LeBron in a Warriors (Kerr/Motion) Offense

fourtyounce48 · Post #1 » by **fourtyounce48** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:01 pm

LeBron James is considered to be either the #1 or #2 player in NBA history. His BBIQ is also considered to be the highest ever. His leadership and ability to make players around him better are also unquestioned.

My question is would his overall career accomplishments have been even higher than his already impressive resume if he'd have played in this type of system? Was it a failure of coaches to not put LeBron in the right system or was "LeBron ball" the most optimum system for his skill set?

Strepbacter · Post #2 » by **Strepbacter** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:03 pm

LeBum has never been interested in playing in a system.

He wants to hog the ball and get all the glory.

johanliebert · Post #3 » by **johanliebert** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:07 pm

You basketball philosophers have the worst questions.

dhsilv2 · Post #4 » by **dhsilv2** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:11 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:LeBron James is considered to be either the #1 or #2 player in NBA history. His BBIQ is also considered to be the highest ever. His leadership and ability to make players around him better are also unquestioned.

My question is would his overall career accomplishments have been even higher than his already impressive resume if he'd have played in this type of system? Was it a failure of coaches to not put LeBron in the right system or was "LeBron ball" the most optimum system for his skill set?

Yes and no...

You're asking if Lebron would better as a god level Draymond Green on offense vs James Harden. He'd be great either way. It's teammates that change the game.

Statlanta · Post #5 » by **Statlanta** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:12 pm

I don't think it would change his accomplishments.

He played in Miami's system somewhat off-ball and played without the ball in his first stint in Cleveland.

ATG players can play in any system, especially earlier in their careers when they are more impressionable.

fourtyounce48 · Post #6 » by **fourtyounce48** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:18 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
fourtyounce48 wrote:LeBron James is considered to be either the #1 or #2 player in NBA history. His BBIQ is also considered to be the highest ever. His leadership and ability to make players around him better are also unquestioned.

My question is would his overall career accomplishments have been even higher than his already impressive resume if he'd have played in this type of system? Was it a failure of coaches to not put LeBron in the right system or was "LeBron ball" the most optimum system for his skill set?

Yes and no...

You're asking if Lebron would better as a god level Draymond Green on offense vs James Harden. He'd be great either way. It's teammates that change the game.

I get the God Level Draymond role. Why didn't he have the opportunity to play such a role? I understand it wouldn't be Curry or Klay that he would be able to play with but he's played with other superstars before. Why not a combination of Lowry and Bradley types, since he'd be the Draymond with scoring. Lebron is smart too so I wonder why he didn't ask management to put a system like that for him when he was recruiting other stars to play with him.

warriorschamps · Post #7 » by **warriorschamps** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:22 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
fourtyounce48 wrote:LeBron James is considered to be either the #1 or #2 player in NBA history. His BBIQ is also considered to be the highest ever. His leadership and ability to make players around him better are also unquestioned.

My question is would his overall career accomplishments have been even higher than his already impressive resume if he'd have played in this type of system? Was it a failure of coaches to not put LeBron in the right system or was "LeBron ball" the most optimum system for his skill set?

Yes and no...

You're asking if Lebron would better as a god level Draymond Green on offense vs James Harden. He'd be great either way. It's teammates that change the game.

I get the God Level Draymond role. Why didn't he have the opportunity to play such a role? I understand it wouldn't be Curry or Klay that he would be able to play with but he's played with other superstars before. Why not a combination of Lowry and Bradley types, since he'd be the Draymond with scoring. Lebron is smart too so I wonder why he didn't ask management to put a system like that for him when he was recruiting other stars to play with him.

The problem with a "God Level Draymond" role for Lebron is Draymond is primarily looking to set others up to score. I don't think Lebron wanted any part of that.

walk with me · Post #8 » by **walk with me** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:22 pm

Lebron would have kerr fired after 1.5 seasons

Big J · Post #9 » by **Big J** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:25 pm

Draymond makes quick reads and passes the ball, Lebron likes to hold onto the ball and survey the scene before making his move. It wouldn't work.

WESCO · Post #10 » by **WESCO** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:25 pm

Possibly even GOAT'er

fourtyounce48 · Post #11 » by **fourtyounce48** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:26 pm

warriorschamps wrote:
fourtyounce48 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Yes and no...

You're asking if Lebron would better as a god level Draymond Green on offense vs James Harden. He'd be great either way. It's teammates that change the game.

I get the God Level Draymond role. Why didn't he have the opportunity to play such a role? I understand it wouldn't be Curry or Klay that he would be able to play with but he's played with other superstars before. Why not a combination of Lowry and Bradley types, since he'd be the Draymond with scoring. Lebron is smart too so I wonder why he didn't ask management to put a system like that for him when he was recruiting other stars to play with him.

The problem with a "God Level Draymond" role for Lebron is Draymond is primarily looking to set others up to score. I don't think Lebron wanted any part of that.

I can see that as well. The Warriors' offense is a lot of motion and passing. Although Lebron was a playmaker himself it was more on his terms as a ball-dominant Point Forward.

fourtyounce48 · Post #12 » by **fourtyounce48** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:28 pm

Big J wrote:Draymond makes quick reads and passes the ball, Lebron likes to hold onto the ball and survey the scene before making his move. It wouldn't work.

