#19 - GOAT peaks project (2019)

[LA Bird]

1) Michael Jordan 1990-91
2) LeBron James 2012-13
3) Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67
4) Shaquille O'Neal 1999-00
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1976-77
6) Tim Duncan 2002-03
7) Larry Bird 1985-86
8) Bill Russell 1963-64
9) Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94
10) Magic Johnson 1986-87
11) Kevin Garnett 2003-04
12) Julius Erving 1975-76
13) Bill Walton 1976-77
14) Oscar Robertson 1963-64
15) Stephen Curry 2015-16
16) Dwyane Wade 2008-09
17) Jerry West 1965-66
18) David Robinson 1994-95

Please include at least 1 sentence of reasoning for each of your 3 picks. A simple list of names will not be counted.
If you're repeating votes from previous rounds, copy and paste the reasoning because "see previous thread for explanation" will not be counted as a valid vote.

Extended deadline: 1am August 31 Eastern Time (We need 3 more votes)

The Voting System:

Everyone gives their 1st choice (4.5 points), 2nd choice (3 points), and 3rd choice (2 points). Highest point-total wins the round.
You can use your 3 choices to vote for more than 1 season of the same player (if you think that the best 3 seasons among the players left belong all to the same player, nothing is stopping you from using all you 3 choices on that player), but you can't continue voting for other seasons of that player once he wins and gets his spot. The final list will be 1 season per player.

Thank you for your participation!

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[Odinn21]

Coming from the previous thread;
1. 1983 Moses Malone
2. 1993 Charles Barkley
3. 2008 Kobe Bryant

1. 1983 Moses Malone
Well, it’s too hard to pick a single season for Moses from 1980-81 to 1982-83. Three great choices... But I’m gonna go with the safest choice. Dominant on every level. According to my own calculations (based on box score numbers though), Moses was on par with many goat level legends such as MJ, Bird, Magic, LeBron regarding performance on a loaded team. Playing on a loaded team, and benefiting from it, is not a con for Moses because he performed as well as anybody.

2. 1993 Charles Barkley
Natural scorer and rebounder and it wasn’t like he didn’t pay attention on defense in this particular season. That WCF performance was something to behold. The Sonics were 5th in ppg allowed and 2nd drtg (also, despite the W numbers, they led the league in SRS) and that 44/24 game 7 performance is one of the best ever game 7 performances. Also, despite losing in 6, the Suns didn’t get outscored by the Bulls in the NBA Finals. That was the level of Chuck elevating the team. I’m particularly big on this because there are team performances winning the series despite not outscoring the opponent but those series are usually decided in the last game, either game 5 or game 7. Not in this case.

3. 2011 Nowitzki
Well, I argued I consider 2006 as Nowitzki’s peak and the last conversation swayed me a little bit. But the thing changed my pick was Dirk blew one big lead in a series, and was very near to blow another one. I watched some of the highlights of SAS-DAL series and Dirk was on the verge of blowing a 3-1 lead if it wasn’t for Manu’s one idiotic single play. Realising that made me go for 2011 as Dirk’s peak. Even though I’m still considering 2008 Kobe. Kobe’s dominating performance against the WC in 2008 was better than Dirk’s performance against the WC in 2011. And if LeBron didn’t choke, Dirk wouldn’t win the series just like Kobe didn’t against the Celtics in 2008.

I had a change of heart.
3. 2008 Kobe
I’m not deleting that Nowitzki part to share my thought of train. My 3rd ballot vote goes to 2008 Kobe.

[E-Balla]

1. 83 Moses Malone - The short version is that Moses was the best player in the league, on an historically great team, with great +/- estimates, and a gamebreaking ability on the offensive boards (averaged 6.5 offensive rebounds a game from 79 to 83). The gap between him and Curry who has that same argument (replace rebounding with 3 point shooting) is that outside of that one amazing ability Moses was still well above average at everything else. His jumper, defense (in 83 at least), and post game was already solid. His one weakness was his weak passing ability but it didn't hinder his chance to lead great or mediocre teams so I don't know how much it concerns me.

2. 17 Russell Westbrook - I'm on record since 2017 saying next to 09 LeBron this is the best season I've seen since I've watched basketball religiously. The short version here is that he averaged a 30 point triple double, made 200 three pointers, was the most clutch player ever (sidebar but this is one of my favorite posts in RealGM history, and it perfectly encapsulates exactly how clutch he was), and averaged 37/12/11 in the playoffs while destroying Houston, only losing because his team was the worst team I've ever seen in the playoffs without him on the floor. Unlike many here he had to also overcome horrible fitting teammates (they had the worst 3 point percentage in the league outside of him) and the worst coach in the league.

