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Durantula or Unibrow?

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KD or AD?

Davis
12
46%
Durant
14
54%
 
Total votes: 26

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Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#1 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jun 7, 2019 5:42 am

Marks is not done.

With the recent Crabbe trade, our Brooklyn Nets have approximately $45mil in capspace this offseason, IN ADDITION to D'Angelo Russell's cap hold of $21mil. Some are speculating that the Nets will renounce DAR's hold, to give them $65mil, enough for 2 max contracts for players with 7-10 years of experience. I don't believe it. We may move Joe and Spencer for pure capspace, we may even waive Graham and Napier before 7/10, while their next year's contracts are un-guaranteed. But I don't see waiving Russell as part of the plan. I think that he and Irving could work very well together, and Kyrie is already sending VERY strong signs that he plans to sign with us!

The big question now is, who ELSE do we seek? Beyond Kyrie, the 30yo Kevin Durant and the 26yo Anthony Davis are the biggest names in Nets rumors. KD is a free agent who as a 10+yr vet could garner a salary starting at $39mil (unless he agrees to less), while AD is under contract so we would need to trade with New Orleans. Kevin is injured right now, and you have to wonder at 30 years of age with 12 years of NBA mileage (14 if you count postseasons!), will he physically decline over the course of his next contract?

On the other hand, the bidding for Davis is quite high, so we would need to part with some core pieces to get him. Also, Anthony has a player option for 2020, that he has stated numerous times he will decline. This means despite whatever ties he has to Kyrie, whatever handshake agreements he makes, he is legally a one-year rental. So, given these plausible hypotheticals, which would YOU choose?

DOOR #1: trade Dinwiddie/Harris/Prince/LeVert/Allen for Davis

DOOR #2: trade Dinwiddie/Harris for capspace, waive Graham/Napier, then sign Durant

Let me know in comments how you voted, and why. THANKS!



P.S. There are million and one alternate scenarios, I know, so don't tell me you want door #3. Thats' a copout answer. Among these 2 choices, just tell us if you had to pick, which one you would.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#2 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Jun 7, 2019 1:14 pm

I think we're out of the Davis trade market. He could be a 2020 FA target if we don't sign a 2nd max this year.

I get Durant is the best player in the league, but in many ways I prefer a guy in his mid-20s that's on the same timeline as the rest of the team & keep DLo. Trading Dinwiddie & Harris won't get us enough space unless, Kyrie & KD both take modest discounts.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#3 » by Prokorov » Fri Jun 7, 2019 1:17 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:I think we're out of the Davis trade market. He could be a 2020 FA target if we don't sign a 2nd max this year.

I get Durant is the best player in the league, but in many ways I prefer a guy in his mid-20s that's on the same timeline as the rest of the team & keep DLo. Trading Dinwiddie & Harris won't get us enough space unless, Kyrie & KD both take modest discounts.


Kawhi is the guy we should be going all in for. not durant
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#4 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Jun 7, 2019 1:26 pm

Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I think we're out of the Davis trade market. He could be a 2020 FA target if we don't sign a 2nd max this year.

I get Durant is the best player in the league, but in many ways I prefer a guy in his mid-20s that's on the same timeline as the rest of the team & keep DLo. Trading Dinwiddie & Harris won't get us enough space unless, Kyrie & KD both take modest discounts.


Kawhi is the guy we should be going all in for. not durant

Absolutely, but I think he's staying in Toronto on a 1+1. He'll run it back with the same crew & load management for a year, and see what Masai can put on the court when Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka, etc. all fall off the books.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#5 » by Prokorov » Fri Jun 7, 2019 1:32 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I think we're out of the Davis trade market. He could be a 2020 FA target if we don't sign a 2nd max this year.

I get Durant is the best player in the league, but in many ways I prefer a guy in his mid-20s that's on the same timeline as the rest of the team & keep DLo. Trading Dinwiddie & Harris won't get us enough space unless, Kyrie & KD both take modest discounts.


