TMac and Kyrie are not top 75 NBA ?

Klayforspicy · Post #1 » by **Klayforspicy** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:28 pm

Is that not bizarre to anyone else ? does it have to with games played ? because thats the only way I could justify a guy like Lillard qualifying over them ?

Is Kyrie blackballed from NBA ceremony ?

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The Explorer · Post #2 » by **The Explorer** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:30 pm

I think the bigger miss is AD over Pau Gasol.

Post #3 » by **Duffman100** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:35 pm

Look at Kyrie's last 4-5 years... There's just no way.

To me Dwight is a bigger miss. As if people forget how good he was.

Yeggo Poleggo · Post #4 » by **Yeggo Poleggo** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:58 pm

Love Melo, but im getting in over TMac, Pau Gasol is absolutely insane.

rand · Post #5 » by **rand** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:03 pm

Let's take the cases separately.

Dame vs Kyrie
Kyrie has one more All-Star berth but Dame has double the All-NBA selections (6-3) and was once 1st team which Kyrie has never been. Kyrie has a title and 3 Finals berths but all of them as the #2. Dame has a huge lead in stat volume, illustrated by his 95-70 lead in career win shares, and better peak stats.

Dame vs TMac
TMac has one more All-Star berth and one more All-NBA selection and bigger peak stats, but of course never got out of the first round while Dame led the Blazers to the semis twice and the WCF once. They're almost tied in career win shares (97-95) despite Dame still being 5 seasons behind. The case looks close now, but it won't by the time Dame's career is over.

Lillard also has two series winning buzzer beaters, one of them (vs OKC) in a game where he dropped 50.

jokeboy86 · Post #6 » by **jokeboy86** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:05 pm

As far as Lillard over Kyrie it's a non-starter because not only does Kyrie lack the team success as a team's best player that Lillard has but he's behind in All-NBA teams as well. Lillard is the 3rd greatest player in his franchise's history and the only two guys above him are first ballot HOF'ers. I don't even know if Cavs fans would put Irving over Price or Daughtery and that's with Irving making a championship winning shot.

I think T-Mac is penalized for his lack of playoff success which is unfortunate because he was just flat out unlucky in that he was partnered with Yao and Grant Hill who never could stay healthy. I personally think T-Mac was better than Pierce and Melo but that's just me.

The biggest problems I will always have with this list is AD making it and Dwight Howard not making it. AD making this list is clearly about the Lakers bias that the list shows because if AD does not win a title with the Lakers he probably has no basis making this list. AD maybe one of most skilled big men we've ever seen but he simply does not have the team resume that Dwight has. Also think of this, Davis has been in the league 10 years and Jokic 7 and Jokic has already eclipsed him and he's just getting started but yet Jokic isn't on this list.

Klayforspicy · Post #7 » by **Klayforspicy** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:07 pm

Yeggo Poleggo wrote:Love Melo, but im getting in over TMac, Pau Gasol is absolutely insane.

I would put Melo over T-Mac even though T-Mac was much more well-rounded

Liam_Gallagher · Post #8 » by **Liam_Gallagher** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:08 pm

We're seriously gonna ignore the fact that Vince Carter isn't in the top 75?

Freighttrain · Post #9 » by **Freighttrain** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:09 pm

The voters disrespecting Dwight because of his personality whilst failing to see his accomplishments is more 'bizarre' than discussions about Kyrie or T-Mac in the top 75 if anything. The guy has more rebounds than Hakeem or Shaq, was a 3-time DPOY, 8-time All-NBA, and led a team to finals as the only superstar on his team, beating a prime LeBron. The voters should be ashamed.

Klayforspicy · Post #10 » by **Klayforspicy** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:09 pm

Liam_Gallagher wrote:We're seriously gonna ignore the fact that Vince Carter isn't in the top 75?

Hes not ??

MoMan24 · Post #11 » by **MoMan24** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:10 pm

T-Mac like Grant Hill was a show in but injuries have ruined his chances. Also T-Mac has never gotten past the 1st round which is a major indictment when trying to be an all-time great. Same for Kyrie his impact on winning is not visible. Greatness is making your teammates better. Kyrie does not and playing with LeBron at the peak of his powers does not mean your top 75, it means your blessed for the opportunity to be linked to a GOAT candidate kinda like Pippen was. Top 75 to me means are you an MVP level player, or do you impact winning, or do you make teammates better, or do you have a long career as an all-star caliber player. Kyrie has not played long enough and T-Mac's career was cut short. Kawai got in young cause he has 2 rings, 2 Finals MVP's, 2 DOPYs, multiple All-NBA and All-Defensive. He is clearly on another tier. Dwight was robbed of his place on that list and that is really the only name basketball purists should be talking about not T-Mac or Kyrie. Everyone who was not on the list we can argue about. Dwight should have been in period.

jokeboy86 · Post #12 » by **jokeboy86** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:13 pm

Liam_Gallagher wrote:We're seriously gonna ignore the fact that Vince Carter isn't in the top 75?

