Why is Tony Parker not considered one of the great PG's?

Lost92Bricks · Post #1 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:25 am

He was an elite PG in his prime. At one point he was arguably the best. When Duncan started declining, he became the Spurs' best offensive player. He is maybe the best finisher around the basket of any PG ever, he was averaging nearly 8 assists per game in his prime years.

I was reading the Isiah Thomas thread and I found it weird that someone with his accolades (4 championships and Finals MVP) was never brought up.

CIN-C-STAR · Post #2 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:35 am

Never a plus defender and not an outside shooter.
He probably is an underrated star you're right, but his skills are not the kind that have added value in a more modern game, nor are they going to be sufficient to be the best player on a title team even in earlier eras.

J___Av · Post #3 » by **J___Av** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:36 am

There was never a time he was arguably the best PG

Lost92Bricks · Post #4 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:42 am

CIN-C-STAR wrote:Never a plus defender and not an outside shooter.
He probably is an underrated star you're right, but his skills are not the kind that have added value in a more modern game, nor are they going to be sufficient to be the best player on a title team even in earlier eras.

Westbrook is not an outside shooter or plus defender and he is still one of the best PG's right now.

J___Av wrote:There was never a time he was arguably the best PG

When the Spurs were playing Miami in the finals. Around 2012-2013.

CIN-C-STAR · Post #5 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:42 am

J___Av wrote:There was never a time he was arguably the best PG

There was, though he was never in the best-player-in-the-league conversation.

J___Av · Post #6 » by **J___Av** » Sat May 2, 2020 6:47 am

CIN-C-STAR wrote:
J___Av wrote:There was never a time he was arguably the best PG

At his position there was.
Though he was never quite the best player in the league.

Well technically you can argue I would be the best PG in the NBA. Its a terrible argument though. There is not a GM in the NBA that would have taken Parker over Chris Paul around 2012-2013

Lost92Bricks · Post #7 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:09 am

J___Av wrote: Well technically you can argue I would be the best PG in the NBA. Its a terrible argument though. There is not a GM in the NBA that would have taken Parker over Chris Paul around 2012-2013

Not true. I am a CP3 fan. People were definitely taking Parker over him. Especially since he couldn't get past the Spurs. Parker was competing for championships and he was losing every year.

Post #8 » by **bondom34** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:16 am

He had all the intangibles, was a winner, and a finals MVP.

TheUroborosWorm · Post #9 » by **TheUroborosWorm** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:25 am

The reason are he's french and kind of a dick... although i consider him "properly rated" as mostly everybody consider him an all time great (in 50-100 range) and a first ballot hof once he retires, he's just not popular (not even in france tbh) so he's not talked about, being undertalked is not akin to being underated imho.
Also the whole hitting on everyone's whoman while being married to who was then one of america's loved ones in Eva Longoria made him even more disliked in USA... so there is that.

GSP · Post #10 » by **GSP** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:36 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:He was an elite PG in his prime. At one point he was arguably the best. When Duncan started declining, he became the Spurs' best offensive player. He is maybe the best finisher around the basket of any PG ever, he was averaging nearly 8 assists per game in his prime years.

Are u implying Duncan was the Spurs best offensive player from 05-11?

B/c he wasnt........That was Manu

blackcosmos · Post #11 » by **blackcosmos** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:48 am

he played with Duncan.

Pelly24 · Post #12 » by **Pelly24** » Sat May 2, 2020 7:49 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
J___Av wrote: Well technically you can argue I would be the best PG in the NBA. Its a terrible argument though. There is not a GM in the NBA that would have taken Parker over Chris Paul around 2012-2013

Not true. I am a CP3 fan. People were definitely taking Parker over him. Especially since he couldn't get past the Spurs. Parker was competing for championships and he was losing every year.

Tony Parker was great, but CP3 was better in nearly every quantifiable measure of dominance. Better scorer, better shooter, a few tiers better as a defender, better passer, better floor general, more impact, more clutch, etc. I wish CP3 could've been on those Spurs teams or any squad where he wouldn't have to be a wild volume scorer. He'd have more chips. But as it is, at their peaks CP3 was a consistent to 5 player, and realistically he was a top 10 player from 2007 to 2018. Now he's still proven to be a top 15ish player. His game has aged much better than Parker's. He's a way better player, and there's no way GMs couldn't see that.

JimmyFromNz · Post #13 » by **JimmyFromNz** » Sat May 2, 2020 8:16 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
J___Av wrote: Well technically you can argue I would be the best PG in the NBA. Its a terrible argument though. There is not a GM in the NBA that would have taken Parker over Chris Paul around 2012-2013

Not true. I am a CP3 fan. People were definitely taking Parker over him. Especially since he couldn't get past the Spurs. Parker was competing for championships and he was losing every year.

