***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)***

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***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#1 » by -Sammy- » Wed Jan 6, 2021 7:36 pm

To those who observe the Gregorian calendar: HAPPY NEW YEAR!

In our perpetual mission to moderate the General Board with surgical precision, the mod team frequently discusses the daily goings-on here. In one such discussion this morning, the illustrious jamaalstar21 made the following point:

jamaalstar21 wrote:Users are allowed to criticize other teams. Users are even allowed to make vacant, tropey, done to death, substanceless criticism of other teams. Bad quality criticism is not necessarily trolling.


We want to build on this observation to briefly refresh y'all on what trolling is and isn't.

Trolling is discourse explicitly intended to upset, offend, trigger, or otherwise rile. Trolling is not expressing a sincerely-held opinion that causes strong reactions as a naturally-occurring byproduct of an ongoing discussion.

The truth is that not all opinions are equally valid or even equally good; some folks on this forum (and every other internet forum) hold opinions of questionable validity. But if they're sincere and expressing them in a style that doesn't violate forum policy (they don't insult anyone, attack fanbases, state gross falsehoods, etc.), they're within their rights to do so.

Fandom is driven by passion, and sometimes, passion causes us to process something we read/hear/see with a touch of subjectivity; sometimes, it makes an otherwise-innocuous statement seem 'trollish' to us. Such a response is extremely common and totally understandable.

Trolling is a function of intention, so there's a degree of judgment in determining whether someone is trolling. Ultimately, it falls to the moderators to determine whether something is a troll attempt.

We want you to report all instances of trolling so we can keep the GB free of it. But before you report a post, consider whether a reasonable case can be made for trolling, or if it's possible that you're reacting with the passion of a fan rather than with the objectivity of a disinterested reader.

We don't want to discourage anyone from taking action against violations, and lord knows we aren't trying to protect, justify, or make room for bad content. But people have a right to hold and express views that challenge majorities and even 'common sense' (so-called); an echo chamber is little fun when the name of the game is spirited discourse.

And now, a little coaching:


Behavioral tendencies and patterns that may indicate trolling
- Posting the exact same thing in multiple threads, over and over, for a prolonged period, to a point of obvious excess or tedium (agenda posting)

- Overusing superlatives or extremes ('Michael Jordan is the very worst player of all times'; 'Shaq will never ever ever win a ring')

- Phrasing that doesn't admit alternative possibilities or nuance concerning uncertain matters ('LeBron is definitely and obviously on gear' instead of 'LeBron might be juicing')



How to avoid accusations of trolling
- It's generally not necessary to state that something is an opinion (unless you're stating a verifiable fact, I already know it's your opinion and not someone else's), but it doesn't hurt to subtly clarify that something is your take when the topic is controversial or when the potential for misunderstanding is higher than normal (i.e. 'I don't think Shaq was as good as Hakeem' is better than 'Hakeem made Shaq his b****'); such an approach disarms others' natural inclination to correct you and makes it about telling you why they disagree instead

- Consider whether your language might be incendiary and whether you can make your point more diplomatically ('The Spurs are pretty bad this year' is better than 'San Antonio is a festering dumpster conflagration')

- Consider whether this forum needs another 'EXPOSED' thread (it probably doesn't), another 'ArE wE jUsT gOnNa IgNoRe' thread (it probably does not), or whether every single player in the league needs a thread about every single game he plays (he probably doeth not)


How to respond to trolls
- Report violations and let us handle them. PM a mod you trust if you feel something warrants additional attention.

- DO NOT 'CALL THEM OUT' FOR TROLLING IN A THREAD. Report the post and let us handle it. Calling another user a 'troll' is potentially a personal attack; don't risk a strike over it.

- DO NOT USE THEIR VIOLATION AS AN EXCUSE TO COMMIT YOUR OWN. All violations will be treated as such, regardless whether someone else commits a violation first.

- DO NOT QUOTE A VIOLATION AND BRAG THAT YOU'VE REPORTED IT. Report it and leave it to us.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

We hope this helps. We'll leave this thread open for constructive, appropriate questions and discussion on the matter.

This thread is only for discussion about what trolling is/isn't. Do not tell us why something barfyman362 posted last week is a troll, threaten to close your account if we don't ban Raps4Lyfe416, or instruct us on what you want the rules to be.

As a final note, let us remind you that THIS IS YOUR BOARD-- the quality of its discourse is in your hands and those of your fellow RGMers. Be the change you want to see.* Happy RGMing!


*FUN FACT: Gandhi didn't say this
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#2 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:49 pm

BombsquadSammy wrote:To those who observe the Gregorian calendar: HAPPY NEW YEAR!


It's Christmas, not the New Year, for those who observe the Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar, but thanks anyway lmao
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#3 » by Baski » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:52 pm

Nice. This was sorely needed.

"Anyone who doesn't believe my opinion is either a hater or trolling"

"Trolls out in full force I see"

"You must be trolling"

Stuff like this is very annoying to read. Of course it hurts as a fan to see your favourite player being disrespected, but calling eveyone who you feel isn't respecting him a troll is actual trolling imo, as it's an insult directed at one or more people intended to get a reaction.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#4 » by taikibansei » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:58 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:To those who observe the Gregorian calendar: HAPPY NEW YEAR!


It's Christmas for those who observe the Gregorian calendar, not the New Year, but thanks anyway lmao


Reported for trollishly confusing the Julian calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Stop the hate!

