People were interested in these podcasts

Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules

Moderators: Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers, Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe

Should we change any of the rules related to expansion teams?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 9, 2022 8:25 pm

Yes - change amount of players protected
0
No votes
Yes - change which players can be protected (e.g. UFA bird rights)
2
13%
Yes - change cap rules
1
6%
Yes - change NBA draft rules
0
No votes
No, let's keep this per the CBA rules
13
81%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#1 » by babyjax13 » Wed Apr 6, 2022 8:25 pm

Let's talk about expansion rules! If you want to propose a change not listed in the poll please propose it here, and if you select a change in the poll, please describe it. e.g. if you want to change how many players are protected, what is the number? If you want to change who gets selected, e.g. including UFA bird rights, say that!

I am allowing re-voting and going to keep this up for a few days : )

TLDR (still long):
1. Expansion teams select between 14-29 players
2. Teams protect a maximum of 8 players under contract or who are RFAs, BUT if they have less players under contract must leave at least one unprotected
3. Unrestricted free agents can't be selected, players who have not exercised ETOs or player options by the end of the day of the expansion draft can be selected
4. Teams that lose a player in the expansion draft receive a TPE
5. Teams can offer incentives (picks, etc.) to teams for selecting or not selecting a player in the expansion draft
6. Expansion teams have a hard cap in their first year of 80% of the salary cap, and 90% in their second year
7. Expansion teams can only select one player from each NBA team, so once you select one player from a roster, you can't select another
8. NBA draft: one expansion team receives the 5th pick, the other the 6th (coin flip) and in the second the loser of the flip receives the 37th pick and the winner receives the 38th pick (draft position is negotiated, Charlotte received the 4th pick when they expanded. I assume that the top 4 would be off-limits this year, but we can discuss)


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q114
4. How does it work when the league expands? Can the league also contract?
To supply an expansion team with its initial complement of players, the league holds an expansion draft1 prior to that year's NBA draft. Existing teams are allowed to protect up to eight players (including restricted free agents) from being selected in the expansion draft, but every team must expose at least one player who can't possibly become a free agent as the result of the exercise or non-exercise of an option or ETO. Unrestricted free agents can neither be protected from nor selected in the expansion draft, and are essentially ignored. Restricted free agents (see question number 42) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came). No team may lose more than one player in an expansion draft.

Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 57). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for an expansion team to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere).

If a team is over the cap and loses a contracted player (not a restricted free agent) to an expansion team, they receive a trade exception (see question number 87) equivalent to the selected player's salary.

Existing teams are allowed to compensate expansion teams (usually with draft picks), in exchange for selecting or not selecting particular players in the expansion draft. For example, in the 1995 expansion draft (when Vancouver & Toronto entered the league), Orlando left Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Avent, Rodney Dent and Geert Hammink unprotected, but did not want to lose either Armstrong or Hammink. They gave Vancouver their 1996 second round pick in exchange for Vancouver selecting Dent with the second pick in the expansion draft. With Dent selected by Vancouver, Armstrong and Hammink became ineligible.

It is also common to see teams leave a desirable player unprotected, hoping that the player's age and/or high salary will dissuade the expansion team from selecting him. This allows those teams to protect an additional player whom they might have been more likely to lose. Or in some cases, they might dangle a high-priced player hoping the expansion team takes him off their hands.

Expansion teams have a lower salary cap for the first two years of their existence. In their first year, their salary cap is 80% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. In their second year, it's 90% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. Beginning with their third season, they have the same salary cap as the other teams. Their minimum team salary (see question number 14) is also lower by a commensurate amount.

Expansion teams often have restrictions placed on their draft position in their first few seasons. For example, Charlotte was assigned the #4 pick in the 2004 NBA draft, and Vancouver & Toronto could not receive the #1 pick in the NBA draft for their first four seasons in the league.

If an expansion team drafts a player in the expansion draft and waives him prior to the first day of the season, then that player's salary does not count toward team salary (although they still have to pay him). This provides some protection against bad decisions made in the expansion draft -- an expansion team could select a player, later decide they don't really want him, and waive him without their team salary being negatively affected.

Most league calculations (average salary, total benefits, total salaries, BRI, salary cap) simply ignore expansion teams (and the players on those teams) for two years. For example, the league calculates the average salary by adding up the team salaries for every team, and dividing by an amount equal to the number of teams times 13.2 (see question number 31). For this calculation the total of the team salaries does not include team salaries from expansion teams in their first two seasons, nor does the number of teams.