I'm fine with having Parker as #2 in the league during that small 2012-13 window.

Particularly as it coincided with the tail end of some other star point guards careers, a notable injury to one in particular, and Westbrook/Curry were only beginning to ascend.

I also think in revising those seasons Tony doesn't get nearly enough credit for driving that spurs core. It seems now when we look back, and through our eternal worshipping of all things Tim Duncan, we have undersold or forgotten the load Tony carried for him in those latter years, offensively and through leadership. I'm sure if people want to look up Pop's and Timmys thoughts on TP during those seasons I'm certain that they would reiterate that.

However, I find it very hard to recall or believe anyone outside of Texas was taking Tony over CP3 at any stage. I wonder who these people were?

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Sat May 2, 2020 8:40 am

Parker is probably top 20-25 PG ever to me and he has tremendous international career. I really like his style but he was never a superstar. He was good at what he did (excellent finisher, great in transition, good but not special passer) but quite limited (mediocre defender, limited outside shooter, not a full-time playmaker). Sometimes he gets a bit too much credit for Spurs wins, but overall I think he's properly rated.

Young gun 6 · Post #15 » by **Young gun 6** » Sat May 2, 2020 8:51 am

Don’t think he’s ever been a top 2 PG in the league in any single season.

Also never made an All-NBA First Team which most of the top players at each position would have.

Similar to Manu. 4 titles and a really good player but isn’t in the same category as the top players at that position (Magic, Oscar, West (more a SG though), Stockton, Curry, Nash, Isiah, Kidd, CP3).

Young gun 6 · Post #16 » by **Young gun 6** » Sat May 2, 2020 8:54 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
J___Av wrote: Well technically you can argue I would be the best PG in the NBA. Its a terrible argument though. There is not a GM in the NBA that would have taken Parker over Chris Paul around 2012-2013

Not true. I am a CP3 fan. People were definitely taking Parker over him. Especially since he couldn't get past the Spurs. Parker was competing for championships and he was losing every year.

CIN-C-STAR wrote:
J___Av wrote:There was never a time he was arguably the best PG

At his position there was.
Though he was never quite the best player in the league.

How many 1st All NBA teams did Parker make? There’s always been 2 spots open for guards to make it..

He’s never had a season where’s he’s been the best PG in the league or a top 5 player in the league either which all of the top guys at the position have had, most for more than 1-2 seasons as well.

Post #17 » by **-Sammy-** » Sat May 2, 2020 9:07 am

I think he's solidly top-15 all-time at his position, and a decent argument can be made for top-12. Top 10 is too high, but I don't think you can push him out of the top 15 for PGs.

He was the floor general for four title teams, and you can say whatever about how much that offense was run by-committee, but being the starting PG for four title teams is something. He wasn't just a starter-in-name, either; he was our leading scorer in seven different seasons, while routinely being among the league leaders in assists. Doing that for so many years on a perennial contender is no mean feat.

17 seasons with the same team; 6x AS, 4x All-NBA, FMVP; top-20 all-time in assists (and 52nd in points), top-10 all-time in playoff points (and top-20 in playoff assists)-- he's got the longevity, a great prime, the stats, the accolades, the rings-- there aren't 15 other PGs with that résumé.

Like Monta Ellis, Tony Parker have it all.

JimmyFromNz · Post #18 » by **JimmyFromNz** » Sat May 2, 2020 9:23 am

Young gun 6 wrote:Don’t think he’s ever been a top 2 PG in the league in any single season.

Also never made an All-NBA First Team which most of the top players at each position would have.

Similar to Manu. 4 titles and a really good player but isn’t in the same category as the top players at that position (Magic, Oscar, West (more a SG though), Stockton, Curry, Nash, Isiah, Kidd, CP3).

I dont disagree with your final conclusion there. But want to point out...

Tony made the All NBA 2nd team 3 years in a row, with CP3 the only point guard to make the first during that time.

The logic would follow he was certainly in the conversation for being a top 2 point guard during at least 1 or 2 of those seasons. As I've outlined in my above post, the circumstances were even ripe for him to be considered that.

Metallikid · Post #19 » by **Metallikid** » Sat May 2, 2020 9:28 am

What does considering Tony Parker as one of the greatest point guards of all-time mean?

Because I'm pretty sure he's in everybody's top 20 if not top 15.

Dutchball97 · Post #20 » by **Dutchball97** » Sat May 2, 2020 9:29 am

Probably the same reason why James Worthy isn't talked about among the top 5 SF of All-Time. Tony Parker was never really the best player on the team and the only time he had a case was when Duncan and Ginobili started declining before him while Kawhi just came into the league. I'd talk about Parker among the likes of Rajon Rondo or Maurice Cheeks.