David Robinson or Kevin Garnett?

[AMW27]

Who would you rather have? I think this is an interesting comparison. Even with the criticism Robinson gets, I would still pick him.

[Texas Chuck]

If I had a good team adding one final piece its KG. If I am starting an expansion team or a complete rebuild it's David Robinson.

[AMW27]

If I had a good team adding one final piece its KG. If I am starting an expansion team or a complete rebuild it's David Robinson.

I agree. But I'll probably take Robinson in both sutuations.

[eminence]

I'm a KG guy and I'll stick with him here, think the passing advantage is more valuable across situations. Earlier days of the league I'd imagine Robinson would have an even stronger argument.

[Jaivl]

Depends if the team I'm managing has won a championship before or not.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I think David Robinson was better. I like Robinson's peak better than Tim Duncan's peak.

Where I think young peak Robinson fails is leadership. If my team was full of emotionally immature players then I think KG might get more out of the team.

[Laimbeer]

If I had a good team adding one final piece its KG. If I am starting an expansion team or a complete rebuild it's David Robinson.

I agree. But I'll probably take Robinson in both sutuations.

I was thinking just the opposite. He wasn't as great on the low post, and was more ancillary than some of the other great centers. He also didn't have an alpha mindset.

[G35]

I think David Robinson was better. I like Robinson's peak better than Tim Duncan's peak.

Where I think young peak Robinson fails is leadership. If my team was full of emotionally immature players then I think KG might get more out of the team.

People seem to only consider Garnett when he was with the Celtics and not how he was when he was with Minnesota, arguably his best years.

Garnett was not much of a leader, imo. I think he was very immature and fought with teammates all the time. His "intensity" is not always the the ideal way to lead men:

- Garnett punching out Rick Rickert
http://www.startribune.com/rick-rickert-talks-about-the-time-kevin-garnett-punched-him/320963661/

We still don’t exactly know, but thanks to a D-League Diary interview with Rickert that was published today we at least have a more complete and honest picture of what happened from his perspective. Said Rickert in that interview:

“I was a rookie proving myself and going in there and giving it my all. He was the reigning MVP at the time and I was going in there and not holding back and I was playing well and for whatever reason he didn’t like that. Maybe I hit a jumper on him but he sucker punched me. All I can think of is I was playing better than he expected and he didn’t like that I was playing so well against him. Growing up he was a guy I looked at and thought was a good player, so going into playing against him I wouldn’t back down from a challenge. I guess he didn’t like that.”

- Garnett and Wally Z
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/garnett-szczerbiak-scuffle-after-practice-1.234602

Billups, who teamed with Garnett in Minnesota from 2000 to '02, says one of his most vivid memories of Garnett is from a Timberwolves shootaround in which Saunders tried to familiarize the team with its next opponent. The coach attempted to run through that team's offensive sets for the starters but was thwarted by Garnett, who refused to stop denying his player the ball during the walk-through. "I warned KG," Billups says. "I told him, 'You keep yelling this s--- at people and someone is going to come back at you.'"

That guy, Billups says, was former Wolves teammate Wally Szczerbiak. "I got along with Wally just fine, but he was kind of a know-it-all," Billups says. "I took his arrogance to be a positive all players gotta have, but KG took it a different way. It was KG's team, his voice, his show, his everything. Anyone who differed was going to be an outcast."

The tension boiled over during a November 2000 practice, when Szczerbiak reportedly got picked off and chided Garnett to call out the screens. KG responded curtly, "Play some defense," the pickoff seemingly a consequence for whatever expectation Szczerbiak wasn't meeting defensively. Szczerbiak took exception. It accelerated into a shouting match, which spilled into the training room. Punches were thrown. Ask Szczerbiak about it today and he says he was simply a young player trying to stick up for himself. "I felt like I had some leadership qualities," he says. "I'm not a guy who will take a back seat all the time, and in certain scenarios I'm going to speak up for what's right. At times it definitely got me in trouble."

- Garnett and Ray Allen
https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/12/boston-celtics-big-three-ray-allen-paints-picture-of-relationship-with-kevin-garnett-as-tenuous-from-the-start/

Deveney highlighted a number of interesting story lines from the book in a recent article, including several excerpts that suggest Allen’s notoriously icy relationship with Kevin Garnett may have been strained from the very start.

Allen recalled dribbling in front of his locker during the Celtics’ preseason trip to Rome in 2007, which was something Allen had done to prepare for games his entire career. The dribbling annoyed Garnett, though, who told Allen, “No, you’re not going to do that.”

