RealGM All-Time Greatest NBA/ABA Franchises Ranking - #15

[trex_8063]

1. Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers
2. Boston Celtics
3. Dallas Chaparrals, San Antonio Spurs
4. Chicago Bulls
5. Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers
6. Philly/SF/Golden State Warriors
7. Miami Heat
8. Fort Wayne/Detroit Pistons
9. Houston Rockets
10. New York Knicks
11. Indiana Pacers
12. Seattle Supersonics/OKC Thunder
13. Portland Trailblazers
14. New Orleans/Utah Jazz

.....

26. Vancouver/Memphis Grizzlies
27. New Orleans Hornets/Pelicans
28. Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets
29. Buffalo Braves/(San Diego)/Los Angeles Clippers
30. Minnesota Timberwolves

[penbeast0]

My criteria is how would it feel to have been a fan from the beginning of it all, the pre-LeBron Cavs were a franchise I never could stand outside of the Mark Price/Brad Daugherty years. The LeBron years were great but not great enough for me to have over the Suns or Mavs.

The Hawks are another team where the racist owner puts me off (though at least he was during the 1950s. This is the man who dealt away Bill Russell because he didn't think he could market a black superstar. Imagine a team with Pettit AND Russell (though no Hagan).

So it comes down to the Suns or the Mavs. The Suns are one of those teams that is consistently contending for the playoffs going back to Neil Walk days (rough coin flip . . . if they won it they got Kareem Abdul Jabbar!). They have had some exciting teams, most particularly the SSOL Nash/Marion/STAT years. More than any other franchise, they have always had good offenses and weak defenses (not based on fact, just perception).

The Mavs had the Derek Harper/Rolando Blackman/Mark Aquirre years and the Dirk years, winning a title in the Dirk years which is more than the Suns ever did. On the other hand, they had a lot more lows than the Suns where I would have been depressed as a fan.

Vote: PHOENIX SUNS

[Fadeaway_J]

Phoenix Suns for me too. This would be a lot clearer without the horrendous 2010s run, but they've had a lot of very good teams with different cores, including a few that were legitimately championship calibre. Dallas didn't do quite enough in their non-contending years to take this spot.

[trex_8063]

rs Win%
Suns - .529
Bucks - .515
Nuggets - .501 (.490 in NBA, .555 in ABA)
Mavericks - .499
Hawks - .495
Cavs - .465

% of Seasons in the Playoffs
Hawks - .657
Nuggets - .654 (.581 in NBA, 1.000 in ABA)
Bucks - .608
Suns - .569
Mavericks - .538
Cavs - .449

% of Seasons going as far as Conference Finals
Hawks - .186
Suns - .176
Bucks - .176
Cavs - .163
Nuggets - .115 (.070 in NBA, .333 in ABA)
Mavericks - .103

Playoff Series Win%
Cavs - .543
Suns - .473
Mavericks - .459
Bucks - .400
Hawks - .366
Nuggets - .277 (.286 in NBA, .250 in ABA)

% of Seasons going to Finals
Cavs - .102
Hawks - .057
Mavericks - .051
Suns - .039
Bucks - .039
Nuggets - .019 (n/a in NBA, .111 in ABA)

% of Seasons Winning Title
Mavericks - .026
Cavs - .0204
Bucks - .0196
Hawks - .014
Suns - n/a
Nuggets - n/a

[trex_8063]

I came into this thread thinking I'd go with the Cavs for this round; but now I'm wondering if their one title and little better playoff series win% (in a more limited number of playoff appearances) is enough to offset the vastly superior rs win% and consistency in making it to the playoffs (as well as slightly better record of making deep playoff runs ["deep" = CF or further]) we see for the Suns. I'm not sure it is.

Bucks vs Cavs is an interesting comp, too. Bucks have a title as well (even if it was pre-merger), along with a vastly superior consistency in reaching the playoffs and slightly better record of deep runs.

So I'm now actually thinking more between the Suns and the Bucks.....

The Suns have just a little better rs win% and better playoff series record, but the Bucks have a better proportion of years making the playoffs, with the exact same proportion of years making it as far as the CF, and the same proportion going to the finals.......but whereas the Suns have never won a title, the Bucks have.

Eesh.....these two (three) teams are really close imo.


I'm gonna vote Milwaukee Bucks by the narrowest of edges. EDIT: though honestly the Suns or Cavs look like good picks too; and I still think the Hawks (based on longer-view historical significance) would be an OK pick, too.

[trex_8063]

Sorry I've been a bit absent itt till now (holiday stuff).
Vote is:

Suns - 2
Bucks - 1


Although it's been >48 hours, I'm going to leave this one open just a little longer (till tonight) to see if we can get a little better turnout.

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[penbeast0]

And here I was thinking the Mavs were the likely favorites here.

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Dallas Mavericks

Changing my pick from Cavs to them. Mavs had a 11 year run of 50 W seasons, and overall 15 years of stablility with Dirk, in addition to the title and finals. Both teams had a little bit of success in the 80s or 90s. Ultimately I’ll take the Mavs having a bit more stability than the Cavs making the three extra finals, since the Cavs had some teams that got swept in the finals that are arguably worse than some WCF Mavs teams

[trex_8063]

Calling it for Phoenix.