Is Masai serious about coming back?

[OakleyDokely]

Not sure where you're getting your info but your completely false. In no way did Masai mortgage the future, he actually created a pretty good one while also winning - which teams never do because its too difficult.

Masai isn't tanking next season nor is this team.

Trading Jonas for a now washed up Marc Gasol who isn't even on the team was a win now move. Trading DeMar, Jakob, and a future first for one season of Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green was a win now move. Those moves are now hurting the team because we don't have a credible center on roster.

And at this point we don't know if the Raptors will tank next season. Is Kyle coming back? If so, how much age related decline will there be? How committed will Nick Nurse be to getting whatever young player we get in the draft minutes at the expense of winning? Can we sign a center with the limited options available? Is Gary Trent coming back? Will he be any better than he was in the short time he played with the Raptors this season? When will Pascal be back from injury? How good will he be when he does return?

That's a lot of questions we don't know the answer to, I think it's very possible that next season will be a repeat of this season, with the team losing a lot of games, it depends upon what moves are made and where the draft pick lands.

Those werent mortgage the future moves as you previously put. Nothing got mortgaged. We actually capitalized on win now moves resulting in a championship which is very hard to do. In the mean time, we also 'built for the future' as we now have a solid young core in FVV, Siakam and OG (with a draft pick and possibly retaining Trent) to add. Team is looking great for next season - especially of the news we will be back in Toronto for new season.

Mortgaging the future is what the Nets, Bucks, Clippers have done. Those teams traded all their future picks for win now moves.

Masai didn't do that. The Raps have their pick this year and all their picks moving forward.

[ciueli]

Those werent mortgage the future moves as you previously put. Nothing got mortgaged. We actually capitalized on win now moves resulting in a championship which is very hard to do. In the mean time, we also 'built for the future' as we now have a solid young core in FVV, Siakam and OG (with a draft pick and possibly retaining Trent) to add. Team is looking great for next season - especially of the news we will be back in Toronto for new season.

Trading young for old and trading away picks and young talent for 1 year rentals is the very definition of mortgaging the future. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that.

The team is not looking great next season:
- Kyle Lowry might not be back, we didn't even make the playoffs with him this season, if we lose him the team will be worse. Even if he's back, he's starting to show age related decline and it uses money that we need to shore up other positions.
- Gary Trent Jr. has proved nothing, he's a decent 3 point shooter and not great at much else. And we'll probably wind up overpaying him if he does come back considering he was looking for $15M per year.
- Pascal is injured now, we don't know when he'll be back or in what condition he'll be in when he does come back, but the possibility of missing time during the season seems high. Even if he doesn't he is likely missing out on an entire summer of being able to develop and work on his game, which is exactly what contributed to his poor performance this past season.
- Chris Boucher is currently injured as well, no way to know how this will affect his production or health next season.
- We don't have a decent starting center on the roster, if we bring back Kyle and Gary Trent we'll only have the MLE to address that position which means the pickings will probably be relatively slim.

If none of what I've mentioned here concerns you, then you're just being willfully ignorant of the team building challenges that lie ahead for the Raptors, the core of Fred, OG, and Pascal is exactly the same core that failed to make the playoffs this season.

[WuTang_OG]

Those werent mortgage the future moves as you previously put. Nothing got mortgaged. We actually capitalized on win now moves resulting in a championship which is very hard to do. In the mean time, we also 'built for the future' as we now have a solid young core in FVV, Siakam and OG (with a draft pick and possibly retaining Trent) to add. Team is looking great for next season - especially of the news we will be back in Toronto for new season.

Trading young for old and trading away picks and young talent for 1 year rentals is the very definition of mortgaging the future. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that.

The team is not looking great next season:
- Kyle Lowry might not be back, we didn't even make the playoffs with him this season, if we lose him the team will be worse. Even if he's back, he's starting to show age related decline and it uses money that we need to shore up other positions.
- Gary Trent Jr. has proved nothing, he's a decent 3 point shooter and not great at much else. And we'll probably wind up overpaying him if he does come back considering he was looking for $15M per year.
- Pascal is injured now, we don't know when he'll be back or in what condition he'll be in when he does come back, but the possibility of missing time during the season seems high. Even if he doesn't he is likely missing out on an entire summer of being able to develop and work on his game, which is exactly what contributed to his poor performance this past season.
- Chris Boucher is currently injured as well, no way to know how this will affect his production or health next season.
- We don't have a decent starting center on the roster, if we bring back Kyle and Gary Trent we'll only have the MLE to address that position which means the pickings will probably be relatively slim.

