Ken Berger: Ball was being shopped, Hart/Zubac/Wagner are being shopped

[dockingsched]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2816403-the-bradley-beal-sweepstakes-is-on-execs-dish-on-deals-for-nbas-top-trade-chip

In the West, the Lakers have to be part of the conversation because of the LeBron James factor, though it's not clear to rival executives whom they're willing to trade in any deal and whom they aren't.

"At one point a month ago, they were dangling Lonzo [Ball] a little bit, but now they don't want to trade him," one of the execs said.

Josh Hart, Ivica Zubac and Moritz Wagner are available, rival executives say, while pretty much everyone else is off the table. To get Beal, it's going to take a lot more than that.

[Landsberger]

If Beal is a realistic target for us I'd trade Ball or Ingram in the deal. Bron is essentially a PG for us anyway and having Rondo would lessen the blow of losing Ball. Beal would instantly balance the floor and provide another guy capable of getting 20 on any night.

Interesting that the 3 guys with guaranteed contracts are available. I'd hesitate to trade Zu in any deal that doesn't bring back a big. Chandler is a stop-gap solution and McGee is decent.

[Laker_Kid]

I’d trade them for Vucevic. works short term and he’s also an expiring if he doesnt pan out

[One Love]

What do you guys think of Marc Gasol... He will be 33 This month & is in the last year of his deal... Memphis wants to rebuild & would probably take BI or Zub/Hart... I like his game but I am concerned with his age...

Ball (6’6”), KCP (6’5”), LBJ (6’8”), Kuzz (6’9”) & Gasol (7’0”) would be a very dangerous offensive lineup... Gasol defensive ratings are higher than I thought & he can spread the floor too...

Lakeshow Baby...

[Michael Lucky]

At what point do we start shopping Ingram?

[Spanish_Laker]

Marc Gasol or Vucevic would definitely help us secure the 7th/8th seed. Do it Magic.

[myersia]

At what point do we start shopping Ingram?

One would think now


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[Pythagoras]

I’d trade them for Vucevic. works short term and he’s also an expiring if he doesnt pan out

Me too. I thought it was a mistake to let BroLo go, and Vuc is basically a rich man’s version of him.

[stan francisco]

Jokic/Nurkic/Vucevic in that order. Zubac might get to their level soon so we don’t exactly need to panic. If he boxes out more fiercely on defensive rebounds like they do, he’ll be an inch closer.

[TJM217]

I don’t see the point of trading for an expiring contract. Unless we get Davis we aren’t beating GS this year. Unless it’s a championship move I wouldn’t make a trade.

[Kilroy]

Jokic/Nurkic/Vucevic in that order. Zubac might get to their level soon so we don’t exactly need to panic. If he boxes out more fiercely on defensive rebounds like they do, he’ll be an inch closer.

The flip side of that is that those guys are almost not as good a fit next to LeBron/Superstar 1/Superstar 2/Ball as Zubac is... We don't really need an all-star level C, we just need a guy that does exactly what Zu does... Run the floor, box out and rebound well, and has great hands/touch around the rim... Whoever we get likely isn't going to get the chance to do more than that anyway.

Assuming of course his trajectory is less Bynum and more Marc Gasol...

[Landsberger]

I don’t see the point of trading for an expiring contract. Unless we get Davis we aren’t beating GS this year. Unless it’s a championship move I wouldn’t make a trade.

I don't see a "championship move" that we could make. Davis alone isn't going to put us over the top. I'm not sold on him being a huge difference maker. Leonard is a better move but even less likely.

I'd like to fill in around Bron and Kuzma and see where we are. Beal add in along with a bench scorer and I think we'd be a very competitive team. We desperately need a guard that can finish and shoot the 3 while creating his own shots. Ball is a long ways away from that. If we could get Beal for Ingram I'd do it and see what that looks like come the draft/FA period.

That said, I still see the FO wanting names over fit.... I think Magic's pride is on the line since we were basically rebuffed by PG and Leonard last summer. He's going to double down.