Kawhi is the guy we should be going all in for. not durant

Absolutely, but I think he's staying in Toronto on a 1+1. He'll run it back with the same crew & load management for a year, and see what Masai can put on the court when Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka, etc. all fall off the books.


I disagree.... too many avenues to go exactly where he wants hassle free. he can walk to the clippers, lakers, nets, knicks with 0 strings and nothing to stop him. not true a year from now. he already had to rely on a trade last offseason and didnt end up where he wanted to be. i cant see him back with the raptors. no matter what
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#6 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Jun 7, 2019 1:42 pm

Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Kawhi is the guy we should be going all in for. not durant

Absolutely, but I think he's staying in Toronto on a 1+1. He'll run it back with the same crew & load management for a year, and see what Masai can put on the court when Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka, etc. all fall off the books.


I disagree.... too many avenues to go exactly where he wants hassle free. he can walk to the clippers, lakers, nets, knicks with 0 strings and nothing to stop him. not true a year from now. he already had to rely on a trade last offseason and didnt end up where he wanted to be. i cant see him back with the raptors. no matter what

I hope you're right. A Kawhi-Kyrie-DLo-LeVert core has dynastic potential.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#7 » by DarkXaero » Fri Jun 7, 2019 4:55 pm

KD because he's a free agent, while we'd have to give up a lot of assets for AD, and I still don't think our offer will compare to the best ones Pelicans will get.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#8 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jun 7, 2019 6:12 pm

Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I think we're out of the Davis trade market. He could be a 2020 FA target if we don't sign a 2nd max this year.

I get Durant is the best player in the league, but in many ways I prefer a guy in his mid-20s that's on the same timeline as the rest of the team & keep DLo. Trading Dinwiddie & Harris won't get us enough space unless, Kyrie & KD both take modest discounts.


Kawhi is the guy we should be going all in for. not durant

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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#9 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:07 am

I'm curious to know whether anyone has additional thoughts on this poll, ever since KD re-injured his right leg on Monday. After rupturing his ACL in game 5 of the Finals, he's likely out for all of next season. Do you still feel as confident that signing him (at the expense of offloading Harris and Dinwiddie) is worth it? We would wait 16 months, and in the fall of 2020, who knows he could be?

Meanwhile, since I originally created this thread, PR from AD's camp has intensified, while NOP seems to be unsatisfied with both LAL's and NYK's offers. Is this perhaps the time to swoop in for a 26yo MVP candidate?
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#10 » by therealbig3 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:12 pm

I just posted in the free agency thread, but I think the smart move is to just avoid Durant at this point. I think signing him to a huge deal if he agreed to come here would be a big failure on our part, I could easily see it becoming like the Amare situation in NY, signing a star player to a monster deal whose injuries just reduce him to a shell of himself and his presence on the team is more of a burden than the asset it was supposed to be.

Durant is a million times better than Amare ever was, but it's the same concept. Don't think anyone ever has come back from an achilles rupture and wasn't out of the league within a few years. Especially a 30+ year old. He's already expected to miss the entire 19-20 season as well.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#11 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:04 pm

therealbig3 wrote:I just posted in the free agency thread, but I think the smart move is to just avoid Durant at this point. I think signing him to a huge deal if he agreed to come here would be a big failure on our part, I could easily see it becoming like the Amare situation in NY, signing a star player to a monster deal whose injuries just reduce him to a shell of himself and his presence on the team is more of a burden than the asset it was supposed to be.

Durant is a million times better than Amare ever was, but it's the same concept. Don't think anyone ever has come back from an achilles rupture and wasn't out of the league within a few years. Especially a 30+ year old. He's already expected to miss the entire 19-20 season as well.

Truly, I understand your perspective. The thought of a $50mil carcass haunting our payroll in 2024 sends shivers down my spine. Folks like Dominique Wilkins and more recently Rudy Gay have bounced back and played as well as before their Achilles injury. You have a point though, the list of guys who have not been able to continue their career is much longer.