If none of what I've mentioned here concerns you, then you're just being willfully ignorant of the team building challenges that lie ahead for the Raptors, the core of Fred, OG, and Pascal is exactly the same core that failed to make the playoffs this season.

No, you don't understand what mortgaging the future is. That never happened here. There's no disagreeing, you're just wrong.
Mortgaging the future is when you continually trade future picks and handcuff the team for many years thereafter, ie. Nets in Pierce/Garnett deal.
What I'm focusing on is the great young core we have in OG, Siakam and Fred with a new draft pick on the way. Winning while building on the fly - that's proper team building. You not recognizing that just shows the lack of understanding you have on the NBA.

[ciueli]

No, you don't understand what mortgaging the future is. That never happened here. There's no disagreeing, you're just wrong.
Mortgaging the future is when you continually trade future picks and handcuff the team for many years thereafter, ie. Nets in Pierce/Garnett deal.
What I'm focusing on is the great young core we have in OG, Siakam and Fred with a new draft pick on the way. Winning while building on the fly - that's proper team building. You not recognizing that just shows the lack of understanding you have on the NBA.

The definition of mortgaging the future is when you make a move for the present and it costs you something in the future. Trading away both our young centers cost us this past season because we had a gaping hole at center we could not fill. So no, you are wrong, it's very clear. Even worse, we have no easy way to compensate for the loss of those players now with limited flexibility and few good free agent options available.

OG, Siakam, and FVV are not a "great young core", OG is the only really young player in that core, Fred and Pascal will be heading into their year 28 seasons which is middle aged in the NBA. And as I already pointed out, it's the same core (minus Kyle) that failed to get the Raptors into the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference this year.

Draft picks are great, but it usually take years of development for 18-20 year old players to become good, productive NBA caliber players. Maybe we luck out and get a top 4 pick, but it's more likely we draft in the 7-9 range where there are mostly players with question marks. They will have to spend time in the G League developing, or time playing for the Raptors and making mistakes, that's how the NBA works.

So I would say with you not understanding any of what I just wrote, it's actually you that has a poor understanding of the NBA, not me.

[WuTang_OG]

No, you don't understand what mortgaging the future is. That never happened here. There's no disagreeing, you're just wrong.
Mortgaging the future is when you continually trade future picks and handcuff the team for many years thereafter, ie. Nets in Pierce/Garnett deal.
What I'm focusing on is the great young core we have in OG, Siakam and Fred with a new draft pick on the way. Winning while building on the fly - that's proper team building. You not recognizing that just shows the lack of understanding you have on the NBA.

The definition of mortgaging the future is when you make a move for the present and it costs you something in the future. Trading away both our young centers cost us this past season because we had a gaping hole at center we could not fill. So no, you are wrong, it's very clear. Even worse, we have no easy way to compensate for the loss of those players now with limited flexibility and few good free agent options available.

OG, Siakam, and FVV are not a "great young core", OG is the only really young player in that core, Fred and Pascal will be heading into their year 28 seasons which is middle aged in the NBA. And as I already pointed out, it's the same core (minus Kyle) that failed to get the Raptors into the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conference this year.

Draft picks are great, but it usually take years of development for 18-20 year old players to become good, productive NBA caliber players. Maybe we luck out and get a top 4 pick, but it's more likely we draft in the 7-9 range where there are mostly players with question marks. They will have to spend time in the G League developing, or time playing for the Raptors and making mistakes, that's how the NBA works.

So I would say with you not understanding any of what I just wrote, it's actually you that has a poor understanding of the NBA, not me.

Wrong again. You have a very poor understanding of our situation/understanding general nba terms. Let me try to break it down for you.

Firstly, we never traded two of our centres. We decided not to retain them in free agency.

You continue to not understand the term mortgaging the future. We did not do this. Please review what Billy King did or better yet what Clippers did for Paul George. That is mortgaging the future. The raps did not do this.

As I mentioned, we do have a great young core and you likely did not know this, but we sat 4th just before the team got Covid. I hope you understand this. We bottomed out because our core was out for a month.