[Spens1]

I'd target Bradley Beal, I know Kawhi Leonard is someone we want and A.D is someone we're targeting long term but realistically, we do need someone who can shoot and be that 2nd option to Lebron and Beal is young enough to play with this core (that is, if the price isn't too high), now obviously this package wouldn't be enough, but if we can get Beal without trading Ingram, Kuzma or Ball (add two firsts maybe if we must) then he's as old as Kuzma is now.

Ball-Beal-Lebron-Kuzma-Mcgee

that would be a top 4 team i'd imagine, then we just need to find a way to manuever our way to A.D (maybe that will cost the farm then, but it wouldn't matter, as we would have a big 3).

[stan francisco]

Jokic/Nurkic/Vucevic in that order. Zubac might get to their level soon so we don’t exactly need to panic. If he boxes out more fiercely on defensive rebounds like they do, he’ll be an inch closer.

The flip side of that is that those guys are almost not as good a fit next to LeBron/Superstar 1/Superstar 2/Ball as Zubac is... We don't really need an all-star level C, we just need a guy that does exactly what Zu does... Run the floor, box out and rebound well, and has great hands/touch around the rim... Whoever we get likely isn't going to get the chance to do more than that anyway.

Assuming of course his trajectory is less Bynum and more Marc Gasol...

I’m with you. And I have patience. I just don’t want to lose Luke. How quickly can he bulk up and bang a bit? That’s the question. With his recent play... No brainer if he keeps this up and builds on it. Right now, he’s a scrawny kid compared to those three beasts. Cousins is a beast. It all goes through him as far as our choice of C goes.

[ardee]

I’d trade them for Vucevic. works short term and he’s also an expiring if he doesnt pan out

Me too. I thought it was a mistake to let BroLo go, and Vuc is basically a rich man’s version of him.

We should have kept Lopez AND Randle. Then try and trade Ingram for someone like Beal, that's not an unrealistic move if we throw in incentives.

Ball/Beal/LeBron/Randle/Lopez is a super balanced and devastating lineup. We'd still have Rondo/Hart/Kuzma/Zubac off the bench. Legit second option for LeBron in Beal, and a third in Randle. Very deep. That would have been a title worthy team IMO if Ball keeps improving, not really worse than the Bucks who are the best team in the league rn, thanks in a good part to how transformative Lopez has been for their offense.

[Slava]

I’d trade them for Vucevic. works short term and he’s also an expiring if he doesnt pan out

Me too. I thought it was a mistake to let BroLo go, and Vuc is basically a rich man’s version of him.

We should have kept Lopez AND Randle. Then try and trade Ingram for someone like Beal, that's not an unrealistic move if we throw in incentives.

Ball/Beal/LeBron/Randle/Lopez is a super balanced and devastating lineup. We'd still have Rondo/Hart/Kuzma/Zubac off the bench. Legit second option for LeBron in Beal, and a third in Randle. Very deep. That would have been a title worthy team IMO if Ball keeps improving, not really worse than the Bucks who are the best team in the league rn, thanks in a good part to how transformative Lopez has been for their offense.

I think the question they asked themselves was what does it take to beat a team with 4 all stars? In a series, after LeBron, the 2nd and 3rd best players are on the Warriors, then its down to how you evaluate Klay/Draymond vs Beal for the 4th best player.

Is the gap between LeBron and Curry greater than the gap between Klay, KD, Dray & Warriors bench vs Beal/Lopez/Randle & Lakers bench? That's what it comes down to. Lakers kind of needed a scenario where they could have the best of both worlds in the sense that they could use their cap to sign a max free agent while also getting above $/min production from the rookie contracts. That's what they went for, but obviously that didn't completely work out.

Now if you go ahead and lock yourself into a LeBron/Beal/Randle core, this gives someone like the Clippers an open run at adding Durant and Leonard in the summer and adding another obstacle in the same conference. That's what you give up by going all in, in the first year of LeBron in LA.

