Better defender: Michael Jordan vs Tim Duncan

[70sFan]

After long debate in two separated threads, I decided to create new one. Please, no trolling posts, I want to keep it clean.

[bledredwine]

I’m sorry but must be blunt here. This is probably the most inaccurate way that you can settle our dispute.

Of course everyone here will vote Duncan. 90% of this fan base loves Lebron or modern players aka will vote against Jordan regardless. This was made obvious in the midrange thread and by all of the Jordan myths around here, like that he can’t play help defense. I’d like to keep it between two players, but you’ll only get a realistic poll elsewhere.

The jordan Lebron giannis thread should have made that apparent. You know before creating this how biased the PC forum is.

If you asked players this? You’d be surprised.

[70sFan]

You think that this will be remotely realistic?

Of course everyone here will vote Duncan. 90% of this fan base loves Lebron or modern players. I’d like to keep it between two players, but you’ll only get a realistic poll elsewhere.

The jordan Lebron giannis thread should have made that apparent.

So everyone is biased forward modern players, but nobody is biased forward 1990s? Besides, Duncan is not modern player and he never had large fanbase like James, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[70sFan]

I will try to make long post breaking down this topic, but I want you to answer me - which Jordan games do you recommand to re-watch to focus on his best defensive performances?

[PaulieWal]

Don't really see what the argument possibly could be to have MJ over Duncan as a defender.

[No-more-rings]

You're better than this.

[bledredwine]

Try googling greatest defenders ever.

You’ll see what non realgm PC forum opinion is compared to those elsewhere. It’s similar to how different the GOAT debate is.

So why are you ok with this but disregard DPOY voting?

[70sFan]

You're better than this.

I hope to see some convincing arguments for Jordan, but honestly I don't believe I will.

[AdagioPace]

"If Jordan was taller, longer.....etc...etc.."
This is the only argument
Basically, if he was not Jordan, but ...Arnold McKenzie or Josh Williams

[Colbinii]

I think this is clearly Jordan.

He has a DPOY award and Charles Barkley said so as well.

[PaulieWal]

I think this is clearly Jordan.

He has a DPOY award and Charles Barkley said so as well.

Please don't do that. Not needed.

Just as an FYI to everyone in this thread. Stay civil and report posts you think are out of bounds.

[70sFan]

I get that it was a troll post, but I'm not even sure if Barkley would say that Jordan was better defensively than Duncan.

[Colbinii]

I think this is clearly Jordan.

He has a DPOY award and Charles Barkley said so as well.

Please don't do that. Not needed.

Just as an FYI to everyone in this thread. Stay civil and report posts you think are out of bounds.

This is the exact evidence someone uses in most of their posts.

[Owly]

Try googling greatest defenders ever.

You’ll see what non realgm PC forum opinion is compared to those elsewhere. It’s similar to how different the GOAT debate is.

I did this out of curiosity. This is what I got on page one:

"Soccer defenders" Maldini (P.), Cannavaro (F.), Cafu, Puyol, Roberto Carlos ...

Lots of football/soccer references.
Two quotes from google books fiction books.
One google book quote from college gridiron/American football.
One google book quote from what I think is Gaelic football.

Page 2 Has a Slam article about Payton, an article about Melton referring to Tony Allen, a blog about "top gifts" and a Scottie Pippen jersey among more mostly football/soccer sites.

I'm not, if honest, entirely convinced this is the best way to research it.

[70sFan]

I think this is clearly Jordan.

He has a DPOY award and Charles Barkley said so as well.

Please don't do that. Not needed.

Just as an FYI to everyone in this thread. Stay civil and report posts you think are out of bounds.

This is the exact evidence someone uses in most of their posts.

But you are better than that

[Mavericksfan]

I am beyond intrigued what kind of argument can be made for Jordan.

[Ron Swanson]

Well, this is obviously Duncan because even *insert whoever is your GOAT perimeter defender* won't stack up to the 2nd-3rd tier of ATG defensive bigs (Gobert, Chandler, Mutombo, etc.), let alone a 1st tier guy like Duncan. Defensive impact of bigs always trumps defensive impact of non-bigs. A better argument would be if the defensive gap between Duncan and his contemporaries (KG, D-Rob, Shaq) is greater than Jordan and his contemporaries (Moncrief, Cooper, Artest, Kawhi). But then again, this seems like a troll thread and I don't quite understand this contrarian obsession with trying to constantly lump all MJ supporters into the same camp just because a vocal minority happens to have outlandish opinions on him.

[70sFan]

Well, this is obviously Duncan because even *insert whoever is your GOAT perimeter defender* won't stack up to the 2nd-3rd tier of ATG defensive bigs (Gobert, Chandler, Mutombo, etc.), let alone a 1st tier guy like Duncan. Defensive impact of bigs always trumps defensive impact of non-bigs. A better argument would be if the defensive gap between Duncan and his contemporaries (KG, D-Rob, Shaq) is greater than Jordan and his contemporaries (Moncrief, Cooper, Artest, Kawhi). But then again, this seems like a troll thread and I don't quite understand this contrarian obsession with trying to constantly lump all MJ supporters into the same camp just because a vocal minority happens to have outlandish opinions on him.

It's not a troll thread, it came from different debate. I was accused of being biased because I took Duncan over Jordan. So I decided to see if anybody else disagree with me, I'd like to hear any arguments against my statement (outside of DPOY award, which is not an argument by itself).

[Ron Swanson]

Well, this is obviously Duncan because even *insert whoever is your GOAT perimeter defender* won't stack up to the 2nd-3rd tier of ATG defensive bigs (Gobert, Chandler, Mutombo, etc.), let alone a 1st tier guy like Duncan. Defensive impact of bigs always trumps defensive impact of non-bigs. A better argument would be if the defensive gap between Duncan and his contemporaries (KG, D-Rob, Shaq) is greater than Jordan and his contemporaries (Moncrief, Cooper, Artest, Kawhi). But then again, this seems like a troll thread and I don't quite understand this contrarian obsession with trying to constantly lump all MJ supporters into the same camp just because a vocal minority happens to have outlandish opinions on him.

It's not a troll thread, it came from different debate. I was accused of being biased because I took Duncan over Jordan. So I decided to see if anybody else disagree with me, I'd like to hear any arguments against my statement (outside of DPOY award, which is not an argument by itself).

If we're arguing "impact" then Jordan or any other wing defender in NBA history has none. Zero. If we're arguing simply defensive ability relative to their position, then sure, it's an interesting debate. But people often can't disassociate the two, and usually just look at defense as being binary, so unless that kind of context is included, I'm guessing this is just gonna end up being a lot of snarky comments from people mocking "Jordan stans" and such. Good luck though.

[RCM88x]

Please don't do that. Not needed.

Just as an FYI to everyone in this thread. Stay civil and report posts you think are out of bounds.

This is the exact evidence someone uses in most of their posts.

But you are better than that

Why are we holding some members to different standards than others then?

If one member posts something and its considered trolling while that same thing can be posted by another and its viewed as an honest argument, how is that fair? Post content should be viewed independent of the poster, imo.