rank the top seasons between lebron James and dwayne wade (2003-2008)

[falcolombardi]

2009 is the point where most start having lebron above wade but is very arguably that before that (granted part of it was beung older) wade was the better player for the start of their careers

how would you rank their seasons before lebron first mvp ?

[Colbinii]

2008 LeBron
2006 Wade

2006 LeBron
2007 LeBron

2005 LeBron
2005 Wade
2007 Wade (Injuries)

2008 Wade (Injuries)

2004 LeBron
2004 Wade

[Cavsfansince84]

Using my standard way of rating seasons I'd probably go
06 Wade
08 LeBron
06 LeBron
07 Wade(due to injuries or I'd have to third)

[Colbinii]

Using my standard way of rating seasons I'd probably go
06 Wade
08 LeBron
06 LeBron
07 Wade(due to injuries or I'd have to third)

How can you have 2007 Wade that high when he missed 30 games and was poor in the post-season. What is the rationale for 2007 Wade over LeBron?

[Cavsfansince84]

Using my standard way of rating seasons I'd probably go
06 Wade
08 LeBron
06 LeBron
07 Wade(due to injuries or I'd have to third)

How can you have 2007 Wade that high when he missed 30 games and was poor in the post-season. What is the rationale for 2007 Wade over LeBron?

To some degree I just think he was better. I don't feel like pre 08 LeBron had put it all together quite like Wade had by 06. In some ways Wade's game was simpler which allowed him to reach his potential faster(while being 2 years older) and he also got to play on better teams so wasn't being asked to do as much. So that's how I view them before 2009 though even in 09 Wade was close. Wade really could have been top 15 all time had he stayed healthy imo. I will say I think that LeBron in 04 was put in the toughest position of any player ever in the nba. Being 18, already pegged as a goat candidate by the media and being asked to be the savior of the worst team in the league with vets who didn't even want to cede control of the team to him at all. He grew so much just from year 1 to year 2. As a fan after his rookie year I wasn't sure how long it would take him to become a top player and then he just came out and put up 27/7/6 at 19/20 and it was like he never looked back.

[feyki]

ATG

05/07 Wade
08 Lebron

MVP


07 Lebron
06 Lebron

All-Nba


08 Wade
05 Lebron

.

[Jaivl]

08 James
06 Wade
05 Wade
07 James
06 James
05 James
07 Wade
04 Wade
04 James
08 Wade

[No-more-rings]

06 Wade
08 Lebron
07 James
06 James
05 Wade
05 James
07 Wade
04 Wade
04 James
08 Wade

I'd feel pretty comfortable with 07 Wade at #1 if it weren't for injuries, he led the league in PER and aside from maybe 09 that was the best 45-50 game stretch we've ever seen from him.

[Ron Swanson]

Don't know how anyone could put any pre-2009 version of Lebron over '06 Wade if we're including the postseason. In order:

06 Wade

08 Lebron
07 Lebron
06 Lebron
07 Wade
05 Lebron
05 Wade

04 Wade
08 Wade
04 Lebron

[s0ciety]

1. 2006 Wade
2. 2008 James
3. 2006 James
4. 2007 James
5. 2005 James
6. 2005 Wade
7. 2007 Wade
8. 2008 Wade
9. 2004 Wade
10. 2004 James

[Texas Chuck]

1. 2006 Wade
2. 2008 James
3. 2006 James
4. 2007 James
5. 2005 James
6. 2005 Wade
7. 2007 Wade
8. 2008 Wade
9. 2004 Wade
10. 2004 James

This feels right to me. Wade has the single best season, Lebron the single worst and everything else Lebron is better than everything else Wade.

[Im Your Father]

1. 2006 Wade
2. 2008 James
3. 2006 James
4. 2007 James
5. 2005 James
6. 2005 Wade
7. 2007 Wade
8. 2008 Wade
9. 2004 Wade
10. 2004 James

This feels right to me. Wade has the single best season, Lebron the single worst and everything else Lebron is better than everything else Wade.

Curious about how clear you think 05 is? I would lean Wade slightly but don’t have a strong opinion really.

Separately, I agree that 07 Wade would be tops absent injury, which is a real shame (obviously not that unusual for Wade though).

[Colbinii]

Don't know how anyone could put any pre-2009 version of Lebron over '06 Wade if we're including the postseason.

That is because you don't remember the 2008 post-season.

First, the 2008 Cavaliers outside of LeBron were terrible. The team finished, with LeBron, at -.53 SRS while LeBron was an 11 BPM/29 PER player and had a +10.9 On/Off. James missed 6 games this year, the record of Cleveland in those 6 games? 0-6.

