Better player in 2015: Chris Paul vs Harden

[No-more-rings]

Interestingly, Harden finished one spot ahead in the POY voting thing.

[limbo]

Tough one... Advance stats are close, RPM gives Harden slight edge, win total even, CP3 led 1st ranked offense while having an average defensive cast. Harden led the 12th ranked offense, but had way less talent offensively to play with but more talent defensively. PER 100 +/- tells us there was a huge gulf in terms of Clippers starters and bench. Clippers starting unit might have been the best in the league, but there's plenty of talent there to just put all the credit towards Paul, although he easily deserves the most of it. Harden had to carry a lot of offensively inept players, but the same players carried him on defense.

This was also the season when they met in the playoffs and the Rockets won. CP3 missed two games at the start, but the Clippers still managed to steal a game away. Then LAC blows Houston out two games in a row at home taking a 3-1 lead and here's where the series should've been over, but some comically weird things started happening, like Houston's role players severely over performing (Josh Smith taking over games with Howard, Corey Brewer +32 in one of those games...) and Redick, Crawford, Rivers and Barnes bricking LAC out of games.

Like i said, it is very close, i won't disagree with taking one over the other, but i'm gonna go with Harden ultimately. Won the H2H in the playoffs (even though i feel the outcome was decided by factors outside Harden and CP3) and then put up a good series vs. the Warriors. And even though he had a solid defensive cast, i'm impressed by anyone who's able to take a team to the WCF with post prime Dwight, Josh Smith, Corey Brewer and 37-year old Jason Terry as key players...

So yeah, Harden... with CP3 right behind him in year rankings. POY voting at that time seems to concur.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Prime Harden goes over every PG of all time besides Magic Johnson. Paul gets injured in big moments too much and Harden is about twice the scorer he is. Teams don't actually game plan to stop Paul's scoring, he's just more of a sneaky type scorer. Harden is also a great playmaker in his own right. Paul is too small to make as much of an impact on defense as some people think. Overall, Harden wins comfortably.

[limbo]

The playmaking difference isn't rooted so much in ability but rather Harden's proclivity to turn the ball over at a historically rate, while Paul is at the completely opposite end of this spectrum. Makes a notable difference in games.

We can argue about how effective Paul is defensively, but i think we can both agree that you can count on him giving about as close as maximum effort on that end as he's capable of. He competes hard and punches above his weight/size class, while Harden is more prone to half or even full arse-ing possessions so he can save up energy for offense.

Idk, i think prime for prime, both can be put in the same tier, which is up there with the best players of all-time. Both probably should've had a ring by now if not for injuries and playing with some questionable talent, also competing against some insanely good teams along the way.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

The playmaking difference isn't rooted so much in ability but rather Harden's proclivity to turn the ball over at a historically rate, while Paul is at the completely opposite end of this spectrum. Makes a notable difference in games.

We can argue about how effective Paul is defensively, but i think we can both agree that you can count on him giving about as close as maximum effort on that end as he's capable of. He competes hard and punches above his weight/size class, while Harden is more prone to half or even full arse-ing possessions so he can save up energy for offense.

Idk, i think prime for prime, both can be put in the same tier, which is up there with the best players of all-time. Both probably should've had a ring by now if not for injuries and playing with some questionable talent, also competing against some insanely good teams along the way.

How much is Harden's turnovers off the big scoring load he's carrying and how much are off his playmaking? Chris Paul has never even been a 1st option scorer on his team.

[70sFan]

The playmaking difference isn't rooted so much in ability but rather Harden's proclivity to turn the ball over at a historically rate, while Paul is at the completely opposite end of this spectrum. Makes a notable difference in games.

We can argue about how effective Paul is defensively, but i think we can both agree that you can count on him giving about as close as maximum effort on that end as he's capable of. He competes hard and punches above his weight/size class, while Harden is more prone to half or even full arse-ing possessions so he can save up energy for offense.

Idk, i think prime for prime, both can be put in the same tier, which is up there with the best players of all-time. Both probably should've had a ring by now if not for injuries and playing with some questionable talent, also competing against some insanely good teams along the way.

