Political Roundtable Part XXII

[gtn130]

And lol @ SD20 'staying home' for the midterms when he literally never votes. He has claimed he voted for Obama 2x, Bernie in the primaries and then supposedly *didn't* vote for Trump. Obviously the dude doesn't vote and changes his voting history whenever he feels like it under the pretense of what he would have done had he bothered to show up to vote. His lizard brain isn't a total black box.

He is a dyed-in-the-wool Deplorable and will support Trump unconditionally, but the guy in the truest sense of Deplorable-ness is too lazy and lacking in conviction to even show up to a polling station.

[JWizmentality]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Baseless wiretap rumor?

Trump's campaign was indeed spied upon and his communications were intercepted. We know that now. It's no rumor. They got a FISA warrant on Carter Page, and with the "two hop rule" they could spy on anyone Page communicated with.

This is why the Trump team moved their transition headquarters to NJ the day after NSA Director Mike Rogers met with Trump in a SCIFF (where he presumably informed Trump that he was being surveilled).

Lie but whatever.

Criminals should be monitored.

[Ruzious]

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so.

I don't know if you're bs'ing, so I'm not going to judge you, but anyone who thinks that way is the opposite of a guy's guy.

[JWizmentality]

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so.

I don't know if you're bs'ing, so I'm not going to judge you, but anyone who thinks that way is the opposite of a guy's guy.

I will. He's trash.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19


Officials in a majority-black Georgia county accused of trying to close almost all polling places to make it harder for black people to vote claimed last week that the locations couldn’t be used because of accessibility problems for people with disabilities.

But Randolph County doesn’t have a single recent report, analysis or document supporting the idea that it needs to close seven of its nine polling places due to accessibility issues, a lawyer for the county told HuffPost on Tuesday in response to a public records request.

HuffPost requested records from the county dating back to March 1, 2018. The county hired Michael Malone, an outside elections consultant now pushing for the closures, on April 2. But according to the county, it has no written record of evidence to back his recommendations.

“There is no document, report or analysis studying the handicap accessibility of polling places in Randolph County and the cost of fixing them within the time frame specified in your open records request,” Hayden Hooks, an attorney with the firm Perry & Walters, which represents Randolph County, wrote in an email. The county has no record of such a document in the past year, Hooks added.

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so.

I don't know if you're bs'ing, so I'm not going to judge you, but anyone who thinks that way is the opposite of a guy's guy.

Anyone who thinks that's acceptable probably a sexual predator.

[JWizmentality]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Lol

[stilldropin20]

OBAMA did not order Trump tower to be wiretapped, that is a FLAT OUT LIE.

Obama's DOJ chose to wiretap Trump BECAUSE HE'S A FRICKIN CRIMINAL

maybe maybe not. here's the thing...its hard to imagine comey, and rosenstein signing off on a FISA that they know they are using to surveil the Trump campaign...given the history of watergate...its really hard to imagine Obama not being at least advised if not our right asked. Obama was at the end and knew investigations take years to syphon information so he likely knew and gave the go ahead. If not, Comey and rosenstein would have no cover.

For example, there are texts from mccabe, rosentstein and stzok and page where (hours after Trump won) they all collectively gasp with something along the lines of, "oh shxt, my name is all over those FISA applications. <--so they knew it meant trouble. However they have successfully been able to lay cover for their illegal surveillance with session recusing himself.<--that right there did Trump in. If Guiliani had taken the job as AG( and he would have had Trump and guiliani knows what the outgoing admin had in store for Trump)...if Guiliani takes the job, then the entire Mueller thing would not only have never happened but instead we would have had a full blown investigation into the investigators that surveilled trump and illegally obtained the FISA.

And that's why outsiders dont last. They dont know what they dont know. And they dont understand just how dirty the world of politics and media is at the highest of levels. Trump has handled the media well. but has no clue how to play the politics and position himself not to step in so much doo doo. (which as a trump supporter is difficult to watch him struggle so much<--and most of his struggles are based on opening up his mouth...all he has to do is shut up most of the time). But outsiders in general just dont have the political favors(or dirt on others) nor relationships yet. they struggle to get their "own" people appointed in the highest positions ASAP. For example, trump got tricked by session into thinking Sessions would have his back just because sessions was smart enough to latch his wagon to trump earliest. All future presidents will never make this mistake agains. They will realize the importance of your own AG immediately.<--and a guy you have dirt on. video of him or her doing lines off of a prostitute minimally (or I'm sorry...you just cant have the job).

