NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

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Who is the MVP so far?

Poll runs till Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 am

Damian Lillard
13
5%
Luka Doncic
8
3%
Nikola Jokic
76
32%
Joel Embiid
14
6%
Kawhi Leonard
1
0%
Steph Curry
3
1%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
51
21%
James Harden
20
8%
LeBron James
51
21%
Other - Who?
1
0%
 
Total votes: 238

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1201 » by NyKnicks1714 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:49 pm

Openheimer wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Openheimer wrote:Thanks to the media narrative and an undeserved one


He's putting up 28/8/8 on a team that's tied for the 2nd best record in the NBA, a team which is below average when he's off the court.

Oh please he is not helping them win games and getting exposed without AD. You really can’t see that? Nice


This doesn't even mean anything; you're the one who's just spewing narratives. Obviously any top-heavy team is going to struggle when you take away its 2nd and 3rd best players.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1202 » by Basileus777 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:51 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Openheimer wrote:
KyRo23 wrote:Gonna be a lot of sour grapes when LeBron still wins MVP :o

Thanks to the media narrative and an undeserved one


He's putting up 28/8/8 on a team that's tied for the 2nd best record in the NBA, a team which is below average when he's off the court.

It's 25/8/8
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1203 » by NyKnicks1714 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:52 pm

Basileus777 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Openheimer wrote:Thanks to the media narrative and an undeserved one


He's putting up 28/8/8 on a team that's tied for the 2nd best record in the NBA, a team which is below average when he's off the court.

It's 25/8/8


It's 26/8/8, we were both wrong.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1204 » by OriginalRed » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm

It's wide open now imo. I said before this was a great chance for Lebron to separate himself from the pack or get brought down into the mix if he loses consecutive games without AD. I can't give credit to Lebron when he wins without AD without also deducting points when he loses, gotta keep it fair.

If the Lakers continue to drop games, then Lebron will far further and further despite the media narratives.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1205 » by KyRo23 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 pm

Openheimer wrote:
KyRo23 wrote:Gonna be a lot of sour grapes when LeBron still wins MVP :o

Thanks to the media narrative and an undeserved one


Undeserved is subjective, but I'll agree with media driven... and that's okay because in a year it won't even matter. When LeBron retires, all it will be is another add to his MVP total. No one will be like "BUT in 2021 MAYBE EMBIID DESERVED IT". It just won't matter.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1206 » by BoatsNZones » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:40 pm

A big issue for Lebron is that his shot is failing him. After his blistering start from 3, he's shooting 24% from range in February, dropping his overall slash to more of his standard 50/35/70 and sub 60% TS. It was the efficiency of his scoring and the Lakers record that were keeping him atop, but with that efficiency gone and the Lakers about to lose another spot in the standings to Phoenix in the coming days, those narratives are deteriorating quickly. He's posting his lowest PER/BPM/WS-48/VORP since his rookie season. He really has zero case as the MVP front-runner at this point.

The good news for him is that every MVP candidate has massive holes in their bid as well. Embiid's probably the guy you would have to slot #1 right now, but he misses 1 out of every 5 games and Philly is predictably coming back down to earth in a hurry (with just the 9th best SRS in the league and having gone 5-5 in their last 10). I'd bet both the Nets and Bucks pass them in the standings in the next month.

Makes for a fun debate when there's nobody running away with it. This could all depend on who of the top 8 players is on a team that gets scorching hot for the last third of the season (barring anyone on the Nets as they have far too much canceling out/missed time going on, along with Harden's sabotaging of the Rockets in the early season in order to force the trade).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1207 » by DCasey91 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:09 pm

Funnily enough candidates that are behind currently Curry, Lillard, Harden can barnstorm it in.

James
Embiid
Jokic
Leonard

All have significant question marks being record/games missed/actual impact.

Irony is that if Giannis never won an MVP he could well and truly be the favorite right now.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1208 » by NyKnicks1714 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:12 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:A big issue for Lebron is that his shot is failing him. After his blistering start from 3, he's shooting 24% from range in February, dropping his overall slash to more of his standard 50/35/70 and sub 60% TS. It was the efficiency of his scoring and the Lakers record that were keeping him atop, but with that efficiency gone and the Lakers about to lose another spot in the standings to Phoenix in the coming days, those narratives are deteriorating quickly. He's posting his lowest PER/BPM/WS-48/VORP since his rookie season. He really has zero case as the MVP front-runner at this point.