3. 82 Moses Malone - Spoilered my original vote. New vote is 82 Moses. At first I was thinking his defense was too bad to place this highly especially with the loss in the 1st round but on second thought it's his best offensive season and the season where he did the most lifting for his team. I still think it pales compared to the carry job Wade did in 09 and Westbrook did in 17 but it's pretty damn good.

[No-more-rings]

Coming from the previous thread;
1. 1983 Moses Malone
2. 1993 Charles Barkley
3. 2008 Kobe Bryant

1. 1983 Moses Malone
Well, it’s too hard to pick a single season for Moses from 1980-81 to 1982-83. Three great choices... But I’m gonna go with the safest choice. Dominant on every level. According to my own calculations (based on box score numbers though), Moses was on par with many goat level legends such as MJ, Bird, Magic, LeBron regarding performance on a loaded team. Playing on a loaded team, and benefiting from it, is not a con for Moses because he performed as well as anybody.

2. 1993 Charles Barkley
Natural scorer and rebounder and it wasn’t like he didn’t pay attention on defense in this particular season. That WCF performance was something to behold. The Sonics were 5th in ppg allowed and 2nd drtg (also, despite the W numbers, they led the league in SRS) and that 44/24 game 7 performance is one of the best ever game 7 performances. Also, despite losing in 6, the Suns didn’t get outscored by the Bulls in the NBA Finals. That was the level of Chuck elevating the team. I’m particularly big on this because there are team performances winning the series despite not outscoring the opponent but those series are usually decided in the last game, either game 5 or game 7. Not in this case.

3. 2011 Nowitzki
Well, I argued I consider 2006 as Nowitzki’s peak and the last conversation swayed me a little bit. But the thing changed my pick was Dirk blew one big lead in a series, and was very near to blow another one. I watched some of the highlights of SAS-DAL series and Dirk was on the verge of blowing a 3-1 lead if it wasn’t for Manu’s one idiotic single play. Realising that made me go for 2011 as Dirk’s peak. Even though I’m still considering 2008 Kobe. Kobe’s dominating performance against the WC in 2008 was better than Dirk’s performance against the WC in 2011. And if LeBron didn’t choke, Dirk wouldn’t win the series just like Kobe didn’t against the Celtics in 2008.

I had a change of heart.
3. 2008 Kobe
I’m not deleting that Nowitzki part to share my thought of train. My 3rd ballot vote goes to 2008 Kobe.

Your Kobe vote probably won't be counted since you didn't provide reasoning.

[No-more-rings]

I'm glad that Drob is finally in. Not because I'm a fan or something, but because he was controversial and there was way too much discussion around him and not enough with other players.

1. 2006 Kobe- Reasons stated already, efficient high volume scoring machine, with decent enough playmaking to anchor a top 10 offense with relatively poor support. 06 Kobe would give you all that 08/09 could and possibly more.

2. 90 Pat Ewing- Highly efficient volume scorer and defensive anchor, took it to the Celtics in the 1st round dropping 31.6 ppg/59.7 ts%, and won in 5 who appeared to would’ve been favored over them that year, still managed 27 ppg/56 ts% against the eventual champion and very strong defense Pistons. Idk, maybe this is a bit high for Ewing but i do think he has a solid case for top 20 peak.

3. 06 Dirk- I'm sticking by the belief that little or few would have 2011 over this year, if you flipped the results. It's a hindsight type of thing. Anyway, i don't know how much explanation Dirk needs, he had a great playoff run and was super close to a championship with a good but not excellent supporting cast. His cast was worse than the 2011 squad, yet had comparable results. I almost went with one of 08/09 Kobe, i think you can pick either one.

Up next after these players, i'll be looking at Leonard, Harden, Barkley, Moses, KD and Giannis.

[liamliam1234]

Well, that is definitely the most disappointing result thus far (although expected). Felt like by the end everyone was relatively willing to acknowledge Robinson was straight up not that good (for a top forty all-time player) in the postseason, but I guess there is simply no denying his nearly unparalleled regular season excellence. I hope the same charity is extended to Nash in a few votes, but considering he lacks flashy boxscore numbers, somehow I do not have faith that it will. Generally speaking, I have not seen many examples of people seriously changing their votes from their initial rankings. And I am not saying I really have either, apart from Bill Walton, but it is something which should be happening more as we move away from the clearer peak players.

Anyway...

1. 2008 Kobe
With Wade and West in, think Ardee’s post is fully applicable as a leading argument. Scored well and efficiently, had strong impact metrics, acted as a true leader, was entering his peak passing years, performed incredibly well in the conference playoffs, and made a still flawed and adapting team look much better than it actually was. Finals is a blemish, but buy notion that 2009 only looked better because the team was meshing well. Also, we are mostly past the point of being able to seek those types of top-to-bottom brilliant playoff runs, unless we want to get really old-school.

