2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#281 » by InTheSabonus » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:This is a guy who has no respect for his coach. He either needs to get with the program or get a new coach. Only two realistic options here:


https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/10/26/18026364/russell-westbrook-thunder-vs-celtics-score-clutch-gmib


There seems to be this weird notion within the franchise that being "positive" and accommodating is somehow going to make players drop bad habits. Melo didn't become a better player after Donovan praised him (!) for our defense. Russ won't stop taking shots like that if they keep letting him get away with them. You have to make change like that happen and can't just expect them to manifest themselves if you make players comfortable.


Thats what i think **** me off the kost with Billy. Just the way he talks and acts its like hes walking on egg shells around his "stars".
He will openly **** on Adams in pressers yet has never said a bad word about Russ or PG. What Russ did in this last game was ridiculous. Im not saying Billy should publicly **** on Russ but he seems to just accept what went on.

Melo was the same. Its like billys in high school trying to hang out with the cool kids. He should be an authority figure. Not a peer


Understand it to an extent. Billy would have taken notice of what happened at Memphis; Fizdale took a hard-line stance with Gasol and was soon fired. He's probably just thinking about his job security. So it's on Presti to take this in to account and make decisions accordingly.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#282 » by spearsy23 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:46 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:This is a guy who has no respect for his coach. He either needs to get with the program or get a new coach. Only two realistic options here:


either way he has to get with the program. why can't he get with the program now?

He's doing exactly what Donovan wanted and needed him to do to win games during his mvp season. That doesn't look so good when the shots aren't falling. From the outside looking in this IS the program.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#283 » by Old Man Game » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:47 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:This is a guy who has no respect for his coach. He either needs to get with the program or get a new coach. Only two realistic options here:


either way he has to get with the program. why can't he get with the program now?
I'm saying he either needs to trust what Billy's doing or get a coach who he will trust.



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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#284 » by Old Man Game » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:51 pm

It is funny that Westbrook still does stuff like the awful three point attempt at the end of the game. His success rate on those is so low and the entire concept so hair brained it borders on insanity.

Forget the coach. Forget the organization. Forget everything else. You'd think just as a rational actor he wouldn't make judgements like that given how much he says he hates losing.

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#285 » by Pillendreher » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:01 pm

I'm ready for next game.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#286 » by bondom34 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:16 pm

Pillendreher wrote:I'm ready for next game.

Phoenix is actually kinda fun, and will be if they get a point guard.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#287 » by hardenASG13 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:26 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:He had a great game.


HE WHAT?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

hardenASG13 wrote:Patterson finally hit a few shots, that was nice. Where's his shot chart?


Here:

Image

And guess what - he's in a shooting slump and is still outshooting Grant. Grant's at 37 TS%, Patterson at 45 TS. Contrary to Grant, Patterson knows what he can and cannot do though. So instead of driving into three opposing defenders, trying to draw the foul by falling on his ass, he sticks to what his role should be. Even when his shot is not falling, he's not forcing up shots he cannot hit like this scrub.

Funnily enough, tools like you called for Roberson's head for years because he couldn't shoot. Yet Turd The Elder is immune to said ciriticism because he's one of those guys some people ascribe impact and value to simply because of athleticism.

hardenASG13 wrote:Why do you hate on the one guy who the thunder have brought in that has actually developed and improved alot.


Because he's still not close to good enough to warrant the role they're giving him. That's why.

hardenASG13 wrote:They were great to start the game, with grant. Stop hating just because you all hated grant 2 years ago.


Cool. So Jerami Grant was on the floor when the Boston Celtics could not buy a bucket and actually managed to shoot worse than us.

Grant still sucks. He worked last season in a very specific role. A role they can't give him because he's the worst of our bigmen and you can't play Noel and Adams together. So now he's back to dancing on the perimeter and being borderline unplayable. But hey, at least he has the green light from the coaching staff. I'm looking forward to his next fadeaway jumper. He's come such a long, long, way.