Yes. 2 All-NBA teams in 22 seasons ain't a good look. Plus Pierce, T-Mac, and Melo were easily better so there's that.

HeartDonor · Post #13 » by **HeartDonor** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:14 pm

AD, Melo, and Lillard
should NOT have made it over the likes of:

Vince Carter
Tracy McGrady
Dwight Howard
Klay Thompson
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol

Liam_Gallagher · Post #14 » by **Liam_Gallagher** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:20 pm

Freighttrain wrote:The voters disrespecting Dwight because of his personality whilst failing to see his accomplishments is more 'bizarre' than discussions about Kyrie or T-Mac in the top 75 if anything. The guy has more rebounds than Hakeem or Shaq, was a 3-time DPOY, 8-time All-NBA, and led a team to finals as the only superstar on his team, beating a prime LeBron. The voters should be ashamed.

The second half of Dwight's career was too mediocre for him to be in the top 75. Overall his career is similar to Mutumbo's - never dominant offensively, but elite defensively. Mutumbo had more longevity but wasn't as elite early on in his career.

By 33 Dwight became a role player on the '20 Lakers, and the year before he was waived and never picked up. Not top 75 IMO.

jokeboy86 · Post #15 » by **jokeboy86** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:28 pm

Liam_Gallagher wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:The voters disrespecting Dwight because of his personality whilst failing to see his accomplishments is more 'bizarre' than discussions about Kyrie or T-Mac in the top 75 if anything. The guy has more rebounds than Hakeem or Shaq, was a 3-time DPOY, 8-time All-NBA, and led a team to finals as the only superstar on his team, beating a prime LeBron. The voters should be ashamed.

The second half of Dwight's career was too mediocre for him to be in the top 75. Overall his career is similar to Mutumbo's - never dominant offensively, but elite defensively. Mutumbo had more longevity but wasn't as elite early on in his career.

By 33 Dwight became a role player on the '20 Lakers, and the year before he was waived and never picked up. Not top 75 IMO.

Wait let me understand something. You think VC, who never finished top 10 in MVP voting is a top 75 player and compare Mutumbo(who also never finished top 10 in MVP votes) to Dwight who finished top 5 4x and was 2nd one year? Dwight was the best player on teams that were putting up 50 win seasons. When have VC and Mutumbo ever done that?

Lalouie · Post #16 » by **Lalouie** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:35 pm

you think kyrie's handles is enough??

cuz thats the only way he gets in

DarkAzcura · Post #17 » by **DarkAzcura** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:44 pm

Liam_Gallagher wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:The voters disrespecting Dwight because of his personality whilst failing to see his accomplishments is more 'bizarre' than discussions about Kyrie or T-Mac in the top 75 if anything. The guy has more rebounds than Hakeem or Shaq, was a 3-time DPOY, 8-time All-NBA, and led a team to finals as the only superstar on his team, beating a prime LeBron. The voters should be ashamed.

The second half of Dwight's career was too mediocre for him to be in the top 75. Overall his career is similar to Mutumbo's - never dominant offensively, but elite defensively. Mutumbo had more longevity but wasn't as elite early on in his career.

By 33 Dwight became a role player on the '20 Lakers, and the year before he was waived and never picked up. Not top 75 IMO.

You think VC deserves it but not Dwight? Haha, Dwight has accomplished FAR more in the NBA than Vince. Not even a comparison.

LAL1947 · Post #18 » by **LAL1947** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm

What about Joe Dumars?

2× NBA champion (1989, 1990)
1x NBA Finals MVP (1989)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1989, 1990, 1992, 1993)

I think that's a bigger miss than Kyrie, Pau Gasol, Vince, T-Mac (listed in order of least to most deserving). Maybe just as deserving as Dwight.

Not2BeBothered · Post #19 » by **Not2BeBothered** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:57 pm

Multiple issues with the “top 75”
1st it not really the top 75 it was the original top 50 + 25 more players.
Dame definitely made this list prematurely
I’m not sure if Kyrie should be on it but I do know that the nba was running promos for Kyrie when they announced it as if he did make it. Klay, Dwight, Pau, Tmac, should of all been on ahead of Dame or AD.

scrabbarista · Post #20 » by **scrabbarista** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:58 pm

Based on total careers so far (no projections, not concerned with peaks or later-era players generally being better)

Dwight's the biggest miss. Pau should 100% be in.

T-Mac is a coinflip/borderline case. Same for Melo.

Lillard - No
Kyrie - No
Vince - No
Dumars - No
Klay - No

Kyrie and Klay probably aren't even top 150, to be honest.

AD is tricky, but I'd probably go with yes. Generally - sorry, but it's true - bigs have always been most impactful on average. Nothing like a do-it-all wing, of course, but those players are very rare.