Of course this was all more avoidable if at least didn't offer one of Mozgov or Deng long term money in 2016, but that's hindsight.

[ardee]

Me too. I thought it was a mistake to let BroLo go, and Vuc is basically a rich man’s version of him.

We should have kept Lopez AND Randle. Then try and trade Ingram for someone like Beal, that's not an unrealistic move if we throw in incentives.

Ball/Beal/LeBron/Randle/Lopez is a super balanced and devastating lineup. We'd still have Rondo/Hart/Kuzma/Zubac off the bench. Legit second option for LeBron in Beal, and a third in Randle. Very deep. That would have been a title worthy team IMO if Ball keeps improving, not really worse than the Bucks who are the best team in the league rn, thanks in a good part to how transformative Lopez has been for their offense.

I think the question they asked themselves was what does it take to beat a team with 4 all stars? In a series, after LeBron, the 2nd and 3rd best players are on the Warriors, then its down to how you evaluate Klay/Draymond vs Beal for the 4th best player.

Is the gap between LeBron and Curry greater than the gap between Klay, KD, Dray & Warriors bench vs Beal/Lopez/Randle & Lakers bench? That's what it comes down to. Lakers kind of needed a scenario where they could have the best of both worlds in the sense that they could use their cap to sign a max free agent while also getting above $/min production from the rookie contracts. That's what they went for, but obviously that didn't completely work out.

Now if you go ahead and lock yourself into a LeBron/Beal/Randle core, this gives someone like the Clippers an open run at adding Durant and Leonard in the summer and adding another obstacle in the same conference. That's what you give up by going all in, in the first year of LeBron in LA.

Of course this was all more avoidable if at least didn't offer one of Mozgov or Deng long term money in 2016, but that's hindsight.

Well with the benefit of hindsight at least we can say Klay and Dray have been pretty bad this year. Neither are All-Star caliber, in particular Dray. I would easily take Beal over either.

It's more like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Beal as the top 4, then poorer versions of Klay and Dray, whatever they get from Cousins who honestly I don't think moves the needle very much given their style of play, Igoudala who is basically done and a bunch of mediocre bench players, vs. Ball (who I think would flourish with a good amount of creative pressure taken off him if we had Beal/Randle), Randle, Kuzma (who'd get even more open looks), Lopez, Rondo, KCP, McGee. I honestly like our hypothetical group a good bit more after the top 2.

Again, I think the Bucks comparison is a good one. They're the best team in the league, built around a dominant superstar at the 3/4 (Giannis is better in the RS, LeBron will be in the Playoffs), a secondary star perimeter player in Middleton (Beal is better), a shooting center (Lopez in both cases), and well fitting role players (they have mainly Bledsoe, Brogdon and Ilyasova). Plus the team would be a lot deeper.

If the Bucks can be a 9 SRS team, even if LeBron doesn't keep at it as hard as Giannis, that team I think could still at least reach a level that has them contending for a title.

As for going all in, we kind of have to. He's not a spring chicken. If he came here right after Miami, I'd say cool, we can wait a year. But I think we'd have as good or probably a better chance of winning the title with LeBron having a deep, Bucks-like team around him as we would of getting another superstar free-agent in the offseason. We'd be hoping that not only do we get the superstar, but that LeBron's own level doesn't fall off to the point where he can't beat the Warriors anymore.

LeBron doesn't need an All-NBA player to beat the Warriors: he did it with '16 Kyrie, against a better Warriors team than the current one, who IMO was basically a medium level All-Star. He just needs a reliable second star, and a deep team of defenders and shooters. And even if he doesn't, I'd rather spend these years as a top seed, possibly losing in the WCF in a close series, than in the current situation, holding out a small hope we somehow get another superstar.

[Pythagoras]

We should have kept Lopez AND Randle. Then try and trade Ingram for someone like Beal, that's not an unrealistic move if we throw in incentives.