Patterson is in a slump huh? It's been a slump for over a year then. Grant does take some tough shots, but like slick says, what else is he supposed to do, not try to make plays that they desperately need to keep defenses honest? Who else will? Adams?Ferguson? Abrines? Nope. Patterson? Very rarely creates anything. Maybe you are happy with russ and pg creating everything, but they are not russ/kd. Its not working. Someone has to try to make plays to make them harder to guard. His drives to the basket are not close to as bad as you like to pretend they still are. He's extremely active defensively, blocks and alters shots, and brings energy that patterson simply doesnt.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#288 » by Pillendreher » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:40 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:Patterson is in a slump huh? It's been a slump for over a year then.


As a Thunder, Patterson has been making 37.8 % of his 3s.

hardenASG13 wrote:Grant does take some tough shots, but like slick says, what else is he supposed to do, not try to make plays that they desperately need to keep defenses honest? Who else will? Adams?Ferguson? Abrines? Nope. Patterson? Very rarely creates anything. Maybe you are happy with russ and pg creating everything, but they are not russ/kd. Its not working. Someone has to try to make plays to make them harder to guard. His drives to the basket are not close to as bad as you like to pretend they still are.


The platitutdes you're employing here are not actually saying anything. You could put me out there with the starters and I could run into defenders and fall down. That doesn't mean I'm keeping the other team "honest" or that I'm "making plays".

It's not a coincidence that the Thunder were at their best with Grant on the floor when he was playing the 5 and not the 4 last season. Per ctg, the team went from 45th percentile in NetRtG with Grant playing the 4 to 85th percentile with Grant playing the 5. Grant at the 5 meant him playing closer to the basket which made it possible for Abrines and Patterson to space the floor and let him go at opposing bigmen. He was indeed very effective in that role, maybe even being the best player in the league at drawing fouls while driving last season. Now he's out there on the perimeter most of the time, bombing away with 3s and driving into the opposing defenses that clog the paint because there's one less shooter on the floor with Grant playing the 4. You can't run PnR with him (which worked out very well last season too) because you still have Adams or Noel in the paint and people are sagging off of Grant because he can't shoot.

I've referred to this in the offseason. With Noel on this squad and Patterson supposedly finally getting minutes with Adams, there's no way you can use Grant like they did last season. For Grant to play the 4, you'd need a 5 that can shoot. We don't have that and now have even less shooting than last sesaon.

hardenASG13 wrote:He's extremely active defensively, blocks and alters shots, and brings energy that patterson simply doesnt.


Yes, he is indeed active. Being out of place is being active as well.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#289 » by spearsy23 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:08 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:I'm ready for next game.

Phoenix is actually kinda fun, and will be if they get a point guard.

Point book is for real. They need a Derek Fisher clone.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#290 » by spearsy23 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:13 pm

Also, super early and all, but DeAndre Ayton is averaging 3.5 assists and only 1 turnover in addition to killing it scoring and rebounding. That's a fun team.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#291 » by bondom34 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:55 pm

spearsy23 wrote:Also, super early and all, but DeAndre Ayton is averaging 3.5 assists and only 1 turnover in addition to killing it scoring and rebounding. That's a fun team.

He is still pretty bad defensively. They're fun but real bad right now. A guy like Bev or Smart would be great though.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#292 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Knrstz wrote:Is Russ a top ten player anymore? Is George top twenty?



Yes. Debatable.

LeBron, cupcake, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, AD, Giannias, Jokic, Russ, Butler - top 10 and the order is VERY debatable

Embiib, Dipo, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Simmons, Porter Jr, Draymond, Blake, Gobert, PG, KAT, Klay, Kyrie, Lillard, McCollum, Beal and Kemba are the guys I'd argue are in the top 20 debate. A healthy Cousins and Prozingis also get in the conversation. I think PG is still top 20, but Russ could easily no longer be top 10 by the end of the season as Simmons, Embiid, Mitchell and KAT continue to build their careers, Russ declines, etc.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Commitment to Mediocrity 

Post#293 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:59 pm

slick_watts wrote:my guess is that the thunder honestly believe 'dre might come back healthy and all will be sunshine and roses with the 'dre starters minus carmelo anthony. if the thunder struggle for much longer and donovan isn't canned i think this would be why. there's a reason they had him on an 'accelerated rehab' over the summer.


The problem is that Andre is done. Has anyone watched Lin this season? He is done. I mention Lin because he is "coming back" from the same injury. Lin can no longer shoot, be effective on offense or play defense at even a bad level. Maybe he gets back to a bad level of play, but right now Lin doesn't even look like an NBA player which is why it is considered a career ending injury.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#294 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:14 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Is Russ a top ten player anymore? Is George top twenty?



