Hawks forcing fans to choose sides. Not cool.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

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Totally, totally inappropriate given the intel we have at the moment on the incident. You can't know what the guy is going to pull out of that car window. If that's my dad, my brother, my son in that situation, I'm not thrilled if police training says, "Wait for him to turn around." I don't think it does.

Angers me that these people are so eager to get out ahead of a story and push a narrative that is divisive. George Floyd was one thing, this is another. And moreover, even as horrible an example of police brutality as the George Floyd incident was, based on additional video that has since become available, for all the presumption that it was somehow racially motivated, turns out it wasn't racially motivated after all (... if you saw that, and a lot of people evidently did not).

This lurch to divide people by media is immoral, it really is.

We can have intelligent and productive conversations about these issues, but they can't be driven by these knee-jerk emotional reactions. I've been engaged all summer with a group of Black friends and White friends via Facebook in just such a dialogue, and it's been that--intelligent and productive. I understand the issues as well as anyone else because my Black friends... people I know, love and respect... have been candid and have spoken about what they see, which in some cases is the same and in some cases is different from what TV cameras and online media offer.

Weighing whether the Hawks actually want police officers as fans, since they've went all-in to one side as they have. Weighing whether I should be a fan of an sports organization that takes that tack.

Irresponsible.

[Nathan2331]

Blake was within arms reach, they did not have to fire at him like that, especially with kids in the van. If you don't want to be in those kind of situations, don't become an officer. No excuse for taking someone's life like that.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

1) He's not dead.

2) We don't have all the facts is the point.

3) What facts we do have lean strongly to the side that the police reacted as they are trained to do; but that's beside the point. The point is we don't have all the facts at this point.

It's disgraceful for an organization of influence to get ahead of the story like this, and encourage division.

It's wrong. It's irresponsible. It's immature.

Who's running this organization?

[azuresou1]

I agree, this was very disappointing to see, especially because:

1) They were serving an arrest warrant
2) They had already tazed him multiple times to zero effect
3) It looks like he's holding a knife as he walks to the car
4) They were yelling at him to drop the knife
5) REPORTEDLY he claimed he was going to get his gun. This part is under dispute, so take with some salt
6) He was reaching into his car

Not every black man who gets shot is a martyr for a cause.

[saloonyk8]

It's hard to say you had to shoot someone in the back because your life was threatened.

[Jamaaliver]

This topic has the likelihood of becoming inflamed very easily.

I'm not a fan of locking threads, but tread lightly guys.

Better places to discuss are the Current Affairs Board or the Wizards Political Roundtable Thread.


The mods on this board have always given a lot of latitude...don't abuse it.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Well-taken, and I've said as much as I think is worth saying.

But adult to adult, respect for respect, I would still encourage you to give even more than "a lot" of latitude when some exec for the team itself is the one that pushed this on to the stage and asked their own fans to take a side against police.

[King Ken]

Shoot someone in the back, you lose all of my sympathy.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

3) It looks like he's holding a knife as he walks to the car
...
6) He was reaching into his car

Not every black man who gets shot is a martyr for a cause.

You can't know what the guy is going to pull out of that car window. If that's my dad, my brother, my son in that situation, I'm not thrilled if police training says, "Wait for him to turn around." I don't think it does.

Angers me that these people are so eager to get out ahead of a story and push a narrative that is divisive. George Floyd was one thing, this is another. And moreover, even as horrible an example of police brutality as the George Floyd incident was, based on additional video that has since become available, for all the presumption that it was somehow racially motivated, turns out it wasn't racially motivated after all (... if you saw that, and a lot of people evidently did not).

This lurch to divide people by media is immoral, it really is.

We can have intelligent and productive conversations about these issues, but they can't be driven by these knee-jerk emotional reactions. I've been engaged all summer with a group of Black friends and White friends via Facebook in just such a dialogue, and it's been that--intelligent and productive. I understand the issues as well as anyone else because my Black friends... people I know, love and respect... have been candid and have spoken about what they see, which in some cases is the same and in some cases is different from what TV cameras and online media offer.

Weighing whether the Hawks actually want police officers as fans, since they've went all-in to one side as they have. Weighing whether I should be a fan of an sports organization that takes that tack.

Irresponsible.

[kg01]

Wait, who's forcing anyone to choose sides?

[Jamaaliver]

^That would be Mr. Gregory...

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Damn. Don't be like that. These are serious subjects. Don't be mocking. Had the Hawks posted a similar tweet backing the policemen for having done the right thing, you really think it would be all about ME when I posted the same thing that I just posted that that's divisive and irresponsible and premature? You really think it unjustified then to put it in those terms that I did in the subject header? Don't divert the topic into personal crap. This isn't about me or any of you. And I didn't tell the Hawks to do what they did, but/and I'm sure not wrong to call them on it.