^^and i say all that...because none of you will hold HRC, WJC, nor Obama responsible for any of their crimes or horrific policy. Just like Trumpsters wont hold Trump or Reagan accountable. Its politics. So right and wrong clearly doesn't matter to either side. If doing right or wrong (by americans) mattered then many a president would be sitting in jail. many a congressman. But it doesn't. What matters is politics. if right and wrong mattered...we wouldn't have poor people. If right and wrong mattered we would have a wealth disparity where the top 1% own 92% of the wealth. <--all of which are easy fixes. and I', the only guy in all of these threads that has identified where and how the massive welath disparity is created (fracitonal reserve lending and the availablity of crediit made to certain individual and not others so as to invest at greater proprtions in our markets. and then the ability to pass that wealth down from generation to generation. <--that it!! that is america's biggest problem and also Europes greatest problem. Wealth disparity and the passing down of wealth untaxed...everything else is small potatoes compared to this. This is the RATE determingin step and none of you want to address it nor even talk about. You fix this and you fix medicare, education, and everything else all at once. By taxing the uber wealthy and making credit equally available to all or not available at all. None of you seem to grasp this concept but Nate. So you either dont care about right and wrong or have no idea about the things most wrong in the world. You guys get bogged down in crap like campaign finance while shipping a 1,000,000 jobs per year over sees for decades. how about this...you would need free education for college if manufacturing jobs were as abundent now as they were in the 60's and 70's and wages kept pace with inflation. You could afford to send your kids to college! and afford to pay the doctor! You guys also want free medicare. instead of forcing Big Pharm to charge less. and forcing doctors to prescibe healty lifestyles instead of more pills.

so none of this is about right and wrong. its all about politics.

So in the name of politics...Even right now...Sessions could (un)recuse himself. explanation is simple<--if session colluded with russians or broke any other laws then session should not be the AG. So the assumption is that if essions colluded or knew if it then he should be fired not recused. Unrecused, the investigation could immediately change course. Manaforte could be made to pay back taxes and then given blanket immunity to testify against podesta and many other like an investigation into investigators etc. Cohen could be thrown in jail. And then we could get back to finding actual russian collusion....which would go directly to HRC, the DNC, Perkins, Fusion, Steele, Strzok, Ohr, etc. and see who knew what and when. and then tie it into the FISA abuse.

^^^thats what normally happens. And you never hear anything about any presidents. and presidents get to focus on trade, foreign policy, etc. Instead this guy cant get out of doo doo. and he doesn't seem to understand why. Sessions. Sessions. Session. He should have fired sessions the minute after he recused himself. An innocent man would not need to recuse himself. and you cant recuse yourself out of the most important job in the executive branch right after the president.

Further more, over a year ago i said Trump should have held up the entire government. Gorsuch, Tax bill, everything. he should have told the GOP he is not nominating a soul nor signing the tax bill without an immediate impeachment of Sessions and an emergency vote for his new AG<which should have been and unrecused Guiliani...and this whole thing would be less frustrating for everyone. But with Sessions still there and trump dangling in the wind for the entire first 18 months of his presidency, Dems and the lib media know that have a shot at this. And they just keep digging.

Stalin's police chief: "show me the man and i will show you the crime." <-- i'm not a cop nor an attorney but if i was the USAG i could put anyone in the entire USA in jail. Anyone. There is no one on planet earth who doesn't fudge up paperwork(however slight) from time to time. Its impossible to live squeeky clean and we have (purposefully) have too manylaws to tie people up in multiple ways. We created the legal sytem this way so as to get the real bad guys. not the guys who over state their income (at a time when banks accepted "stated income.").

