best team in basketball, and I don’t even think it’d be close. However, like you said, it wouldn’t be possible to work out like that. We had to let KO walk in order to sign Hayward, so if we had Giannis instead of KO, we’d likely just max Giannis. This means no Hayward. No Hayward also means we don’t get the DPE to sign Monroe either, so there’s no Monroe. The team would actually then look like this...

Kyrie/smart
Brown/rozier
Tatum/Morris
Giannis/Theis
Horford/Baynes

That’s still an incredible team and a legit finals contender. I love Hayward as much as Brad Stevens does, but I think that group is better then the one we have now with Hayward healthy. The spacing isn’t there like it would be with Hayward since Giannis is a poor 3pt shooter, but he more then makes up for that with his vision, passing, rebounding, defense, cutting, etc.