The Curious Case of Obi Toppin

gswhoops · Post #1 » by **gswhoops** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:15 pm

Toppin was drafted at #8 and expected to be the Knicks’ PF of the future. Of course, the Randle Renaissance and the Knicks’ unforeseen rise to a middle-tier playoff team has put Toppin in a bit of an uncertain spot.

Are the Knicks looking to move him? What would they want in return?

(FWIW, I don’t think he’d be a good fit on my team, I’m just very curious what Knicks’ fans expectations and hopes are)

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:25 pm

Obi is already 23 and while he hasn't been a complete disappointment, a 23-year old rookie should be significantly better than he has showed.

I had him outside of my top 20 prospects and it seems his skill-set has not translated well to the NBA.

He is older than significantly better young Power Forwards like P.J. Washington and Darius Bazley and then similar disappointments like 22 year old Marvin "Taken before Luka and Trae" Bagley, 22 year old Wendell Carter Jr. He is similar age to MPJ...

The issue with moving him is he has no value. No team should give a 1st for him given his age and production and why would the Knicks trade him for a second other than to clear cap space?

gswhoops · Post #3 » by **gswhoops** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:32 pm

Colbinii wrote:Obi is already 23 and while he hasn't been a complete disappointment, a 23-year old rookie should be significantly better than he has showed.

I had him outside of my top 20 prospects and it seems his skill-set has not translated well to the NBA.

He is older than significantly better young Power Forwards like P.J. Washington and Darius Bazley and then similar disappointments like 22 year old Marvin "Taken before Luka and Trae" Bagley, 22 year old Wendell Carter Jr. He is similar age to MPJ...

The issue with moving him is he has no value. No team should give a 1st for him given his age and production and why would the Knicks trade him for a second other than to clear cap space?

His age is an issue but I think he could still fetch a first (albeit probably not a lottery pick)

BK_2020 · Post #4 » by **BK_2020** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:35 pm

Grant Williams + two seconds for Obi Toppin?

Chinook · Post #5 » by **Chinook** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:49 pm

I'd still pay a pretty penny for Toppin. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't come out hot given the circumstances.

Colbinii · Post #6 » by **Colbinii** » Thu May 13, 2021 4:51 pm

gswhoops wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Obi is already 23 and while he hasn't been a complete disappointment, a 23-year old rookie should be significantly better than he has showed.

I had him outside of my top 20 prospects and it seems his skill-set has not translated well to the NBA.

He is older than significantly better young Power Forwards like P.J. Washington and Darius Bazley and then similar disappointments like 22 year old Marvin "Taken before Luka and Trae" Bagley, 22 year old Wendell Carter Jr. He is similar age to MPJ...

The issue with moving him is he has no value. No team should give a 1st for him given his age and production and why would the Knicks trade him for a second other than to clear cap space?

His age is an issue but I think he could still fetch a first (albeit probably not a lottery pick)

I wouldn't give up a 1st for Obi. Id rather have the extra year and a prospect 2-3 years younger.

Mike lorenzo · Post #7 » by **Mike lorenzo** » Thu May 13, 2021 5:34 pm

the boy is talented, the covid season, Randle playing like a star, covering him up ... we don't bury him ... something that I like for both of them ..
Barnes to Knicks ..
Toppin to Kings ..

SNPA · Post #8 » by **SNPA** » Thu May 13, 2021 5:37 pm

He isn’t very good. Knox 2.0. They’d be smart to move him for whatever they can get.

kalenclayton · Post #9 » by **kalenclayton** » Thu May 13, 2021 5:44 pm

Mike lorenzo wrote:the boy is talented, the covid season, Randle playing like a star, covering him up ... we don't bury him ... something that I like for both of them ..
Barnes to Knicks ..
Toppin to Kings ..

I hate talking a player down, but Toppin was a poor pick at the time of the draft and should’ve went in the twenties. I don’t know if he fetches a first right now.

As for that trade, I think it’s very poor value for Barnes and a very bad fit as Bagley is a better prospect who operates in the same area as Toppin.

BullyKing · Post #10 » by **BullyKing** » Thu May 13, 2021 5:45 pm

Feel like this was the predictable outcome when you use a top pick on an over-age player whose most notable attribute was dunking ability.-

babyjax13 · Post #11 » by **babyjax13** » Thu May 13, 2021 5:52 pm

I think Toppin's main issue was biomechanical and the question of translation was if you thought he could improve there or not. I thought he could, and I was wrong. Can he still become a useful player, maybe in the same ilk as Bobby Portis? I think so, but that's certainly not going to fetch anything of note. New York is probably best hanging onto him and seeing if he can resuscitate some value, because if he doesn't the return is likely going to be similar to what it is now, at best a late first, but probably some second round picks.