The good news for him is that every MVP candidate has massive holes in their bid as well. Embiid's probably the guy you would have to slot #1 right now, but he misses 1 out of every 5 games and Philly is predictably coming back down to earth in a hurry (with just the 9th best SRS in the league and having gone 5-5 in their last 10). I'd bet both the Nets and Bucks pass them in the standings in the next month.

Makes for a fun debate when there's nobody running away with it. This could all depend on who of the top 8 players is on a team that gets scorching hot for the last third of the season (barring anyone on the Nets as they have far too much canceling out/missed time going on, along with Harden's sabotaging of the Rockets in the early season in order to force the trade).


This is a reasonable take. Embiid is pretty clearly the frontrunner right now, but I think a frontrunner case could be made for Jokic, LeBron, and a couple of other guys.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1209 » by trueballer7 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 pm

If I am being absolutely honest, Harden is the only one that has a case for most valuable player in the sense that his transformation into quite an exceptional playmaker solved any role/chemistry issues immediately and has the Nets working on improving in a speedy fashion. Curry, Lillard, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi are all good too, but owing to their team records or the absence from many games, I cant say any single on of them stands out to get an award. Lebron is dead meat without Davis.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1210 » by eyeatoma » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:11 pm

trueballer7 wrote:If I am being absolutely honest, Harden is the only one that has a case for most valuable player in the sense that his transformation into quite an exceptional playmaker solved any role/chemistry issues immediately and has the Nets working on improving in a speedy fashion. Curry, Lillard, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi are all good too, but owing to their team records or the absence from many games, I cant say any single on of them stands out to get an award. Lebron is dead meat without Davis.


LOL what? Philly still has the best record in the East. Let's not put a nail in the coffin just yet LMAO! The nets are good, and may over take, but it's not happened yet.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1211 » by dygaction » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:16 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
He's putting up 28/8/8 on a team that's tied for the 2nd best record in the NBA, a team which is below average when he's off the court.

It's 25/8/8


It's 26/8/8, we were both wrong.


No, you were wrong. You and Basileus777 rounded the numbers differently.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1212 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:23 pm

To me, the order should be
Embiid
Joker

Lebron
Harden
Lillard

with these last 3 interchanging on a daily or weekly basis. I don't think the bottom 3 are way off from the top 2 either.

H.mention to Kawhi and CP3
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1213 » by DCasey91 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:23 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
trueballer7 wrote:If I am being absolutely honest, Harden is the only one that has a case for most valuable player in the sense that his transformation into quite an exceptional playmaker solved any role/chemistry issues immediately and has the Nets working on improving in a speedy fashion. Curry, Lillard, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi are all good too, but owing to their team records or the absence from many games, I cant say any single on of them stands out to get an award. Lebron is dead meat without Davis.


LOL what? Philly still has the best record in the East. Let's not put a nail in the coffin just yet LMAO! The nets are good, and may over take, but it's not happened yet.




I’m 76ers fan we are going to drop and drop hard lol. Our srs rating suck even when we had a real easy first 20 games. Basically we are the same with a higher ceiling with Embiid/Ben. But our roster construction is arguably the worst in the league.

Deeply flawed.

2nd rd/EF at the absolute best. Even that’s stretching it. Can’t bring a substandard backcourt into the playoffs or a score creator. Let alone regular season games.

Wouldn’t surprise me to end up being the 3/4 seed. Nets and Bucks will overtake for sure sooner rather than later. Embiid will miss too many games and Jokic has a poor team record. This same problem will occur for Lebron if Davis misses a month.

Hence Giannis/Harden or Lillard I mentioned earlier is the value horse if one was to come from behind (honestly they weren’t even that far away to begin with).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1214 » by NyKnicks1714 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:28 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
trueballer7 wrote:If I am being absolutely honest, Harden is the only one that has a case for most valuable player in the sense that his transformation into quite an exceptional playmaker solved any role/chemistry issues immediately and has the Nets working on improving in a speedy fashion. Curry, Lillard, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi are all good too, but owing to their team records or the absence from many games, I cant say any single on of them stands out to get an award. Lebron is dead meat without Davis.


LOL what? Philly still has the best record in the East. Let's not put a nail in the coffin just yet LMAO! The nets are good, and may over take, but it's not happened yet.




I’m 76ers fan we are going to drop and drop hard lol. Our srs rating suck even when we had a real easy first 20 games. Basically we are the same with a higher ceiling with Embiid/Ben. But our roster construction is arguably the worst in the league.

Deeply flawed.