J/K :wink:
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RIP The Hater--keep up the good fight in the great beyond.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#5 » by BlackNoir » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:00 pm

They see me trollin
They hatin
Patrolling they tryin to catch me ridin dirty
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#6 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:04 pm

taikibansei wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:To those who observe the Gregorian calendar: HAPPY NEW YEAR!


It's Christmas for those who observe the Gregorian calendar, not the New Year, but thanks anyway lmao


Reported for trollishly confusing the Julian calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Stop the hate!

J/K :wink:


Lmao yeah, m'bad, gonna edit.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#7 » by taikibansei » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:05 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
taikibansei wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
It's Christmas for those who observe the Gregorian calendar, not the New Year, but thanks anyway lmao


Reported for trollishly confusing the Julian calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Stop the hate!

J/K :wink:


Lmao yeah, m'bad, gonna edit.


No worries--I've made the same mistake as well! :wink:
RIP magnumt--you're literally why I'm still here on these boards.
RIP The Hater--keep up the good fight in the great beyond.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#8 » by fox2jk » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:32 pm

So glad the mods are stepping up to stop it. It's become emotionally overwhelming for me and at times my feelings are hurt.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#9 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:34 pm

Is closing your account actually an option? How does one go about doing that?
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#10 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:41 pm

Thank you so much for making this clear!
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#11 » by -Sammy- » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:42 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:To those who observe the Gregorian calendar: HAPPY NEW YEAR!


It's Christmas, not the New Year, for those who observe the Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar, but thanks anyway lmao


Fair enough-- happy Julian Christmas!
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#12 » by -Sammy- » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:44 pm

xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:Is closing your account actually an option? How does one go about doing that?


PM a request to Howard Mass.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#13 » by J_T » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:36 am

I think biggest improvement would be that all threads would have to be approved by a mod before becoming visible. The way some threads are worded simply can't attract quality responses.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#14 » by Sofia » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:30 am

xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:Is closing your account actually an option? How does one go about doing that?

Im not saying to do this, but people in the past have made sure of it by posting porn all over the boards.

Don’t do that tho, just pm it to the OTB instead
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#15 » by Sir Casm » Thu Jan 7, 2021 3:20 am

BlackNoir wrote:They see me trollin
They hatin
Patrolling they tryin to catch me ridin dirty


Hehe...
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#16 » by Optms » Thu Jan 7, 2021 4:10 am

So to be clear, the following can now be reported and reviewed by a moderator to judge whether it is trolling or not:

"Player B is trying to lose the game" ?

Because if that's the case, I think this has the makings of potential abuse by posters. For starters, these type of comments are made every game thread, quite literately, and have been for over a decade and no one has batted an eye over them. I don't think it should be up to any moderator to decide if an opinion on players/teams should be up for review because they worded it wrong. This is pretty absurd to me. If people are that sensitive to hearing criticism of teams, they shouldn't be on RealGM, much less the internet. But that is just my sensible opinion.

I take bigger issue with posters resorting to personal attacks for basketball related opinions. Automatic 3 strikes for by passing language filter and personal attacks. No questions asked. I would also like to see a post limit for starting new threads, minimum of at least 150 posts. Or at the very least have mods review all ballboy threads before publishing.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#17 » by El Hespiritu » Thu Jan 7, 2021 4:55 am

Would you consider 'friendly and politely trolling' a thing?

That's my goal, at least.
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#18 » by Sofia » Thu Jan 7, 2021 10:46 am

El Hespiritu wrote:Would you consider 'friendly and politely trolling' a thing?

That's my goal, at least.

It should be fine, I’m still here
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#19 » by druggas » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:15 pm

Optms wrote:So to be clear, the following can now be reported and reviewed by a moderator to judge whether it is trolling or not:

"Player B is trying to lose the game" ?

Because if that's the case, I think this has the makings of potential abuse by posters. For starters, these type of comments are made every game thread, quite literately, and have been for over a decade and no one has batted an eye over them. I don't think it should be up to any moderator to decide if an opinion on players/teams should be up for review because they worded it wrong. This is pretty absurd to me. If people are that sensitive to hearing criticism of teams, they shouldn't be on RealGM, much less the internet. But that is just my sensible opinion.

I take bigger issue with posters resorting to personal attacks for basketball related opinions. Automatic 3 strikes for by passing language filter and personal attacks. No questions asked. I would also like to see a post limit for starting new threads, minimum of at least 150 posts. Or at the very least have mods review all ballboy threads before publishing.

This please!
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Re: ***TROLLING? (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)*** 

Post#20 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 4:05 pm

The biggest problem with this idea is that it gives posters and mods the ability to shut others down because they disagree. Instead of following policies, they can now make up their own decisions based on what they like and don't like.

As for what trolling is, there are good rules in place to ensure posters communicate in an effective way. No bad language, personal insults, on topic etc.

However trolling at its heart is basically an unpopular point of view. And good 'trolling' is a point of view that has some truth to it.

Saying Jordan is the worst player of all time is bad trolling because that's so obviously not true, it's not worth debating. However, saying Jordan isn't top 5 IS an unpopular claim that might be worth debating.

What this amounts to is allowing dissenting views to be shunned because some get deep in their feelings when presented with a viable argument.

The two main reasons for participating on a board is to find and share information, and to discuss/debate various points of view.

If we are going to get into a situation where only widely held beliefs in a community are acceptable, then we definitely lose something. A trade off between a safe space and a free space. One where a few completely dictate what's ok based on their feelings and one where even those with power have a set of rules that they need to abide by.
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