So Trump and his clumsy ways just cant figure out what to do. And he needs to fire sessions and force his GOP to approve and new AG before november. Problem for Trump now it that he's got nothing to hold over their heads. they already got all they ever wanted out of the trump presidency.<--the tax bill and both supreme court nominees. Trump is not the bumbling fool many here think he is....that is certain. But he could use a guy like me at the helm from jump street. I would have kept him out of all of this.

[payitforward]

pancakes is certainly right; stildropin is exactly that "a piece of sh|t." I'm not sure why anyone engages with him on any of the ugly nonsense he writes.

I have no trouble whatever conversing, debating, what-have-you with conservatives. H@ll, I have a family full of them -- some quite well-known.

But stildropin is not a conservative; he is a... well, he's actually a nothing at all as far as I can tell. Maybe a conspiracy-theory addict?

In fact, interestingly enough, I can't identify a single conservative among those who participate in this thread. Nate -- whom I really like a lot as must be obvious -- I can't figure out at all; I don't ever seem to read a post from him that exemplifies "conservatism" in any sense in which I understand the word. Popper might be a conservative, though to tell the truth I'm not sure I can identify any consistent stance on his part.

One thing is obvious; Donald Trump isn't a "conservative." He doesn't believe in anything as far as I can tell.

No, Donald Trump is a classic demagogue of the kind that has arisen frequently over the centuries & even millenia. Read the wikipedia article for a fuller characterization of what a demagogue is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue & it will be obvious. Trump talks over the head of any political philosophy, addresses "the people" as a "mass entity" by establishing an emotional connection, & makes a claim to be the unique answer (in his person not his programs) to their "problem" (no matter how the problem is described or defined) who can remake their world.

A demagogue is nothing new -- though it's new for a demagogue to reach the American presidency; it took a historically miserable alignment of political (not economic -- the economy was doing well) factors to put him in office. The weakest imaginable candidate as his opponent (weak candidate, not weak human being), a punk campaign run by that candidate's cocksure organization, etc.

All demagogues end the same way -- in disgrace, often hung in a public square or torn apart alive. I doubt these extreme ends will reach Donald Trump, as he won't have the time to tear down the fabric of law to a sufficient degree as to make them possible. But there is little doubt that disgrace will bring him down, & the possibility exists that he'll spend his last years in prison.

More likely he'll make some kind of deal to resign office & thereby avoid (or at least minimize) prosecution. This too is sometimes the way a demagogue's career ends. Usually, when it ends in this manner, his "base" (those who connected to him via "belief" -- as he called for -- rather than reason) revert almost instantly to one or another conventional set of beliefs.

The groups & institutions that can't do that (e.g. Breitbart) will lose their entire franchise at that point w/ the exception of a fragmented group of the "truest believers" who will harden further & that way come to serve as an example of what to avoid (viz. unwavering McCarthyites following his fall).

I'm guessing that not many here will have heard of "Father Coughlin," the isolationist priest who was enormously popular in the middle and late 1930's. A Fascist sympathizer, who received secret financial support from Putin I mean Hitler, Father Coughlin's anti-democratic, anti-semitic, anti-"Jewish banking cartel," pro-German weekly radio broadcast had an audience estimated at thirty million listeners.

(This is in the US, as i hope is obvious)

[Kanyewest]

I'm not saying that Trump wasn't wiretapped or his aides were not wiretapped. What I'm saying is that Trump was just distracting the public by calling out Obama as the one who was leading the wiretaps. At best Obama knew about it, but it seemed to be conducted by the Feds. And it isn't like it is a goose chase, Trump's campaign manager now faces 60 years of jail with another trial coming up ahead against him and the indictment of other Russians who interfered in the elections.

[stilldropin20]

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so.

I don't know if you're bs'ing, so I'm not going to judge you, but anyone who thinks that way is the opposite of a guy's guy.

assuming Trump was BSing. hence the words "BS talk." I mean wealthy guys get ot have more fun than poor guys...and without breaking any laws. Real talk. but also...trump was just pulling his billy bush's leg. no one walks around grabbing crotches unless women are fully presenting themselves and fully demonstrate they want it. and encourage it while its happening. this isn't something you do if you are 99% sure...only 100%. and you dont initiate. you allow the woman to initiate. or grab you and kiss you first etc. I mean if i have to explain it you just aint that guy. most aren't...like 98% of men are NOT that guy. Donald trump however especially when younger was indeed that guy.