How much is Harden's turnovers off the big scoring load he's carrying and how much are off his playmaking? Chris Paul has never even been a 1st option scorer on his team.

Did you forget 2008 and 2009?

[Sark]

Prime Harden goes over every PG of all time besides Magic Johnson. Paul gets injured in big moments too much and Harden is about twice the scorer he is. Teams don't actually game plan to stop Paul's scoring, he's just more of a sneaky type scorer. Harden is also a great playmaker in his own right. Paul is too small to make as much of an impact on defense as some people think. Overall, Harden wins comfortably.

[Dr Spaceman]

Better player I think is Paul. Reasonably close on offense but Paul has a significant edge on defense.

That said Harden had the better season given that Paul’s injury ended his team’s chances while Harden was healthy throughout. As the poll says “better player” though I’d vote for Paul.

[E-Balla]

Harden didn't miss 2 games against the Clippers and lose because of it so he had the better year but CP3 was the better player.

[bledredwine]

I can't stand either of these guys but Harden's a better player than Paul's ever been. In 2015, it's still Harden.

He's also had more success as batman than Paul ever has. Paul's teams were never a threat. No one in their right mind thought "Oh man, but Chris Paul's team might beat them all"

As mentioned before, Paul was only the 1st option (scorer) on his team for two years.

[Sublime187]

I can't stand either of these guys but Harden's a better player than Paul's ever been. In 2015, it's still Harden.

He's also had more success as batman than Paul ever has. Paul's teams were never a threat. No one in their right mind thought "Oh man, but Chris Paul's team might beat them all"

As mentioned before, Paul was only the 1st option (scorer) on his team for two years.

Is Batman your favourite superhero?

[limbo]

How much is Harden's turnovers off the big scoring load he's carrying and how much are off his playmaking? Chris Paul has never even been a 1st option scorer on his team.

I think the ridiculous load is definitely compounding the problem, yes, to what degree, i don't know exactly. The thing is, i was hesitant to put too much blame on Harden for not trusting guys with the ball in the beginning of his tenure with Houston, but in the last two seasons, he's had one of the best floor generals of all-time on his team in Paul to help take the pressure off him offensively, and Eric Gordon is not a bad option either, he's a guy that can call his number on offense without you needing to necessarily create open looks for him.

Coming into this season, the narrative is that CP3 declined and Harden needed to average 24.5 FGA and 36 ppg for Houston to have a chance of beating anyone. Now, Harden is going to be playing with a guy that can average 25 ppg, average 10 apg and average 10 rpg while he's at it, consistently, so there's no more excuses that Harden NEEDS to score or NEEDS to be the playmaker or NEEDS to do both. Also, we get to see how washed CP3 is on his own team. If he's still looking like an all-star, then there were some factors (outside injury) that prohibited him from fully exerting his impact with Houston last season.

If Harden comes out doing his thing, which is ''i'm going to play my game, and average over 30 ppg and close to 10 apg, and i'm not going to concern myself with much else'', then i think there's a problem with Harden. Not that you can't win championships in that way, you can, if you surround Harden with the right type of talent, but a huge mark of a great player for me is also being able to allow other talent on your team to play to their strengths. Harden's been able to do that with CP3 until they've fallen out.

[Dr Spaceman]

I can't stand either of these guys but Harden's a better player than Paul's ever been. In 2015, it's still Harden.

He's also had more success as batman than Paul ever has. Paul's teams were never a threat. No one in their right mind thought "Oh man, but Chris Paul's team might beat them all"

As mentioned before, Paul was only the 1st option (scorer) on his team for two years.

You are just flat wrong about this.

In 2014-15, 5 of 28 ESPN writers polled picked the Clippers to win the Western Conference.

http://www.espn.com/nba/notebook/_/page/west1415/2014-15-western-conference-champion-predictions

1 of 28 picked them to win the NBA title.

http://www.espn.com/nba/notebook/_/page/nba1415/2014-15-nba-champion-predictions?ex_cid=espnapi_public

[bledredwine]

I can't stand either of these guys but Harden's a better player than Paul's ever been. In 2015, it's still Harden.