“No,” Garnett said, “I tip way better than him, so you better give me the check.” It was the first time they’d gone to dinner together, and Allen pointed out that Garnett had no idea how much Allen tipped. “There was no point in arguing with the guy,” Allen writes. “What struck me was that he felt the need to be seen as being superior to me, even in something as petty as this.”

Garnett and Joakim Noah
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/joakim-noahs-hatred-for-kevin-garnett-started-when-he-was-a-rookie/

Garnett’s former teammate Paul Pierce said the first time Noah met Garnett on the basketball court, the very intense Garnett rubbed the then-rookie Noah the wrong way.

One time, he asked [Joakim] Noah if he could rub through his hair, like a female or something.…And I know that kind of made [Noah] hot. And this was when Noah was a rookie, too. I remember Noah looked up to KG. He was like, ‘Man, KG, I had your poster on my wall, I looked up to you, man.’ And then [Garnett] just said something like that, and was like ‘F— you, Noah.’ I was like, ‘Whoa.’ This kid fresh out of college, looks up to KG, just said he had his poster on the wall, and he tells him that! It crushed him. It crushed Noah.

Garnett and Tim Duncan
https://www.complex.com/sports/2016/09/meanest-things-kevin-garnett-ever-said/mothers-day

The Timberwolves faced the Spurs at the Alamodome for a first round playoff game on May 9, 1999. At some point during that game, Garnett told Duncan “Happy Mother’s Day, M***********” as the Spurs legend lined up for a free throw.

Duncan’s mother passed away of breast cancer, one day before Tim’s 14th birthday in 1990.

While this incident has never been confirmed, what is confirmed is that Duncan hates Garnett, according to a 2012 Sports Illustrated profile:

“In fact, Duncan hates Kevin Garnett. Hates him the way liberals hate Sean Hannity. This information comes from very reliable sources, who talk about how KG has made a career of trying to punk Duncan, baiting him and slapping him and whispering really weird smack into his ear. They talk about how funny this is, because the worst thing you can do as an opponent is piss off Duncan. Then, as Malik Rose says, "he f------ destroys you." Duncan's lifetime numbers versus Garnett's teams, by the way: 19.4 points per game, 11.6 boards and a 44-17 record, including the postseason.
Duncan is diplomatic about the topic. Asked if perhaps all those years battling Garnett have softened his feelings for the man, led to a Magic-Larry type of kinship, Duncan leans back on the couch in his hotel room and grins. There is a pause. A longer pause. Finally he says, "Define kinship.”

I can go all day with the fights KG has had with teammates and opponents. That's great that he has intensity and is very competitive, I like that in a player. But leadership is not getting into fights, micromanaging, and dictating.

KG fans always want to go to the stats or talk about intensity and that is why he and Tim Duncan are on the same level...that if KG and Duncan reversed situations KG would have 5 rings and Duncan might have none. That all KG needed was Pop, Manu, and Parker.

There is no chance in HELL that KG is ever the leader that Duncan or even Robinson were for the Spurs. Robinson mentored Duncan and they got along great. DRob is very underrated in how he handled Tim being drafted and passing the torch to him in his rookie season.

Robinson is a better all around player than KG, a better defender than KG, a better leader than KG, carried his teams better than KG and has better stats than KG. In 1995, Robinson's teammates were not even as good as KG's teammates in 2004. Cassell would be the best teammate Robinson ever had on the Spurs.

KG is so overrated its comical now......

[eminence]

Not a fan of either's leadership. KG is a hyper-competitive ****. Robinson the most holier-than-thou star I can think of.

[pandrade83]

I guess it depends on the setting. I have KG higher on my GOAT list - and even a full tier above though to be fair, longevity drives a bit of that. However, Robinson's 7 year run from '90-'96 is quite impressive and is something you can put against anyone in terms of his capabilities & skill-set.

[Texas Chuck]

Robinson the most holier-than-thou star I can think of.

I've literally never heard this take. Yes, no doubt Robinson stuck to the values he believed and conducted himself in a certain way, but I don't recall him ever acting better than others because of it. Do you have some documentation of this? Or are you just personally turned off by his value system?

I mean I wouldn't even describe Tim Tebow as holier than thou or Jeremy Lin, two other very vocally religious athletes. Or A.C Green or Russell Wilson who were willing to be public virgins. Of course I admire those who stick to their principles even if they may be different from my own so maybe they bother others more than me.

[Owly]

Not a fan of either's leadership. KG is a hyper-competitive ****. Robinson the most holier-than-thou star I can think of.

Any sources on this (I mean the broad point/implication - that you said it evidence that it is what you thought)?

Obviously he was religious but hadn't got a general "holier-than-thou" impression myself, otoh.