[Preliudas]

I absolutely believe it's because he's waiting to see where we land in the draft. My bet is MLSE doesn't want to tank to rebuild the team, Masai does. If we land a top 4 pick, he'll stay because we have something to work with without tanking.

Are you implying that Raptors should tank next year if they don't land Top 4 pick?

[ciueli]

Wrong again. You have a very poor understanding of our situation/understanding general nba terms. Let me try to break it down for you.

Firstly, we never traded two of our centres. We decided not to retain them in free agency.

You continue to not understand the term mortgaging the future. We did not do this. Please review what Billy King did or better yet what Clippers did for Paul George. That is mortgaging the future. The raps did not do this.

As I mentioned, we do have a great young core and you likely did not know this, but we sat 4th just before the team got Covid. I hope you understand this. We bottomed out because our core was out for a month.

You're still wrong about mortgaging, we would have kept Jonas on a reasonable contract the way Memphis did if we had not traded him. Jakob is not making a huge amount of money either and was RFA so we would have easily been able to keep him as well. We did the right thing to win a title but that was the price we paid, losing our future center depth when Marc and Serge left.

And maybe you did not know this, but other teams lost games due to COVID as well, in fact the Raptors were lucky to lose much of the time over the All-Star break. The Celtics and Heat managed to make it through to the playoffs after suffering from COVID, but the Raptors didn't and the reason is that the team lost so many games after everyone was back, many of them to beatable teams like the Detroit Pistons.

Heading into next season the following Eastern Conference teams have brighter futures than the Raptors:
Nets - Durant, Harden, and Irving, Raptors don't have a single player as good as any of them, they'll be good for at least the next 2-3 seasons
Milwaukee - Giannis is a regular season monster and he has enough around him with Jrue, Middleton, and Brook Lopez for the next 2-3 years
Celtics - Tatum + Brown is a vastly superior young core than anything the Raptors have, they'll be really good for a long time
Philadelphia 76ers - Embiid + Simmons + Tobias core is substantially better and about the same age as Pascal + OG + FVV
Miami - Jimmy Butler + Bam are both multi-time All-Stars and they have cap space to work with, Jimmy's aging but Bam is better than anyone on the Raptors long term and players want to play in Miami
Atlanta Hawks - Trae Young + Collins + Capela is younger and superior core than Pascal + OG + FVV

So for the next few seasons at least the Raptors are at best 7th or 8th in the East if they're lucky because they're still competing with teams like the Pacers (Sabonis, Brogdon, Turner), Charlotte (Rozier, LaMelo, Hayward, Washington), The Knicks (Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, and a mountain of cap space) for the 7th or 8th seed.

[Raps in 4]

The fact that he hasn't re-signed yet has me worried (I wasn't before). MLSE is either cheaping out in typical Rogers/Bell fashion or he's legitimately considering a non-basketball career.

If he leaves, I just hope he doesn't take Dan with him. We need Bobby and Dan to make this work moving forward.

If he does leave and takes Dan with him, I hope Rogers and Bell go bankrupt (or rather, I'll wish for that more than I usually do).

[WuTang_OG]

Wrong again. You have a very poor understanding of our situation/understanding general nba terms. Let me try to break it down for you.

Firstly, we never traded two of our centres. We decided not to retain them in free agency.

You continue to not understand the term mortgaging the future. We did not do this. Please review what Billy King did or better yet what Clippers did for Paul George. That is mortgaging the future. The raps did not do this.

As I mentioned, we do have a great young core and you likely did not know this, but we sat 4th just before the team got Covid. I hope you understand this. We bottomed out because our core was out for a month.

You're still wrong about mortgaging, we would have kept Jonas on a reasonable contract the way Memphis did if we had not traded him. Jakob is not making a huge amount of money either and was RFA so we would have easily been able to keep him as well. We did the right thing to win a title but that was the price we paid, losing our future center depth when Marc and Serge left.

And maybe you did not know this, but other teams lost games due to COVID as well, in fact the Raptors were lucky to lose much of the time over the All-Star break. The Celtics and Heat managed to make it through to the playoffs after suffering from COVID, but the Raptors didn't and the reason is that the team lost so many games after everyone was back, many of them to beatable teams like the Detroit Pistons.