2nd rd/EF at the absolute best. Even that’s stretching it. Can’t bring a substandard backcourt into the playoffs or a score creator. Let alone regular season games.

Wouldn’t surprise me to end up being the 3/4 seed. Nets and Bucks will overtake for sure sooner rather than later. Embiid will miss too many games and Jokic has a poor team record. This same problem will occur for Lebron is Davis misses a month.

Hence Giannis/Harden i mentioned earlier is the value horse if one was to come from behind (honestly they weren’t even that far away to begin with).


Harden has no chance. Giannis can definitely enter the conversation as Milwaukee starts winning games.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1215 » by DCasey91 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:47 pm

Don’t understand this Harden is a no chance thing. Is it player bias? Dislike etc etc. He is 100% a viable MVP candidate. Ain’t pumping him up. His impact/numbers on a team and individually for the past 6 years speak for themselves. He’s had one of the greatest regular runs in NBA history lol. Pretty sure he has led W/S’s more than couple of times throughout.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1216 » by jokeboy86 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:48 pm

NyKnicks1714 wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
LOL what? Philly still has the best record in the East. Let's not put a nail in the coffin just yet LMAO! The nets are good, and may over take, but it's not happened yet.




I’m 76ers fan we are going to drop and drop hard lol. Our srs rating suck even when we had a real easy first 20 games. Basically we are the same with a higher ceiling with Embiid/Ben. But our roster construction is arguably the worst in the league.

Deeply flawed.

2nd rd/EF at the absolute best. Even that’s stretching it. Can’t bring a substandard backcourt into the playoffs or a score creator. Let alone regular season games.

Wouldn’t surprise me to end up being the 3/4 seed. Nets and Bucks will overtake for sure sooner rather than later. Embiid will miss too many games and Jokic has a poor team record. This same problem will occur for Lebron is Davis misses a month.

Hence Giannis/Harden i mentioned earlier is the value horse if one was to come from behind (honestly they weren’t even that far away to begin with).


Harden has no chance. Giannis can definitely enter the conversation as Milwaukee starts winning games.


Even though I know Giannis has no shot whatsoever of winning this year a part of me wants the Bucks to get the top record again just to make national media and fans debate his candidacy and lead to a broader discussion We haven't had a team have the best record in the East 3x in a row since the Jordan Bulls and before that the Bird Celtics(hence why Bird won MVP 3x in a row).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1217 » by Freighttrain » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:35 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Don’t understand this Harden is a no chance thing. Is it player bias? Dislike etc etc. He is 100% a viable MVP candidate. Ain’t pumping him up. His impact/numbers on a team and individually for the past 6 years speak for themselves. He’s had one of the greatest regular runs in NBA history lol. Pretty sure he has led W/S’s more than couple of times throughout.


If you're not counting his games in Houston were he purposefully threw games and looked disinterested, then sure he has been great and deserving of MVP contention.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1218 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:00 am

jokeboy86 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:


I’m 76ers fan we are going to drop and drop hard lol. Our srs rating suck even when we had a real easy first 20 games. Basically we are the same with a higher ceiling with Embiid/Ben. But our roster construction is arguably the worst in the league.

Deeply flawed.

2nd rd/EF at the absolute best. Even that’s stretching it. Can’t bring a substandard backcourt into the playoffs or a score creator. Let alone regular season games.

Wouldn’t surprise me to end up being the 3/4 seed. Nets and Bucks will overtake for sure sooner rather than later. Embiid will miss too many games and Jokic has a poor team record. This same problem will occur for Lebron is Davis misses a month.

Hence Giannis/Harden i mentioned earlier is the value horse if one was to come from behind (honestly they weren’t even that far away to begin with).


Harden has no chance. Giannis can definitely enter the conversation as Milwaukee starts winning games.


Even though I know Giannis has no shot whatsoever of winning this year a part of me wants the Bucks to get the top record again just to make national media and fans debate his candidacy and lead to a broader discussion We haven't had a team have the best record in the East 3x in a row since the Jordan Bulls and before that the Bird Celtics(hence why Bird won MVP 3x in a row).

I mean Bird won 3 in a row because he was the best player in the league (a league with Jordan/Magic/Hakeem/Malone(s),Kareem, etc) and proved it in the playoffs during that span, culminating in 3 Finals for the Celtics and 2 ships/Finals MVP's in those seasons. That's a sliiiight difference between the two. Realistically, Giannis' only chance (and it would have still been very tough) would have been if he and the Bucks somehow just blew the league out of the water and both improved their level of play from last year. But, both he and the Bucks have regressed this season. He has zero chance despite having a borderline MVP level case.