It's a risk, but I would pay 4 years @ $164mil for Kevin's age-31, -32 and -33 seasons at 90% of this year's production. I would rather do that than chase any other max guy not named Kawhi or Kristaps. Also, that 90% version is better than anyone we'll find via trade, plus we keep those would-be trade chips. Now, what if he's only 80%? 70%??? That's where it gets scary.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/nba-achilles-injury-history-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-future
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#12 » by Aussienet3 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:26 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:I just posted in the free agency thread, but I think the smart move is to just avoid Durant at this point. I think signing him to a huge deal if he agreed to come here would be a big failure on our part, I could easily see it becoming like the Amare situation in NY, signing a star player to a monster deal whose injuries just reduce him to a shell of himself and his presence on the team is more of a burden than the asset it was supposed to be.

Durant is a million times better than Amare ever was, but it's the same concept. Don't think anyone ever has come back from an achilles rupture and wasn't out of the league within a few years. Especially a 30+ year old. He's already expected to miss the entire 19-20 season as well.

Truly, I understand your perspective. The thought of a $50mil carcass haunting our payroll in 2024 sends shivers down my spine. Folks like Dominique Wilkins and more recently Rudy Gay have bounced back and played as well as before their Achilles injury. You have a point though, the list of guys who have not been able to continue their career is much longer.

It's a risk, but I would pay 4 years @ $164mil for Kevin's age-31, -32 and -33 seasons at 90% of this year's production. I would rather do that than chase any other max guy not named Kawhi or Kristaps. Also, that 90% version is better than anyone we'll find via trade, plus we keep those would-be trade chips. Now, what if he's only 80%? 70%??? That's where it gets scary.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/nba-achilles-injury-history-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-future


It's not like KD's achilles is trying to carry Shaq's body around. Being long and thin has its advantages. KD will be back as good as ever in 9 months time. Marks my words.... 8-) :nod:
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#13 » by SpeedyG » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:57 pm

This is still KD for me. We don't gut our team for him, unlike AD. And if he signs it's because he wants to be here

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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#14 » by ecuhus1981 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:24 am

Aussienet3 wrote:It's not like KD's achilles is trying to carry Shaq's body around. Being long and thin has its advantages. KD will be back as good as ever in 9 months time. Marks my words.... 8-) :nod:

I like the optimism I'm hearing around here! And I dig the pun! :lol:

Yeah, the one piece of solace from that KD article I linked, is that the two players I would most compare to KD from it are Dominique and Rudy. Neither are exactly his body type, but among the players with an Achilles, probably the most similar. You can never be sure, but I have faith that he will bounce back.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#15 » by ecuhus1981 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:27 am

SpeedyG wrote:This is still KD for me. We don't gut our team for him, unlike AD. And if he signs it's because he wants to be here

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EXACTLY!

You know that if he signs, it's because he CHOSE us! As much as a healthy, 26yo superstar would be useful versus a 30yo injured one, I'll ride with the guy that decided Brooklyn was his home, not just a guys biding his time until he can go to LA.

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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#16 » by NyCeEvO » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:44 pm

therealbig3 wrote:I just posted in the free agency thread, but I think the smart move is to just avoid Durant at this point. I think signing him to a huge deal if he agreed to come here would be a big failure on our part, I could easily see it becoming like the Amare situation in NY, signing a star player to a monster deal whose injuries just reduce him to a shell of himself and his presence on the team is more of a burden than the asset it was supposed to be.

Durant is a million times better than Amare ever was, but it's the same concept. Don't think anyone ever has come back from an achilles rupture and wasn't out of the league within a few years. Especially a 30+ year old. He's already expected to miss the entire 19-20 season as well.


I understand your point but the differences between Amare's and KD's situations are so different that it might have been better to not use it as a reference point.

Amaré had arthritic knees. His downfall was not so much "if" as it was "when". I think the Knicks gave him his contract believing that his knees wouldn't give out until the end of the contract. The issue with that was that they had D'Antoni as coach and STAT had no help in the beginning. He was dominating at the start and was in early MVP considerations, but MDA kept playing him ridiculously high minutes, which almost assuredly sped up the knee problems.

Durant's case isn't easy but it's still pretty different. There are 3 main related questions:

1) How long will it take Durant to recover?