And they were just laughing about it and having fun. I mean seriously, you guys never had the nicest car in HS and almost every chick wanted a "ride home." Or the nicest APT in college? Or the panty dropper condo? Or real nice boat? Or owned a bar? seriously?? Or were a DJ at night clubs. Or the best player on the team? damn fellas go spend some money! you are missing out.

[stilldropin20]

pancakes is certainly right; stildropin is exactly that "a piece of sh|t." I'm not sure why anyone engages with him on any of the ugly nonsense he writes.

I have no trouble whatever conversing, debating, what-have-you with conservatives. H@ll, I have a family full of them -- some quite well-known.

But stildropin is not a conservative; he is a... well, he's actually a nothing at all as far as I can tell. Maybe a conspiracy-theory addict?

In fact, interestingly enough, I can't identify a single conservative among those who participate in this thread. Nate -- whom I really like a lot as must be obvious -- I can't figure out at all; I don't ever seem to read a post from him that exemplifies "conservatism" in any sense in which I understand the word. Popper might be a conservative, though to tell the truth I'm not sure I can identify any consistent stance on his part.

One thing is obvious; Donald Trump isn't a "conservative." He doesn't believe in anything as far as I can tell.

No, Donald Trump is a classic demagogue of the kind that has arisen frequently over the centuries & even millenia. Read the wikipedia article for a fuller characterization of what a demagogue is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue & it will be obvious. Trump talks over the head of any political philosophy, addresses "the people" as a "mass entity" by establishing an emotional connection, & makes a claim to be the unique answer (in his person not his programs) to their "problem" (no matter how the problem is described or defined) who can remake their world.

A demagogue is nothing new -- though it's new for a demagogue to reach the American presidency; it took a historically miserable alignment of political (not economic -- the economy was doing well) factors to put him in office. The weakest imaginable candidate as his opponent (weak candidate, not weak human being), a punk campaign run by that candidate's cocksure organization, etc.

All demagogues end the same way -- in disgrace, often hung in a public square or torn apart alive. I doubt these extreme ends will reach Donald Trump, as he won't have the time to tear down the fabric of law to a sufficient degree as to make them possible. But there is little doubt that disgrace will bring him down, & the possibility exists that he'll spend his last years in prison.

More likely he'll make some kind of deal to resign office & thereby avoid (or at least minimize) prosecution. This too is sometimes the way a demagogue's career ends. Usually, when it ends in this manner, his "base" (those who connected to him via "belief" -- as he called for -- rather than reason) revert almost instantly to one or another conventional set of beliefs.

The groups & institutions that can't do that (e.g. Breitbart) will lose their entire franchise at that point w/ the exception of a fragmented group of the "truest believers" who will harden further & that way come to serve as an example of what to avoid (viz. unwavering McCarthyites following his fall).

I'm guessing that not many here will have heard of "Father Coughlin," the isolationist priest who was enormously popular in the middle and late 1930's. A Fascist sympathizer, who received secret financial support from Putin I mean Hitler, Father Coughlin's anti-democratic, anti-semitic, anti-"Jewish banking cartel," pro-German weekly radio broadcast had an audience estimated at thirty million listeners.

(This is in the US, as i hope is obvious)

Imma wise ol sage and a truthtella
a sooth sayer that make ya tooth betta
i s'port trump, so what?
rattlin cages
wakes us
in ways
to change us
insteada
layin down 4 days
frollic'n around in a haze
as the realgm "woke punk" that says,
"Hey man, how we gonna rearrange us?"

[Wizardspride]

We shall see.....