Ball/Beal/LeBron/Randle/Lopez is a super balanced and devastating lineup. We'd still have Rondo/Hart/Kuzma/Zubac off the bench. Legit second option for LeBron in Beal, and a third in Randle. Very deep. That would have been a title worthy team IMO if Ball keeps improving, not really worse than the Bucks who are the best team in the league rn, thanks in a good part to how transformative Lopez has been for their offense.

I think the question they asked themselves was what does it take to beat a team with 4 all stars? In a series, after LeBron, the 2nd and 3rd best players are on the Warriors, then its down to how you evaluate Klay/Draymond vs Beal for the 4th best player.

Is the gap between LeBron and Curry greater than the gap between Klay, KD, Dray & Warriors bench vs Beal/Lopez/Randle & Lakers bench? That's what it comes down to. Lakers kind of needed a scenario where they could have the best of both worlds in the sense that they could use their cap to sign a max free agent while also getting above $/min production from the rookie contracts. That's what they went for, but obviously that didn't completely work out.

Now if you go ahead and lock yourself into a LeBron/Beal/Randle core, this gives someone like the Clippers an open run at adding Durant and Leonard in the summer and adding another obstacle in the same conference. That's what you give up by going all in, in the first year of LeBron in LA.

Of course this was all more avoidable if at least didn't offer one of Mozgov or Deng long term money in 2016, but that's hindsight.

Well with the benefit of hindsight at least we can say Klay and Dray have been pretty bad this year. Neither are All-Star caliber, in particular Dray. I would easily take Beal over either.

It's more like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Beal as the top 4, then poorer versions of Klay and Dray, whatever they get from Cousins who honestly I don't think moves the needle very much given their style of play, Igoudala who is basically done and a bunch of mediocre bench players, vs. Ball (who I think would flourish with a good amount of creative pressure taken off him if we had Beal/Randle), Randle, Kuzma (who'd get even more open looks), Lopez, Rondo, KCP, McGee. I honestly like our hypothetical group a good bit more after the top 2.

Again, I think the Bucks comparison is a good one. They're the best team in the league, built around a dominant superstar at the 3/4 (Giannis is better in the RS, LeBron will be in the Playoffs), a secondary star perimeter player in Middleton (Beal is better), a shooting center (Lopez in both cases), and well fitting role players (they have mainly Bledsoe, Brogdon and Ilyasova). Plus the team would be a lot deeper.

If the Bucks can be a 9 SRS team, even if LeBron doesn't keep at it as hard as Giannis, that team I think could still at least reach a level that has them contending for a title.

As for going all in, we kind of have to. He's not a spring chicken. If he came here right after Miami, I'd say cool, we can wait a year. But I think we'd have as good or probably a better chance of winning the title with LeBron having a deep, Bucks-like team around him as we would of getting another superstar free-agent in the offseason. We'd be hoping that not only do we get the superstar, but that LeBron's own level doesn't fall off to the point where he can't beat the Warriors anymore.

LeBron doesn't need an All-NBA player to beat the Warriors: he did it with '16 Kyrie, against a better Warriors team than the current one, who IMO was basically a medium level All-Star. He just needs a reliable second star, and a deep team of defenders and shooters. And even if he doesn't, I'd rather spend these years as a top seed, possibly losing in the WCF in a close series, than in the current situation, holding out a small hope we somehow get another superstar.

The Bucks is actually a really good comparison. I hadn’t even thought about it till you mentioned it.

[Slava]

We should have kept Lopez AND Randle. Then try and trade Ingram for someone like Beal, that's not an unrealistic move if we throw in incentives.

Ball/Beal/LeBron/Randle/Lopez is a super balanced and devastating lineup. We'd still have Rondo/Hart/Kuzma/Zubac off the bench. Legit second option for LeBron in Beal, and a third in Randle. Very deep. That would have been a title worthy team IMO if Ball keeps improving, not really worse than the Bucks who are the best team in the league rn, thanks in a good part to how transformative Lopez has been for their offense.