I agree so perhaps Lebron would have been resistant to playing in an offense like that rather than being capable to play that way. He had the playmaking skills but didn't have the interest or mentality to play that way.

trickshot · Post #13 » by **trickshot** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:41 pm

Motion offense isn't an instant upgrade on every version of superstar ball. There are pros and cons. Kerr might be my fav coach amd it hasn't been easy seeing people trash his system the last 2 years. Which leads to one of the cons with systems, that is it can look really ugly with the wrong pieces. Oubre and Bazemore making decisions had people calling Kerr overrated. A pro with superstar ball is taking the decisionmaking away from inferior players. Your floor tends to be constant year after year.

nfmos · Post #14 » by **nfmos** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:42 pm

There was a great interview with Draymond where they ask a question of what is Stephs defining characteristic and Draymond said it’s humility. It’s what allows him to not have to hog the ball or the spotlight, what allowed him to be ok with KD coming and sharing the spotlight with him, and what allows him to focus as much on his off ball moves as on ball moves and also really put the team above himself. And not just on the floor, his personality sets the tone that no one person is above the others especially which demands everyone else acts the same way.

Lebron obviously is amazing but his personality and playing style is just really different. Lebron feels he has to save the team, steph wants to strengthen and empower each teammate because he doesn’t need it to be all about him. That fundamental difference between them is why I don’t think Lebron would ever run this system even though with his basketball iq he would be amazing at it.

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trickshot · Post #15 » by **trickshot** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:46 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:
Big J wrote:Draymond makes quick reads and passes the ball, Lebron likes to hold onto the ball and survey the scene before making his move. It wouldn't work.

I agree so perhaps Lebron would have been resistant to playing in an offense like that rather than being capable to play that way. He had the playmaking skills but didn't have the interest or mentality to play that way.

This is apples and oranges. Draymond has to attack quick because a lot of his playmaking is enhanced by Curry's gravity. The opportunity is significantly reduced if you miss a cut or a curl and let the defense reset. It's a different kettle of fish with star playmakers who have to force help defenses to get teammates open. It's different but the latter is very useful in halfcourt possessions. Ideally you want both imo. The 2016 finals being the purest clash of styles.

warriorschamps · Post #16 » by **warriorschamps** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:47 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:
Big J wrote:Draymond makes quick reads and passes the ball, Lebron likes to hold onto the ball and survey the scene before making his move. It wouldn't work.

I agree so perhaps Lebron would have been resistant to playing in an offense like that rather than being capable to play that way. He had the playmaking skills but didn't have the interest or mentality to play that way.

Yep even KD who is a great shooter got tired and frustrated playing in Kerr system because he wanted to go iso heavy. So Lebron who wasn't anywhere near the shooter KD was especially when he came in the league would have tried to get Kerr fired pretty quick imo.

Whereas Kerr motion offense is "perfect" for Steph because it takes advantage of what he is already great at, shooting and moving without the ball. Plus Steph is so unselfish he doesn't mind not having the ball in his hands all the time. It's "perfect" for Draymond as well because he isn't looking to score, he is looking to set his teammates up and he is a really good decision maker.

What's make the Warriors so good is not only are they a talented, high IQ group BUT most importantly they are an unselfish group that put the team before themselves.

Lebron maybe the most talented player to ever step on a basketball court but he isn't exactly a guy whose been known to put the team above himself.

Warriorfan · Post #17 » by **Warriorfan** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:25 pm

If LeBron played with the warriors he has more championships but would not have a shot to be all time scoring leader which I think he values

Post #18 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:32 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:LeBron James is considered to be either the #1 or #2 player in NBA history. His BBIQ is also considered to be the highest ever. His leadership and ability to make players around him better are also unquestioned.

My question is would his overall career accomplishments have been even higher than his already impressive resume if he'd have played in this type of system? Was it a failure of coaches to not put LeBron in the right system or was "LeBron ball" the most optimum system for his skill set?

I think "LeBron ball" aka heliocentricism aka "playing like Magic Johnson" was always best for him. Playing in that approach allows the star to make as many of the decisions for his team as possible, so it just plain makes sense for guys like that who are so good at scoring and passing but cannot run like more normal sized people.

Post #19 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:37 pm

fourtyounce48 wrote:I get the God Level Draymond role. Why didn't he have the opportunity to play such a role? I understand it wouldn't be Curry or Klay that he would be able to play with but he's played with other superstars before. Why not a combination of Lowry and Bradley types, since he'd be the Draymond with scoring. Lebron is smart too so I wonder why he didn't ask management to put a system like that for him when he was recruiting other stars to play with him.

There's really no reason to see Draymond's role as something for LeBron to aspire to in general, because that means LeBron scoring less and worse scorers scoring more.

Closer to the mark would be Jokic, but that still takes away use of much of LeBron's explosion, and I'll just flat out say that LeBron's passing IQ isn't on Jokic's level.

LivingLegend · Post #20 » by **LivingLegend** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:42 pm

What your missing is that Lebron IS the system with his style. His system led to 9 NBA Finals appearances in 10 years. Which I don't think is talked about nearly enough for how absolutely ridiculous that is. (Seriously though stop for a second and think about how ridiculous that is)

He is the best combination of scoring/playmaking this league has ever seen, so why would you NOT want the ball in his hands and have him play off-ball?

Lebron playing in a motion offense wouldn't be maximizing the team. It would be like putting 87 gas in a Ferrari.