2. 2009 Kobe
Strep’s numbers may be a bit off, but his broader point stands. Impressive boxscore year, excellent playoffs across the board, laudable leadership... More well-rounded than 2006, and more clearly near the top of the league. A lot of the team metrics for both years feel heavily dependent on him directly, and that also speaks volumes.

3. 2011 Dirk
Only Curry could be said to have ever matched Dirk’s combination of shooting and off-ball impact, and Dirk is in a league of his own as a big man. Dirk was also a player who consistently raised his performance in the playoffs. In 2011 Dirk led the league in RAPM and led the Mavericks to their best healthy SRS. In the postseason he then had an incredible individual run through a profoundly difficult western conference, with his Finals decline being comparable to Kobe’s decline against the Celtics. This was the year he put it all together and achieved an all-time title reputation by beating a series of teams with multiple all-stars while having no all-star teammates of his own.

[Odinn21]

Coming from the previous thread;
1. 1983 Moses Malone
2. 1993 Charles Barkley
3. 2008 Kobe Bryant

1. 1983 Moses Malone
Well, it’s too hard to pick a single season for Moses from 1980-81 to 1982-83. Three great choices... But I’m gonna go with the safest choice. Dominant on every level. According to my own calculations (based on box score numbers though), Moses was on par with many goat level legends such as MJ, Bird, Magic, LeBron regarding performance on a loaded team. Playing on a loaded team, and benefiting from it, is not a con for Moses because he performed as well as anybody.

2. 1993 Charles Barkley
Natural scorer and rebounder and it wasn’t like he didn’t pay attention on defense in this particular season. That WCF performance was something to behold. The Sonics were 5th in ppg allowed and 2nd drtg (also, despite the W numbers, they led the league in SRS) and that 44/24 game 7 performance is one of the best ever game 7 performances. Also, despite losing in 6, the Suns didn’t get outscored by the Bulls in the NBA Finals. That was the level of Chuck elevating the team. I’m particularly big on this because there are team performances winning the series despite not outscoring the opponent but those series are usually decided in the last game, either game 5 or game 7. Not in this case.

3. 2011 Nowitzki
Well, I argued I consider 2006 as Nowitzki’s peak and the last conversation swayed me a little bit. But the thing changed my pick was Dirk blew one big lead in a series, and was very near to blow another one. I watched some of the highlights of SAS-DAL series and Dirk was on the verge of blowing a 3-1 lead if it wasn’t for Manu’s one idiotic single play. Realising that made me go for 2011 as Dirk’s peak. Even though I’m still considering 2008 Kobe. Kobe’s dominating performance against the WC in 2008 was better than Dirk’s performance against the WC in 2011. And if LeBron didn’t choke, Dirk wouldn’t win the series just like Kobe didn’t against the Celtics in 2008.

I had a change of heart.
3. 2008 Kobe
I’m not deleting that Nowitzki part to share my thought of train. My 3rd ballot vote goes to 2008 Kobe.

Your Kobe vote probably won't be counted since you didn't provide reasoning.

How’s that I didn’t provide reasoning?..

[E-Balla]

Coming from the previous thread;
1. 1983 Moses Malone
2. 1993 Charles Barkley
3. 2008 Kobe Bryant

Your Kobe vote probably won't be counted since you didn't provide reasoning.

How’s that I didn’t provide reasoning?..

You have to provide reasoning in the post where the vote is made, even if it's just a sentence.

[Odinn21]

Your Kobe vote probably won't be counted since you didn't provide reasoning.

How’s that I didn’t provide reasoning?..

You have to provide reasoning in the post where the vote is made, even if it's just a sentence.

Me quoting myself isn’t shown on your screens? What’s going on in here? For real.

He said I didn’t provide any reasoning for picking Kobe which is not true. I was between Kobe and Dirk and while I was writing, I had a change of heart. And I stated my reasons to pick Kobe over Dirk.

Then you’re saying I completely didn’t provide any reasoning.
viewtopic.php?p=78256608#p78256608
Is there an issue with my browser?

[liamliam1234]

He is saying you do not actually explain why you voted for that Kobe year. I think you could make it clearer by striking through the Dirk portion and just repeating “Kobe’s dominating performance against the WC in 2008 was better than Dirk’s performance against the WC in 2011” in the Kobe portion. Which is not much of an explanation, but it does meet the sentence requirement.