Harden, for different reasons also has zero chance this year. He has zero statistical case as the best player, he has proven to struggle in the post-season (matters for narrative, and it's why Lebron is still seen as a front-runner right now), and a majority of voters would never give him the benefit of the doubt after what happened in Houston. People can argue his merits in a vacuum all they want, but he has zero chance to win (and hell, even the objective/statistical BBREF Award Tracker does not have him among their top 10 choices. He's a moot point).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1219 » by Packbuckman » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:20 am

BoatsNZones wrote:
jokeboy86 wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
Harden has no chance. Giannis can definitely enter the conversation as Milwaukee starts winning games.


Even though I know Giannis has no shot whatsoever of winning this year a part of me wants the Bucks to get the top record again just to make national media and fans debate his candidacy and lead to a broader discussion We haven't had a team have the best record in the East 3x in a row since the Jordan Bulls and before that the Bird Celtics(hence why Bird won MVP 3x in a row).

I mean Bird won 3 in a row because he was the best player in the league (a league with Jordan/Magic/Hakeem/Malone(s),Kareem, etc) and proved it in the playoffs during that span, culminating in 3 Finals for the Celtics and 2 ships/Finals MVP's in those seasons. That's a sliiiight difference between the two. Realistically, Giannis' only chance (and it would have still been very tough) would have been if he and the Bucks somehow just blew the league out of the water and both improved their level of play from last year. But, both he and the Bucks have regressed this season. He has zero chance despite having a borderline MVP level case.

Harden, for different reasons also has zero chance this year. He has zero statistical case as the best player, he has proven to struggle in the post-season (matters for narrative, and it's why Lebron is still seen as a front-runner right now), and a majority of voters would never give him the benefit of the doubt after what happened in Houston. People can argue his merits in a vacuum all they want, but he has zero chance to win (and hell, even the objective/statistical BBREF Award Tracker does not have him among their top 10 choices. He's a moot point).


Giannis and the bucks definitely have a chance to have the best record in the East again. Giannis first 19 gms 59% from the free throw line the last 11 games 75% and 6-8 so far this gm and 23 pts at the half. His stroke looks so much smoother and he is just more confident he continues this look out league! Plus jrue has been out for 9 games and counting for health protocols he was playing great for us.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1220 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:27 am

Packbuckman wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
jokeboy86 wrote:
Even though I know Giannis has no shot whatsoever of winning this year a part of me wants the Bucks to get the top record again just to make national media and fans debate his candidacy and lead to a broader discussion We haven't had a team have the best record in the East 3x in a row since the Jordan Bulls and before that the Bird Celtics(hence why Bird won MVP 3x in a row).

I mean Bird won 3 in a row because he was the best player in the league (a league with Jordan/Magic/Hakeem/Malone(s),Kareem, etc) and proved it in the playoffs during that span, culminating in 3 Finals for the Celtics and 2 ships/Finals MVP's in those seasons. That's a sliiiight difference between the two. Realistically, Giannis' only chance (and it would have still been very tough) would have been if he and the Bucks somehow just blew the league out of the water and both improved their level of play from last year. But, both he and the Bucks have regressed this season. He has zero chance despite having a borderline MVP level case.

Harden, for different reasons also has zero chance this year. He has zero statistical case as the best player, he has proven to struggle in the post-season (matters for narrative, and it's why Lebron is still seen as a front-runner right now), and a majority of voters would never give him the benefit of the doubt after what happened in Houston. People can argue his merits in a vacuum all they want, but he has zero chance to win (and hell, even the objective/statistical BBREF Award Tracker does not have him among their top 10 choices. He's a moot point).


Giannis and the bucks definitely have a chance to have the best record in the East again. Giannis first 19 gms 59% from the free throw line the last 11 games 75% and 6-8 so far this gm and 23 pts at the half. His stroke looks so much smoother and he is just more confident he continues this look out league! Plus jrue has been out for 9 games and counting for health protocols he was playing great for us.

They're PRO-gressing to the mean for sure, and they should finish with the 1st or 2nd best record in the East. But there's a very, very low probability of both the Bucks and Giannis outperforming last season, which is the bare minimum that he'd need for a shot at voters giving him b2b2b after the underwhelming playoffs both years. I'm a Giannis fan, but it's not happening for him (and shouldn't).

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