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Read on Twitter

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[stilldropin20]

I'm not saying that Trump wasn't wiretapped or his aides were not wiretapped. What I'm saying is that Trump was just distracting the public by calling out Obama as the one who was leading the wiretaps. At best Obama knew about it, but it seemed to be conducted by the Feds. And it isn't like it is a goose chase, Trump's campaign manager now faces 60 years of jail with another trial coming up ahead against him and the indictment of other Russians who interfered in the elections.

good points...but again. show me the man and i will show you the crime. and I'm not talking about setting anyone up. Just the simple blanket authority to entrap with perjury and investigate from there. convene grand juries, and obtain search warrants is all i need. With enough time I could get the entire US population to either be found guilty or cop a plea.

^^^which is what we want for the real bad guys...like al capone and the saturday night killer. Not for everyday citizens that for the most part obey the law. Mueller has turned the Russian collusion into a runaway train of a RICO case against anyone around Trump<--a man who happens to be the president of the United States of America. I mean this entire thing is comical.

You investigate anything or anyone long enough and you will find a crime eventually. Impossible to not a find something.

And it was almost impossible for Trump to avoid this one. Rosenstein told him to fire Comey. Comey pretended that trump told him to go easy on flynn) or trump said it...who cares...to spring the IC into obstruction of justice and russian collusion.

And here we are. Like I said. Trump may not be a bumbling fool that many here think he is...but he is an idiot for falling for this 3rd grade BS. I would have fired Clapper, brennen Comey everyone at the top of the FBI and DOJ on day one. And interviewed and back ground checked everyone. I would have used hannity to vet whoever in Congress and at the FBI to make their careers. Everyone would have been temporary until i could figure out who was who...but the second trump heard he had been surveilled by the Obama administration he should have known how many appointees and deputy directors it would have been necessary to surveil him.

literally on day 1. Hi Jim, you might be fired and you might stay. I will ingterview each of you over the next 2 weeks and often and multiple times. . Andy you too. Strzok and Ohr...same. Rosenstein, yates, Lynch same for you 3. Now i need each and everyone of you to get a briefing together as to every single investigation that you are currently running. Everything. Every single current investigation. Bring me the names of every single FISA warrant that you signed over the past 24 months. Every single individual that was surveilled as a result of these FISA warrants. list each and and every single person being investigated alphabettically. Today is monday...anyone ready? No? bring me your briefs by friday and i will consider you for reappointment after i see all of your briefs and interview you.

^^^ and thats all trump should have done for 2 weeks. Just strictly focused on his DOJ. He should have named Guiliani AG...and told Rudy...give me 1 year as AG and you will be the next SoS. (lie to him if you have to). Pompeo worked out great as CIA. Trump should have fired everyone under Pompeo that was not a trump friendly ally.

Did the same for the NSA. Now here is the fun part. He should have names Kelly ann conway chief of staff or mike huckabee. Either would have had his back. And all department head briefings should have immediately gone through them. plausible deniabity. SO when Comey comes to set up trump( it never happens) kelley ann takes the meeting and gets all the briefings on all of the investigations. Ivanka, kelly ann, reince, and Don Jr could have handled all the interviewing with the existing obama holdovers who entire goal was to set him up in an obstruction trap and fling and IC. They could have shuttled the info to trump and form there they could figure out who to keep and who to drop (everyone of them...but get the info first).

Then had them all sign NDA's as well as inform that if any leaks came out their security clearences would be removed and all access denied and FISA warrants would go out on each of them who to find the leaker and the leakers would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

from there they could have governed. Problem is Trump didn't want to deal with any of this pansy arse 5th fgrade bull crap. he wanted to govern. and was impatient to set it up to efficiently govern. Now he is forced to govern with both arms tied behind his back. and constantly stepping in doo doo that his own DOJ wont back him up. No president has gone through this in my life time. no president has a lame duck AG like this. No one.

[stilldropin20]

We shall see.....

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i saw that last night. Gut instinct: lanny's client got nothing...if he had soemthing? there is no reason to plead guilty to anything without a full immunity deal. I mean...if Cohen holds the smoking gun? why plead? Mueller's investigation is over if cohen has the smoking gun. Cohen holds that? Then Cohen is a priority to Mueller. Mueller should immediately grant full blanket immunity for the smoking gun. But that didn't happen. Instead, cohen walked in and pleaded guilty. so even if choen does hold a smoking gun? and he gives it up? He can still end up doing 4 years when he didn't have to do any time at all. makes no sense.