Looking at the post-season, round 1 they face an equal team in Washington and the Cavaliers win 4-2 on the back of James leading his team in points, assists, rebounds, steals and block, all while supporting a near 3-1 assist/turnover ratio.

In round 2 the Cavaliers face off against a 9.30 SRS team, and after some quick math makes the difference in SRS 9.83. LeBron once again leads his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks but this time rocks a near 38% usage rate against arguably the best defense in the modern era of NBA basketball.

In Game 7 LeBron posts 45-6-7 in nearly 47 minutes as the Cavaliers play the Celtics to a tie in those minutes [The 1 minute LeBron sits the team gets outscored by 5 points].

To me, this series is simply more impressive than Wade's NBA Finals, given the level of competition on the opposition and level of play of teammates.

[Ron Swanson]

To me, this series is simply more impressive than Wade's NBA Finals, given the level of competition on the opposition and level of play of teammates.

I have zero interest in giving that much extra credit to a player just because their teammates were bad. Lebron's efficiency was atrocious in that series as well. FWIW Wade carried a +22.2 on/off net rating for the '06 postseason while Lebron had a +24.6 in '08. Wade had to go through the 6.24 SRS Pistons and the 5.96 SRS Mavs.

Lebron vs. the Celtics: 27/8/6/2/1 on 48% TS, 37.8% usage, 5.3 turnovers per game
Wade in the Finals: 35/8/4/3/1 on 57% TS, 36.9% usage, 3.6 turnovers per game

I mean, saying Lebron had a "more impressive" series than Wade's Finals is borderline ludicrous. You'd have a much easier argument saying that his '07 playoff run was better (it was but still not better than Wade's '06).

[Im Your Father]

Don't know how anyone could put any pre-2009 version of Lebron over '06 Wade if we're including the postseason.

That is because you don't remember the 2008 post-season.

First, the 2008 Cavaliers outside of LeBron were terrible. The team finished, with LeBron, at -.53 SRS while LeBron was an 11 BPM/29 PER player and had a +10.9 On/Off. James missed 6 games this year, the record of Cleveland in those 6 games? 0-6.

Looking at the post-season, round 1 they face an equal team in Washington and the Cavaliers win 4-2 on the back of James leading his team in points, assists, rebounds, steals and block, all while supporting a near 3-1 assist/turnover ratio.

In round 2 the Cavaliers face off against a 9.30 SRS team, and after some quick math makes the difference in SRS 9.83. LeBron once again leads his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks but this time rocks a near 38% usage rate against arguably the best defense in the modern era of NBA basketball.

In Game 7 LeBron posts 45-6-7 in nearly 47 minutes as the Cavaliers play the Celtics to a tie in those minutes [The 1 minute LeBron sits the team gets outscored by 5 points].

To me, this series is simply more impressive than Wade's NBA Finals, given the level of competition on the opposition and level of play of teammates.

Wade's ECF were even more impressive than his finals though (against a defensive dynasty). Although, I acknowledge that doesn't necessarily cut across your point.

Also, obviously Lebron was what made that Cleveland team go, I'm not disputing that (also FWIW I'm one of the people who sees the next year as Lebron's peak) but Lebron wasn't really any better of a shooter than young Wade in 08, nor had he reached his defensive peak yet and he had some pretty unimpressive scoring performances early in the series against Boston in games that were very close.

[Odinn21]

Season by season;
2004- Wade < James
2005- Wade > James
2006- Wade > James
2007- Wade < James
2008- Wade < James

Simply put, in the seasons when he was healthy Wade was a better player than James in those seasons.

Looking at PI and NPI RAPM numbers, Wade was definitely the more impactful player in 2004-06 span. Also I think that was pretty visible too.
Before going down with an injury, he was the player of the season so far in 2007. He was regarded ahead of Duncan, Nowitzki, Bryant and James and I can't say I disagree. Wade's 2008 season was utterly messed by injuries on multiple occasions though.
I mean we got to see how a healthy Wade compared to peak James around 2009-11. I don't think it's atrocious to make a case for Wade in here.

Tier 1; 2006 Wade > 2008 James
Tier 2; (a phantom pre-injury 2007 Wade) > 2007 James sitting alone in reality
Tier 3; 2006 James > 2005 Wade > 2005 James
Tier 4; 2007 Wade > 2008 Wade
Tier 5; 2004 James > 2004 Wade