[kg01]

Who's making anyone choose anything? This is like people being pissed at the NBA for putting BLM on the courts because it's "distracting" and "takes away from the game". No, it feels that way because you chose to let it bother you.

[jayu70]

Shooting anyone in the back is 'never the right thing' no way you slice it.
You don't become judge, jury and executioner.

[jayu70]

Bucks boycott game tonight, so did Rockets and Thunder.
NBA postpones games for tonight, to be rescheduled.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Literally? No one is making anyone choose anything. You got me.

I"m open to a better way of expressing that the Hawks have taken a position on an issue that is very premature, and that... to your perspective irrationally, to mine entirely rationally... forces fans to decide for themselves whether their support of the team as a consumer entertainment choice is still merited now that they've decided to take a premature position that essentially affirms the company as a political advocacy enterprise... ie, given their avid interest to prejudge the situation.

Perhaps you can help me (... ie, compose a better subject header).

But forgive my skepticism that you're more interested in playing word games than you are in engaging substance... but then again, I wouldn't want to prejudge. Not all the facts have emerged... ... maybe you do want to engage in substance. Let's see.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

3) It looks like he's holding a knife as he walks to the car
...
6) He was reaching into his car

Not every black man who gets shot is a martyr for a cause.

You can't know what the guy is going to pull out of that car window. If that's my dad, my brother, my son in that situation, I'm not thrilled if police training says, "Wait for him to turn around." I don't think it does.

Angers me that these people are so eager to get out ahead of a story and push a narrative that is divisive. George Floyd was one thing, this is another. And moreover, even as horrible an example of police brutality as the George Floyd incident was, based on additional video that has since become available, for all the presumption that it was somehow racially motivated, turns out it wasn't racially motivated after all (... if you saw that, and a lot of people evidently did not).

This lurch to divide people by media is immoral, it really is.

We can have intelligent and productive conversations about these issues, but they can't be driven by these knee-jerk emotional reactions. I've been engaged all summer with a group of Black friends and White friends via Facebook in just such a dialogue, and it's been that--intelligent and productive. I understand the issues as well as anyone else because my Black friends... people I know, love and respect... have been candid and have spoken about what they see, which in some cases is the same and in some cases is different from what TV cameras and online media offer.

Weighing whether the Hawks actually want police officers as fans, since they've went all-in to one side as they have. Weighing whether I should be a fan of an sports organization that takes that tack.

Irresponsible.

[kg01]

Literally? No one is making anyone choose anything. You got me.

I"m open to a better way of expressing that the Hawks have taken a position on an issue that is very premature, and that... to your perspective irrationally, to mine entirely rationally... forces fans to decide for themselves whether their support of the team as a consumer entertainment choice is still merited now that they've decided to take a premature position that essentially affirms the company as a political advocacy enterprise... ie, given their avid interest to prejudge the situation.

Perhaps you can help me.

But forgive my skepticism that you're more interested in playing word games than you are in engaging substance... but then again, I wouldn't want to prejudge. Not all the facts have emerged.

Make your decision. I wouldn't have even known about this until you brought it to us.

Listen, you don't have to have a high opinion of me. I don't really care. But please realize just because I joke around on what is supposed to be a light-hearted medium, it doesn't mean I'm some simpleton.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Wha?

The very fact that I respond as I do should affirm that I know you're capable of more than joking/mocking. But to the other comment, it's hardly rare that posters figure their best rhetorical strategy is to divert conversation into being about the other poster rather than being about the substance introduced.

Let me say it this way... which is the way I said it a half-hour ago on another board, where the topic was the Bucks decision to boycott a game...

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

This is a bad miscalculation if you're one who stands for NOT prejudging people and situations.

You really don't want policemen/women nationwide to begin boycotting the NBA as fans, or as off-hours security help.

I can very easily say that George Floyd's case, even after seeing the additional video footage, was police brutality. (I cannot say it was racist by any stretch.)

I cannot at all say that a case in which a man--who reportedly was carrying a knife, resisting police orders, and bent over into a vehicle to get God-knows-what--was shot was treated differently than what police training says he should have.

And more to the heart of the matter, I cannot say there is ANY justification to PRESUME a white man would have been treated any differently given those circumstances.

Were those the circumstances? Dunno. Have to let all the evidence come out. Too soon to tell.

WHICH IS THE POINT.

There are legitimate issues. To the degree that you presume EVERY incident to follow your chosen narrative, you end up actually giving people reason to NOT trust your judgment... and thus, legitimate issues get counfounded with illegitimate ones, and in the long-term, you only marginalize the legitimate ones.

Stop. The. Insanity.

For your own good.

Be. Patient.

Do NOT be, yourself, an EXAMPLE OF PREJUDICE when YOUR OWN COMPLAINT IS, in fact, PREJUDICE.

[jayu70]

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