Heading into next season the following Eastern Conference teams have brighter futures than the Raptors:
Nets - Durant, Harden, and Irving, Raptors don't have a single player as good as any of them, they'll be good for at least the next 2-3 seasons
Milwaukee - Giannis is a regular season monster and he has enough around him with Jrue, Middleton, and Brook Lopez for the next 2-3 years
Celtics - Tatum + Brown is a vastly superior young core than anything the Raptors have, they'll be really good for a long time
Philadelphia 76ers - Embiid + Simmons + Tobias core is substantially better and about the same age as Pascal + OG + FVV
Miami - Jimmy Butler + Bam are both multi-time All-Stars and they have cap space to work with, Jimmy's aging but Bam is better than anyone on the Raptors long term and players want to play in Miami
Atlanta Hawks - Trae Young + Collins + Capela is younger and superior core than Pascal + OG + FVV

So for the next few seasons at least the Raptors are at best 7th or 8th in the East if they're lucky because they're still competing with teams like the Pacers (Sabonis, Brogdon, Turner), Charlotte (Rozier, LaMelo, Hayward, Washington), The Knicks (Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, and a mountain of cap space) for the 7th or 8th seed.

You still arent comprehending that we traded Jonas to get better which is why we got Marc and thus resulting in a championship. This isnt mortgaging the future. Its called smart team management because without Marc we werent winning. What dont you understand? According to you, we should have kept Jonas and not won a championship. Are you all there?

[hyper316]

Raptors win draft next week, Masai stays

[Pooh_Jeter]

The longer this drags on the less likely it is that Masai comes back IMO.

He has been playing the PR battle beautifully. There is basically nothing ownership can say to soften the blow of him leaving while whether it's true or not he has painted the picture that ownership has to go above and beyond and change in order for him to stick around.

[ciueli]

You're still wrong about mortgaging, we would have kept Jonas on a reasonable contract the way Memphis did if we had not traded him. Jakob is not making a huge amount of money either and was RFA so we would have easily been able to keep him as well. We did the right thing to win a title but that was the price we paid, losing our future center depth when Marc and Serge left.

You still arent comprehending that we traded Jonas to get better which is why we got Marc and thus resulting in a championship. This isnt mortgaging the future. Its called smart team management because without Marc we werent winning. What dont you understand? According to you, we should have kept Jonas and not won a championship. Are you all there?

Next time you should read my entire post before replying. I've highlighted the relevant part in bold.

[WuTang_OG]

You're still wrong about mortgaging, we would have kept Jonas on a reasonable contract the way Memphis did if we had not traded him. Jakob is not making a huge amount of money either and was RFA so we would have easily been able to keep him as well. We did the right thing to win a title but that was the price we paid, losing our future center depth when Marc and Serge left.

You still arent comprehending that we traded Jonas to get better which is why we got Marc and thus resulting in a championship. This isnt mortgaging the future. Its called smart team management because without Marc we werent winning. What dont you understand? According to you, we should have kept Jonas and not won a championship. Are you all there?

Next time you should read my entire post before replying. I've highlighted the relevant part in bold.

Lol so then wtf are you trying argue? Spin your wheels jim. You cant be critisizing Masai for what you think is mortgaging the future then ackloweding it was the right move because we won lol. You’re lost.
Next time you gotta understand things better before you come on here trying to troll and pulling stuff from the sky We won while not mortgaging the future (trading JV for Marc was a home run move and in no way did we mortgage our future.

[ciueli]

You still arent comprehending that we traded Jonas to get better which is why we got Marc and thus resulting in a championship. This isnt mortgaging the future. Its called smart team management because without Marc we werent winning. What dont you understand? According to you, we should have kept Jonas and not won a championship. Are you all there?

Next time you should read my entire post before replying. I've highlighted the relevant part in bold.

Lol so then wtf are you trying argue? Spin your wheels jim. You cant be critisizing Masai for what you think is mortgaging the future then ackloweding it was the right move because we won lol. You’re lost.
Next time you gotta understand things better before you come on here trying to troll and pulling stuff from the sky We won while not mortgaging the future (trading JV for Marc was a home run move and in no way did we mortgage our future.

Finally you're right about something - why am I wasting my time trying to enlighten someone who doesn't even bother to read my replies? What I'm attempting to do is explain why Masai probably isn't coming back, the long and the short of it is that the Raptors are not in great shape with respect to the future due to the win now moves he made to win in 2019, and there's a long road ahead to get back to contention. Not exactly a place where a highly regarded front office executive whose services are in high demand wants to be.