He's also had more success as batman than Paul ever has. Paul's teams were never a threat. No one in their right mind thought "Oh man, but Chris Paul's team might beat them all"

As mentioned before, Paul was only the 1st option (scorer) on his team for two years.

You are just flat wrong about this.

In 2014-15, 5 of 28 ESPN writers polled picked the Clippers to win the Western Conference.

http://www.espn.com/nba/notebook/_/page/west1415/2014-15-western-conference-champion-predictions

1 of 28 picked them to win the NBA title.

http://www.espn.com/nba/notebook/_/page/nba1415/2014-15-nba-champion-predictions?ex_cid=espnapi_public

So you’re justification is that 1/6 of ESPN writers picked the Clippers to win the title? 1/6?

Once again, no one in their right mind.

So how did that pan out for them?

And I know that you’ll deny it, but Blake Griffin was considered the best player on that team anyway. At the very worst, they were equals. Harden is far away the best player in his team. He doesn’t need another Harden to compete.

And we’ve already been down the rabbit hole of chokes. There’s no reason to revisit that. And I literally called choked for both players years ago. In that regard, I’ve been right about both players and many have guessed wrong.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

The playmaking difference isn't rooted so much in ability but rather Harden's proclivity to turn the ball over at a historically rate, while Paul is at the completely opposite end of this spectrum. Makes a notable difference in games.

We can argue about how effective Paul is defensively, but i think we can both agree that you can count on him giving about as close as maximum effort on that end as he's capable of. He competes hard and punches above his weight/size class, while Harden is more prone to half or even full arse-ing possessions so he can save up energy for offense.

Idk, i think prime for prime, both can be put in the same tier, which is up there with the best players of all-time. Both probably should've had a ring by now if not for injuries and playing with some questionable talent, also competing against some insanely good teams along the way.

How much is Harden's turnovers off the big scoring load he's carrying and how much are off his playmaking? Chris Paul has never even been a 1st option scorer on his team.

Did you forget 2008 and 2009?

David West was the go 2 scorer. Paul is just a sneaky 2nd option scorer.

[70sFan]

How much is Harden's turnovers off the big scoring load he's carrying and how much are off his playmaking? Chris Paul has never even been a 1st option scorer on his team.

Did you forget 2008 and 2009?

David West was the go 2 scorer. Paul is just a sneaky 2nd option scorer.

So why did he average more points per game, while also being their offensive anchor and main playmaker?

[Lost92Bricks]

Better player I think is Paul. Reasonably close on offense but Paul has a significant edge on defense.

That said Harden had the better season given that Paul’s injury ended his team’s chances while Harden was healthy throughout. As the poll says “better player” though I’d vote for Paul.

Paul's injury did not end his team's chance. They went up 3-1 on the Rockets. They just choked.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Did you forget 2008 and 2009?

David West was the go 2 scorer. Paul is just a sneaky 2nd option scorer.

So why did he average more points per game, while also being their offensive anchor and main playmaker?

Paul is a crafty scorer but he's not a go 2 guy scorer who can create his shot whenever he wants, he's a john stockton level scorer. West can create a shot whenever he wants and I don't think Paul can do that due to his size. Neither guys are legit 1st option guys but West is closer when you pair him up with Paul's passing.

[liamliam1234]

Total nonsense to compare Chris Paul to Stockton as a scorer. Paul’s worst scoring years are equivalent to Stockton’s absolute best, and their scoring disparity was even larger in the playoffs (with Paul literally scoring fifty percent more per game).

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Total nonsense to compare Chris Paul to Stockton as a scorer. Paul’s worst scoring years are equivalent to Stockton’s absolute best, and their scoring disparity was even larger in the playoffs (with Paul literally scoring fifty percent more per game).

Pace, better defensive era, playing with Karl Malone is something you need to consider here.