Toronto Blue Jays (48-44) at New York Mets (50-43) - July 23-25

polo007 · Post #1 » by **polo007** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:31 pm

Read on Twitter

johanliebert · Post #2 » by **johanliebert** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:00 pm

It’s time to rejoice.

Kirk got the call up.

Randle McMurphy · Post #3 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:29 pm

johanliebert wrote:It’s time to rejoice.

Kirk got the call up.

I'll rejoice when I never have to watch Matz again. Him choking against his former team is exceptionally predictable.

GoRapstheoriginal · Post #4 » by **GoRapstheoriginal** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:37 pm

a half hearted GO JAYS GO.

Hottie McShotty · Post #5 » by **Hottie McShotty** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:15 am

This team is just not good enough to make a push for that wild card spot. It's young, flawed in many parts and will need to grow and learn from this. Let's enjoy this season for what it is, and hope next season will bring better results, a new manager, and improvements to the team through FA signings and trades.

Hugely disappointed with Bigio this season. I wasn't expecting him to be this bad. AVG, OBP, and SLG all down from last season. Instead of improving he's regressing.

Post #6 » by **JaysRule15** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:47 am

Bruh how are we letting this dude shut us out.

Hottie McShotty · Post #7 » by **Hottie McShotty** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:19 am

Bruh we making all these pitchers look like Cy Young candidates. This team just doesn't have it. Forget about being buyers. Don't mortgage the future and prospects for rentals. Semien and Ray can get us something decent. Start selling and start over again in 2022.

Randle McMurphy · Post #8 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:37 am

Can someone explain the rationale behind pinch hitting Valera over Gurriel down 2 in the 8th inning? Or is the manager just a moron?

Post #9 » by **JaysRule15** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:43 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:Can someone explain the rationale behind pinch hitting Valera over Gurriel down 2 in the 8th inning? Or is the manager just a moron?

Probably for the lefty on righty matchup. Not smart. But likely Charlie's rationale lol.

Randle McMurphy · Post #10 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:44 am

JaysRule15 wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Can someone explain the rationale behind pinch hitting Valera over Gurriel down 2 in the 8th inning? Or is the manager just a moron?

Probably for the lefty on righty matchup. Not smart. But likely Charlie's rationale lol.

I think you're right, but it probably would have looked better on him if he just forgot Lourdes was there lol

Randle McMurphy · Post #11 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:45 am

Two crushed liners right at OFs to start the 9th. Sounds about right.

guvernator · Post #12 » by **guvernator** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:53 am

Trade Semien, extend Ray and call up Smith.

Randle McMurphy · Post #13 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:08 am

guvernator wrote:Trade Semien, extend Ray and call up Smith.

They're going to do exactly none of those things.

Natural11 · Post #14 » by **Natural11** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:11 am

We're pretty good at mashing scrub teams to pad differential stats, but kind of bad at beating good teams. This team plays to its record quite well.

While it would be great to come back to Toronto after some trades and try to make a go of it, I think the smart move is to cut our losses, unload Semien, see if we can pawn Grichuk off on someone and just retool for next season.

Since June 1st we have played 9 series against teams with records over .500 and we have won just 1 of them.

Post #15 » by **Schad** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:40 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
guvernator wrote:Trade Semien, extend Ray and call up Smith.

They're going to do exactly none of those things.

I agree that none of those will happen. But we're about a 2-4 run away from trading Semien being reasonable, even though it's unlikely.

Randle McMurphy · Post #16 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:45 am

Schad wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
guvernator wrote:Trade Semien, extend Ray and call up Smith.

They're going to do exactly none of those things.

I agree that none of those will happen. But we're about a 2-4 run away from trading Semien being reasonable, even though it's unlikely.

I think you could argue it's already reasonable (depending on what they could get of course), but they'll never do it anyway.

Post #17 » by **Schad** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:53 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:I think you could argue it's already reasonable (depending on what they could get of course), but they'll never do it anyway.