Buzzard · Post #12 » by **Buzzard** » Thu May 13, 2021 6:15 pm

I was not as high on Toppin as some Hawks fans. I did not like him in the top 7 or 8; but I still thought he would be able to score and rebound.

His TS% is poor for a big; and his per 36 is not indicating his scoring or rebounding is translating to the NBA. Its to early to sell on him but I am still disappointed so far.

A team with a later pick might be willing to take him on. But I would think the range would be 15 - 20.

gswhoops · Post #13 » by **gswhoops** » Thu May 13, 2021 6:24 pm

Buzzard wrote:I was not as high on Toppin as some Hawks fans. I did not like him in the top 7 or 8; but I still thought he would be able to score and rebound.

His TS% is poor for a big; and his per 36 is not indicating his scoring or rebounding is translating to the NBA. Its to early to sell on him but I am still disappointed so far.

A team with a later pick might be willing to take him on. But I would think the range would be 15 - 20.

This is kind of what I would envision as well. A rebuilding team with multiple picks (OKC, Houston?) taking a flier on him

Bologna Smasher · Post #14 » by **Bologna Smasher** » Thu May 13, 2021 6:39 pm

I don't think his value is worth trading him right now, especially since they just used a lottery pick on him. If I was the Knicks, I'd look to hold on to him for a couple years and see how he pans out. Their development this year is going to make them players in free agency for the next couple years. If he turns into a decent role player, having him on a cheap rookie deal for the next three years can be big for them if they're able to bring in a couple big name free agents.

gswhoops · Post #15 » by **gswhoops** » Thu May 13, 2021 6:48 pm

[tweet][/tweet]

Bologna Smasher wrote:I don't think his value is worth trading him right now, especially since they just used a lottery pick on him. If I was the Knicks, I'd look to hold on to him for a couple years and see how he pans out. Their development this year is going to make them players in free agency for the next couple years. If he turns into a decent role player, having him on a cheap rookie deal for the next three years can be big for them if they're able to bring in a couple big name free agents.

I agree with this in principle, but for Toppin/NY specifically, I have a hard time seeing how he’s going to find the minutes or role to develop. He’s not big enough to play the 5 or agile enough to play the 3 regularly (and neither is Randle), so he’s seemingly stuck with whatever minutes Randle is on the bench and spot minutes in small ball lineups.

Scoot McGroot · Post #16 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu May 13, 2021 7:07 pm

If the picks lock in about where they are now, Lamb/13 for Toppin/18?

babyjax13 · Post #17 » by **babyjax13** » Thu May 13, 2021 7:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:If the picks lock in about where they are now, Lamb/13 for Toppin/18?

Seems reasonable to me, and Toppin could be a good fit with Turner, even if he does just turn into just a bench player.

SNPA · Post #18 » by **SNPA** » Thu May 13, 2021 7:45 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If the picks lock in about where they are now, Lamb/13 for Toppin/18?

Seems reasonable to me, and Toppin could be a good fit with Turner, even if he does just turn into just a bench player.

I get contract length, etc but this board having Toppin with more value than Bagley is hard to get my head around. Bagley is better now, younger and has way more upside.

ChettheJet · Post #19 » by **ChettheJet** » Thu May 13, 2021 7:52 pm

Chicago fans can tell you, Thibs doesn't trust rookies, doesn't like playing rookies. If Toppin hasn't made gains as a rookie that's as much of a reason as any you want to pluck out of thin air. I'd go back to the scouting report on him prior to the draft and ask if everybody missed seeing who he really was or did the Knicks not have any plan to develop him as a rookie? His age comes up, understand that Taj Gibson was a very late FRP for the Bulls at age 26, did well as a rookie and he's still playing for Thibs in NY. If you want to write Toppin off after almost a full season, go ahead and risk looking like a fool.

If the Bulls had a chance to get Toppin, I'd give it a serious look and I'll bet Thibs would like to have any age veteran in return for him.

babyjax13 · Post #20 » by **babyjax13** » Thu May 13, 2021 7:57 pm

SNPA wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If the picks lock in about where they are now, Lamb/13 for Toppin/18?

Seems reasonable to me, and Toppin could be a good fit with Turner, even if he does just turn into just a bench player.

I get contract length, etc but this board having Toppin with more value than Bagley is hard to get my head around. Bagley is better now, younger and has way more upside.

Does he have more upside? I think there is still a chance that injuries derailed Toppin's first year enough that we missed seeing some development, that seems worth more of a gamble than Bagley. Granted, I'm not crazy about either of them at this point - though I think if the price is right seeing if a team that has good player development can iron some things out of their games could be worth it.