Plus...lanny looked like he is bluffing to me. but for the most part, i assume everyone is bluffing(or lying to themselves which is basically the same thing). and i end up right at least 90% of the time.

would you plead if you had the smoking gun? and face this:

Read on Twitter

here's the thing. Trump cant really direct a lawyer to do something illegal. the lawyer is suppose to know better, not trump. The lawyer is suppose to say...mr trump...we cant do it that way. and if Cohen didn't know better then COHEN needed to hire an attorney that knew campaign finance. now...it that happend? and trump said still do it after being told its illegal!? OK...if that's what we got? then i'm ready to impeach trump. But that aint what we got here. I doubt even cohen says it happened that way.

[FAH1223]

Jake Tapper's incredible "factcheck" fail on trying to discredit Medicare 4 All is more proof just how stupid, FAKE and intellectually dishonest corporate media is:

Watch on YouTube

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Here's a good article

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[verbal8]

And lol @ SD20 'staying home' for the midterms when he literally never votes. He has claimed he voted for Obama 2x, Bernie in the primaries and then supposedly *didn't* vote for Trump. Obviously the dude doesn't vote and changes his voting history whenever he feels like it under the pretense of what he would have done had he bothered to show up to vote.

I figured between being from Chicago and being a Trump supporter he voted 3 or 4 times - per election.

[verbal8]

When your party relies on voter suppression - you are losing.

Read on Twitter

?s=19


Officials in a majority-black Georgia county accused of trying to close almost all polling places to make it harder for black people to vote claimed last week that the locations couldn’t be used because of accessibility problems for people with disabilities.

But Randolph County doesn’t have a single recent report, analysis or document supporting the idea that it needs to close seven of its nine polling places due to accessibility issues, a lawyer for the county told HuffPost on Tuesday in response to a public records request.

HuffPost requested records from the county dating back to March 1, 2018. The county hired Michael Malone, an outside elections consultant now pushing for the closures, on April 2. But according to the county, it has no written record of evidence to back his recommendations.

“There is no document, report or analysis studying the handicap accessibility of polling places in Randolph County and the cost of fixing them within the time frame specified in your open records request,” Hayden Hooks, an attorney with the firm Perry & Walters, which represents Randolph County, wrote in an email. The county has no record of such a document in the past year, Hooks added.

[verbal8]

A demagogue is nothing new -- though it's new for a demagogue to reach the American presidency; it took a historically miserable alignment of political (not economic -- the economy was doing well) factors to put him in office. The weakest imaginable candidate as his opponent (weak candidate, not weak human being), a punk campaign run by that candidate's cocksure organization, etc.

I know Hillary Clinton attracts tons of unwarranted scorn. I wonder if one of her problems that she contributes to is the people around her. I was reading something written before the inauguration pointing out some similarities between Bill Clinton and Trump. The Clinton orbit isn't as extreme as "Trump" world, but it does seem the same people pop up over the years and better choices could have been made in some cases.

All demagogues end the same way -- in disgrace, often hung in a public square or torn apart alive. I doubt these extreme ends will reach Donald Trump, as he won't have the time to tear down the fabric of law to a sufficient degree as to make them possible. But there is little doubt that disgrace will bring him down, & the possibility exists that he'll spend his last years in prison.

More likely he'll make some kind of deal to resign office & thereby avoid (or at least minimize) prosecution. This too is sometimes the way a demagogue's career ends. Usually, when it ends in this manner, his "base" (those who connected to him via "belief" -- as he called for -- rather than reason) revert almost instantly to one or another conventional set of beliefs.

I think/hope a "deal" is very likely an end to Trump's presidency. One reason he may be so focused on created a smoke screen is that he is trying to survive until the end of his term. He very easily could cut a deal with the Republicans in the Senate to leave most of the day-to-day to Pence and not run in 2020, in exchange for not being impeached.

If he does resign as part of a deal, I think he does so to lessen the criminal liability for his children.