Better Defensively: Gary Payton or Jason Kidd

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:46 am

celticfan42487 · Post #2 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:49 am

Payton in reality, but with the no strength or physicality era of the NBA like we've had the past 10-15 years it would be Kidd.

Payton wouldn't be the glove if he couldn't touch other people and put a body on a guy. He'd still be good but it's hard to say how good he'd be on that end without it being legal for him to play defense.

Lockdown504090 · Post #3 » by **Lockdown504090** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:10 am

celticfan42487 wrote:Payton in reality, but with the no strength or physicality era of the NBA like we've had the past 10-15 years it would be Kidd.

Payton wouldn't be the glove if he couldn't touch other people and put a body on a guy. He'd still be good but it's hard to say how good he'd be on that end without it being legal for him to play defense.

Your logic is sound. But I’ll take the one who can defend Michael Jordan

K3nny Pow3rs · Post #4 » by **K3nny Pow3rs** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:23 am

Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson all tried to guard 38-year-old Michael Jordan, and he still dropped 45 points on their #1 seeded Nets.
MJ also had 10 rebounds and 7 assists, and scored 22 consecutive points, as the Wizards rolled to a 98-76 victory.
And this was 2 nights after MJ had dropped 51 on Charlotte.

Maverick41 · Post #5 » by **Maverick41** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:45 am

Both have 9 all defensive team selections with Payton edging out Kidd since all 9 were 1st team for him as opposed to Kidds 4 1st and 5 2nds.

Imo Gary Payton is a better all time defender. In today's era because of no handchecking and the constant amount of switching, I take Kidd though because he can legimately guard 1-3 and even some of the smaller 4s.

DroseReturnChi · Post #6 » by **DroseReturnChi** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:49 am

payton he brought fear to mj.

whatisacenter · Post #7 » by **whatisacenter** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:00 am

I got to go with GP but no shade to Kidd the player.

ropjhk · Post #8 » by **ropjhk** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:09 am

Payton is probably the greatest defensive player at his height (6-4) or shorter.

God Squad · Post #9 » by **God Squad** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:14 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:payton he brought fear to mj.

Michael Jordan averaged 30.5 points, 7.9 rebounds and 3.7 assists in 15 games versus Gary Payton or Gary Payton in his career. With shooting splits of 47%fg 87% ft with a +/- of +20. I wouldn't say he brought fear to MJ lol. But he did as well as anyone could have.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/michael_jordan_vs_gary_payton.htm

rand · Post #10 » by **rand** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:24 am

Different kinds of defenders. GP was the classic 'lockdown defender' who could play the spectacular 1-on-1 defense against the most dangerous guards, which is how he got his moniker "The Glove". Kidd was the more cerebral team defender (and virtuoso transition defender) who could play very good on-ball defense but whose calling cards were versatility and elite help defense. Not surprisingly, Kidd's defensive game aged much better as at age 37 we still saw him averaging 1.9 SPG in Dallas' title run and being intentionally matched up against a 26 year old LeBron in the mid-post.

I'd say GP was the better defensive player back in the more ISO heavy 90s and Kidd would be the better defensive player today, but they're both in the top tier of ATG defensive PGs.

FreeThrowLine · Post #11 » by **FreeThrowLine** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:00 am

Watch on YouTube

BoatsNZones · Post #12 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:22 am

Both Oakland/SF Bay Area born and raised ballers. Legends where I was from growing up. Can't go wrong and I refuse to choose.

GregOden · Post #13 » by **GregOden** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:51 am

Jason would be better defensively in the modern era. Hes getting you extra posessions with the rebounding he brings. His game also aged better than Gary's.

Lalouie · Post #14 » by **Lalouie** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 am

payton clearly has the better gene pool

Winsome Gerbil · Post #15 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:46 am

I don't think this is particularly close. JKidd was a strong defender for a long time, but Payton was a huge impact defender. He was a Tony Allen of PGs, or more the other way around since Payon was better. A guy who locked you up, and would yabber in your ear all night about how he was locking you up. He wasn't just an impediment, he was a game changing menace out there.

dans1230 · Post #16 » by **dans1230** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:41 pm

Kidd was a plus defender, GP was a lockdown defender. Honestly it's not even real close.

OdomFan · Post #17 » by **OdomFan** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:45 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Payton in reality, but with the no strength or physicality era of the NBA like we've had the past 10-15 years it would be Kidd.

Payton wouldn't be the glove if he couldn't touch other people and put a body on a guy. He'd still be good but it's hard to say how good he'd be on that end without it being legal for him to play defense.

That's insulting the mans intelligence. Give him some time to learn how the game rules and such are played and he'd adapt just fine after a little while.

OdomFan · Post #18 » by **OdomFan** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:47 pm

Payton was a more skilled defensive player imo, but if I'm a coach I'd rather Kidd run my squad at both ends. Plus with him you get an additional good rebounder. Something he was better than GP at.

Dutchball97 · Post #19 » by **Dutchball97** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:59 pm

Threads like this remind me how few people on the general board even look at +- minus data. Kidd consistently ranks as one of the top defensive guards. Payton, while still a clearly positive defender, doesn't really come close to matching Kidd's defensive impact.

timecop · Post #20 » by **timecop** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:39 pm

kidd shut down lebron in 2011