I don't disagree. I don't expect it to happen, but if we end up 7 out of the WIld Card or something, it looks like a much more rational proposition.

Michael Bradley · Post #18 » by **Michael Bradley** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:16 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Schad wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:They're going to do exactly none of those things.

I agree that none of those will happen. But we're about a 2-4 run away from trading Semien being reasonable, even though it's unlikely.

I think you could argue it's already reasonable (depending on what they could get of course), but they'll never do it anyway.

Agreed. The division and the 1st WC isn't happening, and they are lumped into the 2nd WC race with a couple of teams trailing the A's by 5 games. They are pretty much already at a point where trading Semien and Ray (assuming the return is good) makes sense. Falling further back in the next few days would make it more obvious, but like you guys have said, it's not happening. If you can make one criticism of this front office, it's that they consistently hold on to talent for too long. A team like the Rays wheel and deal with no regard for what others think, but the Jays (partly/mostly due to Rogers) care so much about perception that it limits what they do. Getting two comp picks at the end of the season for Ray and Semien is the likeliest outcome as the team finishes around 82-85 wins.

Post #19 » by **Schad** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:20 pm

Michael Bradley wrote:
Agreed. The division and the 1st WC isn't happening, and they are lumped into the 2nd WC race with a couple of teams trailing the A's by 5 games. They are pretty much already at a point where trading Semien and Ray (assuming the return is good) makes sense. Falling further back in the next few days would make it more obvious, but like you guys have said, it's not happening. If you can make one criticism of this front office, it's that they consistently hold on to talent for too long. A team like the Rays wheel and deal with no regard for what others think, but the Jays (partly/mostly due to Rogers) care so much about perception that it limits what they do. Getting two comp picks at the end of the season for Ray and Semien is the likeliest outcome as the team finishes around 82-85 wins.

I'd be interested to know what the return might be, because the prices for rentals have fallen sharply in recent years, as teams have come to the realization that two months of one player really shouldn't be worth half your farm system. Value in trade would still more valuable than a Comp B pick certainly, and there's no such thing as too many prospects, especially if we plan to be hyper-aggressive in the offseason (as we should be).

Michael Bradley · Post #20 » by **Michael Bradley** » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:14 pm

Schad wrote:
Michael Bradley wrote:Agreed. The division and the 1st WC isn't happening, and they are lumped into the 2nd WC race with a couple of teams trailing the A's by 5 games. They are pretty much already at a point where trading Semien and Ray (assuming the return is good) makes sense. Falling further back in the next few days would make it more obvious, but like you guys have said, it's not happening. If you can make one criticism of this front office, it's that they consistently hold on to talent for too long. A team like the Rays wheel and deal with no regard for what others think, but the Jays (partly/mostly due to Rogers) care so much about perception that it limits what they do. Getting two comp picks at the end of the season for Ray and Semien is the likeliest outcome as the team finishes around 82-85 wins.

I'd be interested to know what the return might be, because the prices for rentals have fallen sharply in recent years, as teams have come to the realization that two months of one player really shouldn't be worth half your farm system. Value in trade would still more valuable than a Comp B pick certainly, and there's no such thing as too many prospects, especially if we plan to be hyper-aggressive in the offseason (as we should be).

The potential market for Semien would be interesting. Not sure what teams would offer, but I would imagine for a top 10 WAR player over the last two full MLB seasons, it would have to be better than a comp pick. The White Sox could use a 2B with Madrigal out and they have a clear window to contend right now, for example. Ray is a bit different since it's possible that they could re-sign him, he fits a clear need for the team beyond 2021, and there's no guarantee that he declines the QO (he probably will decline, but if he doesn't you get back a good SP on a one year deal, which wouldn't be a bad alternative). Semien will definitely decline, so the value is between a comp pick and a trade, as I'm sure they won't be paying him what he will want in free agency.

It's just a bit frustrating that again the Jays find themselves in a situation where it makes a lot of sense to sell talent at peak value and they'll be left with nothing to show for it. Of course, it's difficult to say that definitively without knowing what the offers are/would be.