There's probably a 95% chance that he's done for all of next year. I could see the slight chance of him returning if we were deep enough into the playoffs and he was 110% healthy. But I don't think we have the talent without him to truly make a deep run and still be playing when he's ready.

2) When Durant recovers, how good will he be?

While it's good to have examples from past players, no major injury is the same for one player as it is for the next, especially considering that each player's body is different.

What makes KD so special is that his effectiveness is predicated on being extremely skilled while being very tall, not on being explosive and super athletic.

I see a lot of people trying to put percentages on KD's ability and say "Well, having KD at 80% is still better than 95% of the league". I always find those arguments ridiculous because no one's effectiveness can be predicted on the basis of not knowing how much each of his skills and/or traits rely upon different athletic abilities or coordination.

What can separate a player from being able to routinely blow by most players (e.g. like Kyrie often does) and not being able to do so can be 0.1 or 0.2 seconds of quickness. Will KD still be able to catch, pump fake, and go around his man with ease or will his quickness be compromised to the degree that more players will be able to catch up to him to contest his shot? We simply don't know.

It is logical to assume that he won't better or as good as he was when he was healthy. The question is how much of what makes KD "KD" will he lose. Maybe the docs believe that KD's profile makes him way nor likely to pull off a Dominique - like return, but we won't know until we actually see him. The Nets are obviously under the belief that KD will still be a superstar, otherwise they wouldn't be willing to offer him the max.

I think it's also important to remember that guys like LBJ (especially), Kawhi, KD, Harden, Antentokoumpo, Steph and a few others are worth way more than the max to their respective franchises, business wise alone. Ultimately, this goes well beyond just salary cap considerations, which unfortunately for fans is all we really care about. For the Nets to go from having never signed a star free agent to not only delivering an allstar, but ALSO adding a MVP and somewhat arguable best player in the world is MASSIVE for the reputation of the organization. If the Nets sign those two, they will almost undoubtedly never be looked at the same.

3) Is a 32yo KD (of assumed relative diminished skill) worth $140mil over 3yrs?

The answer to the first two questions will inform your answer to the last one.

Again, the Nets obviously believe the answer is yes. That doesn't mean they're right, but they're the ones with the power to have him sign a contract, not us.

Related to this, is the question of whether the Nets believe they would be able to attract a player of whatever KD's ability will be when healthy, at some point over the next 3+ seasons.

We know that after this year, we have to start paying our own players big money, so unless we're relying upon trading for a disgruntled superstar, this is probably the only opportunity for a while where we can purely sign talent without having to give up assets/players for it.

This factor alone could make the desire to sign KD, even with his injury concerns, that much greater for the Nets.


If KD had a degenerative arthritic condition like Amare I don't think the Nets offer the deal. I also think there's a big difference between the maximum 4 year contracts we have now versus the 5 year contracts from then. 4 year deals aren't that long. You're thinking about resigning players in no time. The added 5th (and 6th, if you're the home team) year had the potential of making deals feel long in the tooth, especially if a player became injured. Now, it feels like you're always recruiting your own and other teams players because there is so much movement happening all of the time.


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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#17 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:48 pm

If the Nets front office, with an inside track on Durant's medical situation, and a top flight training team and medical staff signing off on making their offer after doing proper due diligence, then I trust them.
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#18 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:12 pm

We've had a small flurry of AD votes over the past few days. Anyone care to pipe up on your perspective?
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#19 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:59 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:We've had a small flurry of AD votes over the past few days. Anyone care to pipe up on your perspective?

Trolls maybe lol?
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Re: Durantula or Unibrow? 

Post#20 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:58 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:We've had a small flurry of AD votes over the past few days. Anyone care to pipe up on your perspective?

Trolls maybe lol?

Good point, I haven't heard from a ton of BRK fans pining for AD lately.

OK, now I'm curious. I wonder if they are Knicks fans, in a snarky, misery-loves-company sort of way? Or perhaps Lakers fans bragging? SHOW YOURSELVES! :)
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