RealGM

Rank Best PGs of all time as far as On-Ball Creation ability

1....Magic Johnson



2....All others

For me, Magic, Nash, Kidd, Stockton and CP3 are my tpp 5, its not a ranking.

Magic, Nash, Stockton

It's Nash for me: He had amazing vision and passing accuracy, which combined w/ his handling and range, was deadly. His gravity allowed his teammates to operate w/ less coverage, and when someone was empty, it was sure, Nash found him. The SSOL Suns was such a beauty to watch - and it was like 90% because of Nash

After him maybe Magic or Paul. I don't really like Kidd here as his half court game was never really great. He was the perfect transition PG though...

To me Stockton was more of a finder than a creator. Sloan system had a lot of cutting and off ball movement and needed high IQ passer to pick out the right openings rather than someone to create openings. Post-2009 CP3 is much the same style, they mainly don't let opportunities slip rather than creating a bunch of opportunities.

Magic to me, with Nash being close second.

When you consider creating shots for other players and for themselves -

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
John Stockton
Stephen Curry
Kevin Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Nate Archibald
Tim Hardaway

lebron3-14-3 wrote:Rank Best PGs of all time as far as On-Ball Creation ability

Elaborate on what you mean by 'On Ball creation'.

I'm convinced Nash would have had Kwame Brown scoring 15 points a night if they ever played with each other.

_qubik wrote:For me, Magic, Nash, Kidd, Stockton and CP3 are my tpp 5, its not a ranking.

Love Kidd, but on ball creation was not one of his best strengths, he was a great passer, but he was not particularly great at shifting the defense and threatening the defense as a shot creator (for others and self) when compared to other top PG's.

Theo Ratliff wrote:I'm convinced Nash would have had Kwame Brown scoring 15 points a night if they ever played with each other.

Problem is that the team wouldn't leave Kwame on the floor long enough to average 15 ppg

lebron3-14-3 wrote:Rank Best PGs of all time as far as On-Ball Creation ability

Elaborate on what you mean by 'On Ball creation'.

TheBobster wrote:When you consider creating shots for other players and for themselves -

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
John Stockton
Stephen Curry
Kevin Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Nate Archibald
Tim Hardaway

Great list. I might nit-pick on the order, and I also might swap out Hardaway for Strickland, but you had my and1 as soon as you mentioned Tiny Archibald

oldncreaky wrote:

TheBobster wrote:When you consider creating shots for other players and for themselves -

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
John Stockton
Stephen Curry
Kevin Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Nate Archibald
Tim Hardaway

Great list. I might nit-pick on the order, and I also might swap out Hardaway for Strickland, but you had my and1 as soon as you mentioned Tiny Archibald

i think lillard might need to be in there over tim. EDIT: maybe not tim, but He should be in there or really close.

oldncreaky wrote:

TheBobster wrote:When you consider creating shots for other players and for themselves -

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
John Stockton
Stephen Curry
Kevin Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Nate Archibald
Tim Hardaway

Great list. I might nit-pick on the order, and I also might swap out Hardaway for Strickland, but you had my and1 as soon as you mentioned Tiny Archibald

Baron Davis deserves a mention.

Lockdown504090 wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:

TheBobster wrote:When you consider creating shots for other players and for themselves -

Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
John Stockton
Stephen Curry
Kevin Johnson
Isiah Thomas
Nate Archibald
Tim Hardaway

Great list. I might nit-pick on the order, and I also might swap out Hardaway for Strickland, but you had my and1 as soon as you mentioned Tiny Archibald

i think lillard might need to be in there over tim. EDIT: maybe not tim, but He should be in there or really close.

Lillard does not belong on this list.

Magic and Stockton then the others. Nash third

2020 wrote:

Lockdown504090 wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:
Great list. I might nit-pick on the order, and I also might swap out Hardaway for Strickland, but you had my and1 as soon as you mentioned Tiny Archibald

i think lillard might need to be in there over tim. EDIT: maybe not tim, but He should be in there or really close.

Lillard does not belong on this list.

why not? . hes averaging 24/7 on great percentages and low turnovers for his career and functions as an on ball shot creator most of the time, a lot more than some of the other guys on this list? is it an era thing for you? playoff performances? i mean all these guards have some terrible performances. What lillard has done on the ball the last 3-4 years has been insane.

Actually, this list not having harden in it is just laughable when I think of it.

It's Magic and Nash and then a big drop off.

Magic was so punishing on every possession. It started with the threat of him using his size, strength, and speed to score. The defense is already pressured by this, and then Magic was constantly tracking every possible mismatch possibility on the floor and then instantly delivering the ball to the best matchup as the defense overreacted.

Nash was not only one of the best decision-makers ever, but like Magic, he never took his foot off the defense's throat. Constant penetrating into the teeth of the defense and forcing the defense to give up a dunk or a three. It wasn't that Nash waited for the opening, he forced the opening wide open.

I really can't think of someone else in their peer group in terms of this "on-ball creation" idea. Chris Paul keeps getting mentioned, but I view him as more of a careful custodian. Paul keeps the ball safe, grabs every piece of low hanging fruit the defense offers, and the can bail you out with his deadly midrange jumper. But if you really watch him play, Paul is essentially conservative. His desire to always make the safe play, makes him fundamentally different from Magic and Nash. Not saying he's not a great player, just that his style was different and made him a less dynamic creator overall. I view Stockton in this category as well. Both of these guys can amp up the aggressiveness when the team really needs it, but I view them both as the ultimate caretaker of an offense, rather than huge creative forces. Kidd didn't have any scoring threat in the halfcourt (outside of just being kind of a physical beast), so his passing wasn't as weaponized to be a big on-ball creator.

So yeah, after the Magic and Nash tier, I kind of struggle to pick the next set of guys to be in the conversation.

Lockdown504090 wrote:

2020 wrote:

Lockdown504090 wrote:i think lillard might need to be in there over tim. EDIT: maybe not tim, but He should be in there or really close.

Lillard does not belong on this list.

why not? . hes averaging 24/7 on great percentages and low turnovers for his career and functions as an on ball shot creator most of the time, a lot more than some of the other guys on this list? is it an era thing for you? playoff performances? i mean all these guards have some terrible performances. What lillard has done on the ball the last 3-4 years has been insane.

Actually, this list not having harden in it is just laughable when I think of it.

I thought we we're talking about on-ball point guard creators which I interpreted as magical facilitators such as Magic, Nash, Kidd, Baron Davis, LaMelo, etc...

I feel Lillard is more of the Curry mold (magical on-ball scorer).