Yes. Debatable.

LeBron, cupcake, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, AD, Giannias, Jokic, Russ, Butler - top 10 and the order is VERY debatable

Embiib, Dipo, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Simmons, Porter Jr, Draymond, Blake, Gobert, PG, KAT, Klay, Kyrie, Lillard, McCollum, Beal and Kemba are the guys I'd argue are in the top 20 debate. A healthy Cousins and Prozingis also get in the conversation. I think PG is still top 20, but Russ could easily no longer be top 10 by the end of the season as Simmons, Embiid, Mitchell and KAT continue to build their careers, Russ declines, etc.

I’m off the kat train. He’s a joke.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#295 » by Jstock12 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:18 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Is Russ a top ten player anymore? Is George top twenty?



Yes. Debatable.

LeBron, cupcake, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, AD, Giannias, Jokic, Russ, Butler - top 10 and the order is VERY debatable

Embiib, Dipo, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Simmons, Porter Jr, Draymond, Blake, Gobert, PG, KAT, Klay, Kyrie, Lillard, McCollum, Beal and Kemba are the guys I'd argue are in the top 20 debate. A healthy Cousins and Prozingis also get in the conversation. I think PG is still top 20, but Russ could easily no longer be top 10 by the end of the season as Simmons, Embiid, Mitchell and KAT continue to build their careers, Russ declines, etc.


There is no way that I'm taking Porter Jr, KAT, McCollum, Beal or Kemba over a healthy Porzingis. It's not even close. He's been elite defensively for the Knicks and has the potential to become a Nowitzki level on offense.

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#296 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Jstock12 wrote:There is no way that I'm taking Porter Jr, KAT, McCollum, Beal or Kemba over a healthy Porzingis. It's not even close. He's been elite defensively for the Knicks and has the potential to become a Nowitzki level on offense.


The key word is HEALTHY. He is not right now and while we expect him to return 100% we don't know for certain he will. If he doesn't get hurt is at worst a top 15 player right now. Only complaint I have on Porzingis right now is that he needs to develop his post game and I'm only pointing that out to nitpick since we are talking about top 20 players. If Porzingis adds a post game he could be a top 5 player in his prime.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#297 » by Pillendreher » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:37 pm

Grant is still leading the team in 4th quarter minutes.

378th in raw +/- in the 4th quarter

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#298 » by bondom34 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:08 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Is Russ a top ten player anymore? Is George top twenty?



Yes. Debatable.

LeBron, cupcake, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, AD, Giannias, Jokic, Russ, Butler - top 10 and the order is VERY debatable

Embiib, Dipo, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Simmons, Porter Jr, Draymond, Blake, Gobert, PG, KAT, Klay, Kyrie, Lillard, McCollum, Beal and Kemba are the guys I'd argue are in the top 20 debate. A healthy Cousins and Prozingis also get in the conversation. I think PG is still top 20, but Russ could easily no longer be top 10 by the end of the season as Simmons, Embiid, Mitchell and KAT continue to build their careers, Russ declines, etc.

I’m off the kat train. He’s a joke.

Kyrie and CJ and Porter and Beal also have no place there.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#299 » by spearsy23 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:25 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:

Yes. Debatable.

LeBron, cupcake, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, AD, Giannias, Jokic, Russ, Butler - top 10 and the order is VERY debatable

Embiib, Dipo, Lowry, Donovan Mitchell, Simmons, Porter Jr, Draymond, Blake, Gobert, PG, KAT, Klay, Kyrie, Lillard, McCollum, Beal and Kemba are the guys I'd argue are in the top 20 debate. A healthy Cousins and Prozingis also get in the conversation. I think PG is still top 20, but Russ could easily no longer be top 10 by the end of the season as Simmons, Embiid, Mitchell and KAT continue to build their careers, Russ declines, etc.

I’m off the kat train. He’s a joke.

Kyrie and CJ and Porter and Beal also have no place there.

At this point are you really comfortable saying George is the best of those four?

Minus Porter obviously because lol
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#300 » by Pillendreher » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:25 pm

"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said

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