[Odinn21]

I guess when you have 2 candidates for a spot and making comparison between the two, then saying one’s better is not enough of a reasoning.

That exact vote got counted in the previous thread because it’s so obvious and we’re beating a dead horse here.

Next time I’ll delete a part that can cause confusion like this, instead of copy/paste’ing the vote in the previous thread. OK.

[penbeast0]

Getting a lot tougher and I'm not doing as much research as I would like to but, reading others posts here and using my own personal prejudices . . .

Dirk 11 -- wasn't a huge Dirk fan before this but he really stepped it up
Mikan 49 -- very iffy vote. Yes, he was easily the most dominant but the competition at this point in the NBA's history takes a massive hit. Almost voted Connie Hawkins 68 over him.
Moses 81 -- 83 is sexier since he won a title but he was a one man wrecking crew in 81 and his team needed his scoring more and his passing less which helps him.

[E-Balla]

Getting a lot tougher and I'm not doing as much research as I would like to but, reading others posts here and using my own personal prejudices . . .

Dirk 11 -- wasn't a huge Dirk fan before this but he really stepped it up
Mikan 49 -- very iffy vote. Yes, he was easily the most dominant but the competition at this point in the NBA's history takes a massive hit. Almost voted Connie Hawkins 68 over him.
Moses 81 -- 83 is sexier since he won a title but he was a one man wrecking crew in 81 and his team needed his scoring more and his passing less which helps him.

I have a question on Mikan, why now? I know I'm planning to vote Mikan but that's down the line at around 30 after the championship level guys of the shot clock era are in.

[penbeast0]

Didnt have a strong 3rd that I thought was that dominant. Mikan, for all of his weak era, was that dominant from what I've been able to learn.

[HHera187]

N.1 STEVE NASH 2005
One of the best offensive season of all time, no doubt. Some advanced stats of his unbelievable season:
13 Box Creation / +7.7 rTS% / 9.5 passer rating
A goat level combination of scoring and playmaking. Amazing playoffs run, take a look at his WCF VS San Antonio defense.

N.2 KOBE BRYANT 2008
Probably the most balanced season of his career, especially with Pau on the team. His scoring was solid and resilient (57.6 TS in regular season, 57.7 in postseason).

N.3 KOBE BRYANT 2006
One of the most impressive scoring season of all time, with bad Spacing and high level usage: 34.2 pts per 75 with +2.2 rTS%. Despite the loss he was amazing Vs Phoenix in postseason.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using RealGM mobile app

[mdonnelly1989]

Rewind this 10 years I bet it looks significantly different, aside from obv Curry

[Odinn21]

Rewind this 10 years I bet it looks significantly different, aside from obv Curry

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1404723

That was 4 years ago. Sure some names will get in and force some others to get dropped. But your suggestion has no basis.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Hallelujah- D Rob finally made it! If he fell out of the top 20 I may have permanently shunned the PC board (despite generally having a high opinion of it).

I think I'd go 83 Moses, 11 Dirk, and 93 Barkley in that order. I don't have arguments to offer at this time but that may change before the vote is tallied.

[liamliam1234]

Hallelujah- D Rob finally made it! If he fell out of the top 20 I may have permanently shunned the PC board (despite generally having a high opinion of it).

I think I'd go 83 Moses, 11 Dirk, and 93 Barkley in that order. I don't have arguments to offer at this time but that may change before the vote is tallied.

My hope is that when this is done again in like five years the regular season nostalgia will have worn off even more and we will be better able to acknowledge he is not the type of playoff performer worth a top twenty (maybe even top twenty-five) peak spot.

[E-Balla]

N.1 STEVE NASH 2005
One of the best offensive season of all time, no doubt. Some advanced stats of his unbelievable season:
13 Box Creation / +7.7 rTS% / 9.5 passer rating
A goat level combination of scoring and playmaking. Amazing playoffs run, take a look at his WCF VS San Antonio defense.

N.2 KOBE BRYANT 2008
Probably the most balanced season of his career, especially with Pau on the team. His scoring was solid and resilient (57.6 TS in regular season, 57.7 in postseason).

N.3 KOBE BRYANT 2006
One of the most impressive scoring season of all time, with bad Spacing and high level usage: 34.2 pts per 75 with +2.2 rTS%. Despite the loss he was amazing Vs Phoenix in postseason.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using RealGM mobile app

What's the argument for Nash > Kobe? His offense is amazing, and clearly better than Kobe, but they were both in the league peaking around the same time (I'd say 06 and 07 are both Nash and Kobe's best seasons) and Kobe was better by basically all metrics.

And also why 05 Nash? Don't you think he was better in 06 and 07, because his raw numbers and +/- numbers all shot upward.