(Just seen TC respond, in preview of this post, somewhat similarly)

[eminence]

Probably something about AIDS being a plague sent by god.

edit: Here's an SI article that mentions the incident, though I can't find the original myself as of now.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

[Texas Chuck]

Probably something about AIDS being a plague sent by god.

edit: Here's an SI article that mentions the incident, though I can't find the original myself as of now.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

Right so its a belief you don't like. Not really at all the same thing as being holier than thou around his teammates, tho right? And nothing in that article suggests anything like that. I can appreciate being turned off by a player's beliefs or lifestyle. For instance this year when everyone was falling all over themselves over Derrick Rose, I was turned off still by some of his personal choices and refused to join in the chorus of this "amazing redemption story".

But I don't know that what I don't like about him means his teammates don't like him or that he's causing issues. And I wouldn't have Robinson being a very polarizing guy and other than Rodman(so consider the source) I don't recall hearing any teammates say bad things about the guy or that he came off overly preachy.

[bledredwine]

Robinson in nearly any situation.

He was a much more dominant player, on both ends of the court.

The only thing that I can imagine Garnett being better at is rebounding. NO he didn't have a better J like I'm anticipating a few of you will say (who do not know Robinson).

[eminence]

Probably something about AIDS being a plague sent by god.

edit: Here's an SI article that mentions the incident, though I can't find the original myself as of now.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

Right so its a belief you don't like. Not really at all the same thing as being holier than thou around his teammates, tho right? And nothing in that article suggests anything like that. I can appreciate being turned off by a player's beliefs or lifestyle. For instance this year when everyone was falling all over themselves over Derrick Rose, I was turned off still by some of his personal choices and refused to join in the chorus of this "amazing redemption story".

But I don't know that what I don't like about him means his teammates don't like him or that he's causing issues. And I wouldn't have Robinson being a very polarizing guy and other than Rodman(so consider the source) I don't recall hearing any teammates say bad things about the guy or that he came off overly preachy.

A) No I don't like David Robinson (or at least who he was, maybe he's changed out of the public eye, I certainly haven't been following his life post NBA).

B) That is an example of the holier-than-thou attitude/view. It is not a definitive analysis on the matter. Here's a bit on Chuck that strikes me as in the same vein:
"I love Charles to death," he says. "We've had many, many great
conversations. You can just see the goodness inside him. It just
wants to come out. Sometimes, though, he just can't help
himself. He goes down that other path."

C) Not being a fan of a guy's leadership is not the same as thinking he's causing issues or saying that his teammates don't like him.

[Jim Naismith]

Probably something about AIDS being a plague sent by god.

edit: Here's an SI article that mentions the incident, though I can't find the original myself as of now.

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

Right so its a belief you don't like. Not really at all the same thing as being holier than thou around his teammates, tho right? And nothing in that article suggests anything like that. I can appreciate being turned off by a player's beliefs or lifestyle. For instance this year when everyone was falling all over themselves over Derrick Rose, I was turned off still by some of his personal choices and refused to join in the chorus of this "amazing redemption story".

But I don't know that what I don't like about him means his teammates don't like him or that he's causing issues. And I wouldn't have Robinson being a very polarizing guy and other than Rodman(so consider the source) I don't recall hearing any teammates say bad things about the guy or that he came off overly preachy.

A) No I don't like David Robinson (or at least who he was, maybe he's changed out of the public eye, I certainly haven't been following his life post NBA).

B) That is an example of the holier-than-thou attitude/view. It is not a definitive analysis on the matter. Here's a bit on Chuck that strikes me as in the same vein:
"I love Charles to death," he says. "We've had many, many great
conversations. You can just see the goodness inside him. It just
wants to come out. Sometimes, though, he just can't help
himself. He goes down that other path."

C) Not being a fan of a guy's leadership is not the same as thinking he's causing issues or saying that his teammates don't like him.

A lot less aggressive than LeBron's rebuke of Barkley.

[eminence]

A lot less aggressive than LeBron's rebuke of Barkley.

Completely unrelated, but sure.

[Jim Naismith]

A lot less aggressive than LeBron's rebuke of Barkley.

Completely unrelated, but sure.

You said Robinson is the most sanctimonious star. He might have have that reputation.

But LeBron might be preachier, just about different things.

[trex_8063]

A lot less aggressive than LeBron's rebuke of Barkley.

Completely unrelated, but sure.

You said Robinson is the most sanctimonious star. He might have have that reputation.

But LeBron might be preachier, just about different things.

Off-topic. Please don't derail a thread that has nothing to do with Lebron by making it about Lebron. Lord knows we have more than enough threads made about him already.