[WuTang_OG]

Next time you should read my entire post before replying. I've highlighted the relevant part in bold.

Lol so then wtf are you trying argue? Spin your wheels jim. You cant be critisizing Masai for what you think is mortgaging the future then ackloweding it was the right move because we won lol. You’re lost.
Next time you gotta understand things better before you come on here trying to troll and pulling stuff from the sky We won while not mortgaging the future (trading JV for Marc was a home run move and in no way did we mortgage our future.

Finally you're right about something - why am I wasting my time trying to enlighten someone who doesn't even bother to read my replies? What I'm attempting to do is explain why Masai probably isn't coming back, the long and the short of it is that the Raptors are not in great shape with respect to the future due to the win now moves he made to win in 2019, and there's a long road ahead to get back to contention. Not exactly a place where a highly regarded front office executive whose services are in high demand wants to be.

Oh i’ve been right this whole time, you just choose to ignore the facts as i walked you through it. Now you admit they were the right moves yet you criticize. Laughable.

[2019nbachamps]

There is no way MLSE is being cheap. Let’s use some logic here:
1. Masai was already one of the highest paid execs in the NBA
2. MLSE granted Masai’s request to extend Bobby and Nurse. Nurse went from being a nobody to now making something like $8m a year. Nurse is the 3rd highest paid coach in the NBA. If Nurse is at $8m, what do you think MLSE has offered his boss? We can assume Masai has been offered one of the top 5 compensations among all NBA executives.
3. MLSE spends big bucks on the Leafs, TFC, etc. TFC had by far the biggest payroll in the MLS around the time we won an MLS title
4. It wasn’t MLSE that asked to wait until the end of the season. Masai is the one that made the request

Seems to me like Masai has made up his mind. He’ll let his contract end, wash his hands clean, then pursue his next opportunity. Unless they feel close to a deal, MLSE should start the hunt for Masai’s replacement. I think dudes here are also naive Masai won’t join another NBA team. He can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time (ie being an NBA exec and pursue the other causes near to his heart).

[Vampirate]

The fact that he hasn't re-signed yet has me worried (I wasn't before). MLSE is either cheaping out in typical Rogers/Bell fashion or he's legitimately considering a non-basketball career.

If he leaves, I just hope he doesn't take Dan with him. We need Bobby and Dan to make this work moving forward.

If he does leave and takes Dan with him, I hope Rogers and Bell go bankrupt (or rather, I'll wish for that more than I usually do).

It's possible he wants to hit FA to make Rogers pony up more. If he hits the open market, he might be hedging his bets that the threat of him leaving to another team would make MLSE give him what he wants. If he still is staying. Let's all keep in mind the negotiator that he is.

[rapluva]

Ok..here's my take on it..

Masai will stay, but maybe for a shorter deal.
I think he wants MLSE to look at the bigger picture, he may want a stake with MLSE to make some decisions on all the umbrella sports franchises. This whole Canadian tax thing ain't pretty to U.S players, which is why it's easier to get European players to play here over the U.S ones. They need to work something out with the league to assist players to come to Canada. Why do players want to play for Miami, it a the weather yes...but mainly it's the taxes. L.A is in Hollywood.. enough said.. there should be some compensation for the one team outside of the U.S. maybe he's fighting for this. He definitely wants to be the guy on that African league thing.

I think Masai will be back but on a shorter deal, as for our draft pick..come on..u really think he is making a decision based on where we pick in the draft. To build another championship team, we need more than what we have. We need a Beal..or Damian type player here to compete with the beasts in the East. Our system is good enough to outplay Philly, The Nets, Milwaukee and Miami .. only if we can get one star player on this current team of starters... We may lose Slim Duck..and maybe our room from last season..but we need a star player and our center position can be fixed via another trade or we go over the cap.

[Courtside]

OP needs to - kindly - STFU and GTFO with these trolling threads. Maybe one of the new mods would like to flex their muscles and help the board out?

[CAA]

The fact that he hasn't re-signed yet has me worried (I wasn't before). MLSE is either cheaping out in typical Rogers/Bell fashion or he's legitimately considering a non-basketball career.

Does anyone know the ins and outs of Exec contracts and if they need to officially wait until it expires (June 30) to have conversations with other teams? It's quite possible he'd want to wait to hear from others before making a decision.