I think the question they asked themselves was what does it take to beat a team with 4 all stars? In a series, after LeBron, the 2nd and 3rd best players are on the Warriors, then its down to how you evaluate Klay/Draymond vs Beal for the 4th best player.

Is the gap between LeBron and Curry greater than the gap between Klay, KD, Dray & Warriors bench vs Beal/Lopez/Randle & Lakers bench? That's what it comes down to. Lakers kind of needed a scenario where they could have the best of both worlds in the sense that they could use their cap to sign a max free agent while also getting above $/min production from the rookie contracts. That's what they went for, but obviously that didn't completely work out.

Now if you go ahead and lock yourself into a LeBron/Beal/Randle core, this gives someone like the Clippers an open run at adding Durant and Leonard in the summer and adding another obstacle in the same conference. That's what you give up by going all in, in the first year of LeBron in LA.

Of course this was all more avoidable if at least didn't offer one of Mozgov or Deng long term money in 2016, but that's hindsight.

Well with the benefit of hindsight at least we can say Klay and Dray have been pretty bad this year. Neither are All-Star caliber, in particular Dray. I would easily take Beal over either.

It's more like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Beal as the top 4, then poorer versions of Klay and Dray, whatever they get from Cousins who honestly I don't think moves the needle very much given their style of play, Igoudala who is basically done and a bunch of mediocre bench players, vs. Ball (who I think would flourish with a good amount of creative pressure taken off him if we had Beal/Randle), Randle, Kuzma (who'd get even more open looks), Lopez, Rondo, KCP, McGee. I honestly like our hypothetical group a good bit more after the top 2.

Again, I think the Bucks comparison is a good one. They're the best team in the league, built around a dominant superstar at the 3/4 (Giannis is better in the RS, LeBron will be in the Playoffs), a secondary star perimeter player in Middleton (Beal is better), a shooting center (Lopez in both cases), and well fitting role players (they have mainly Bledsoe, Brogdon and Ilyasova). Plus the team would be a lot deeper.

If the Bucks can be a 9 SRS team, even if LeBron doesn't keep at it as hard as Giannis, that team I think could still at least reach a level that has them contending for a title.

As for going all in, we kind of have to. He's not a spring chicken. If he came here right after Miami, I'd say cool, we can wait a year. But I think we'd have as good or probably a better chance of winning the title with LeBron having a deep, Bucks-like team around him as we would of getting another superstar free-agent in the offseason. We'd be hoping that not only do we get the superstar, but that LeBron's own level doesn't fall off to the point where he can't beat the Warriors anymore.

LeBron doesn't need an All-NBA player to beat the Warriors: he did it with '16 Kyrie, against a better Warriors team than the current one, who IMO was basically a medium level All-Star. He just needs a reliable second star, and a deep team of defenders and shooters. And even if he doesn't, I'd rather spend these years as a top seed, possibly losing in the WCF in a close series, than in the current situation, holding out a small hope we somehow get another superstar.

Do you seriously think the current version of Klay and Draymond is the version we might see in the playoffs? I don't expect such a drastic decline from either and both are playing into pretty good form right about now.

I would wait on calling the Bucks as a model of anything. Budenholzer teams have exceed expectations in the regular season before and then consistently failed to meet those expectations in the playoffs.

We do have to go all-in sooner than later and plan A could have worked out quite well too had Paul George not done a complete 180 against all expectation and signed an inexplicable 3 year deal in OKC.

[TheHartBreakKid]

I like Beal simply because his contract/age is friendly enough for us to be able to trade him in a later deal if need be.


Beal would probably by himself be the best asset on the table for an expiring AD with a short list of teams he would resign for.



The spurs raptor trade is a great example of what teams are looking for now in a trade for a superstar....another all star, a young piece or two, and a pick or two. And teams are willing to part with that for said superstar even if they aren't on the "short list"


Let's say B.I, Zu, KCP and a future first is the price for Beal.


Beal by himself is way more valuable in a potential AD trade than those pieces combined, especially considering how B.I would be entering RFA next year.