Basketball Related Income (BRI) does not include the fee expansion teams pay to join the league.

The league also reserves the right to contract (reduce the number of teams in the league) if necessary. The league needs to provide the players association with written notice of any decision to contract, and the two sides will negotiate to agree on the effects of contraction on the players and the procedures to be followed.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#2 » by babyjax13 » Wed Apr 6, 2022 8:26 pm

FWIW I think that UFAs should be included in the expansion draft but that the number of players teams protect should not change. This greatly increases the quality of the pool of available players without, I think, being too onerous. That said, I am happy with just about any format.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 45,496
And1: 26,048
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#3 » by loserX » Wed Apr 6, 2022 8:33 pm

My preference is to keep the CBA rules, but I'm not married to that and am happy to play however the board decides.

For me the problem are the FA cap holds: if those count against the expansion teams' cap, then the teams can run out of space pretty quickly. Unless we assume they all have Bird rights so the teams can go over the cap with them? Sounds like it might get messy.
User avatar
HornetJail
RealGM
Posts: 46,096
And1: 13,859
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Location: MARK WILLIAMS IS BACK MWUAHAHAHAHA
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#4 » by HornetJail » Wed Apr 6, 2022 8:34 pm

good with how things are. The Bobcats only got 60 and 75% of the cap in the first two years, so 80 and 90% is a nice, much needed jump. I would be quite annoyed if the new teams get to take other teams' 7th and 8th best players, it would be such a huge leg up from what Charlotte had.
investigate Adam Silver
Godaddycurse
RealGM
Posts: 21,180
And1: 13,219
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#5 » by Godaddycurse » Wed Apr 6, 2022 8:41 pm

is this before or after FA? I think teams should have to select/protect their pending UFA's to keep bird rights
User avatar
HornetJail
RealGM
Posts: 46,096
And1: 13,859
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Location: MARK WILLIAMS IS BACK MWUAHAHAHAHA
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#6 » by HornetJail » Wed Apr 6, 2022 9:01 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:is this before or after FA? I think teams should have to select/protect their pending UFA's to keep bird rights

doesn't really make sense to me. these expansion teams have ~$100M in cap to use, the only time Bird Rights would change anything for them is if they're about to offer a max contract or want a 5 year deal instead of 4. The player would still have to agree to sign with them over the other 30 teams, which obviously you can't know pre-draft without tampering. Aside from purposefully weakening your competition, no real reason to have this.
investigate Adam Silver
Knickfan1982
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,913
And1: 2,184
Joined: Mar 19, 2016
       

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#7 » by Knickfan1982 » Thu Apr 7, 2022 2:00 am

babyjax13 wrote:Let's talk about expansion rules! If you want to propose a change not listed in the poll please propose it here, and if you select a change in the poll, please describe it. e.g. if you want to change how many players are protected, what is the number? If you want to change who gets selected, e.g. including UFA bird rights, say that!

I am allowing re-voting and going to keep this up for a few days : )

TLDR (still long):
1. Expansion teams select between 14-29 players
2. Teams protect a maximum of 8 players under contract or who are RFAs, BUT if they have less players under contract must leave at least one unprotected
3. Unrestricted free agents can't be selected, players who have not exercised ETOs or player options by the end of the day of the expansion draft can be selected
4. Teams that lose a player in the expansion draft receive a TPE
5. Teams can offer incentives (picks, etc.) to teams for selecting or not selecting a player in the expansion draft
6. Expansion teams have a hard cap in their first year of 80% of the salary cap, and 90% in their second year
7. Expansion teams can only select one player from each NBA team, so once you select one player from a roster, you can't select another
8. NBA draft: one expansion team receives the 5th pick, the other the 6th (coin flip) and in the second the loser of the flip receives the 37th pick and the winner receives the 38th pick (draft position is negotiated, Charlotte received the 4th pick when they expanded. I assume that the top 4 would be off-limits this year, but we can discuss)


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q114
4. How does it work when the league expands? Can the league also contract?
To supply an expansion team with its initial complement of players, the league holds an expansion draft1 prior to that year's NBA draft. Existing teams are allowed to protect up to eight players (including restricted free agents) from being selected in the expansion draft, but every team must expose at least one player who can't possibly become a free agent as the result of the exercise or non-exercise of an option or ETO. Unrestricted free agents can neither be protected from nor selected in the expansion draft, and are essentially ignored. Restricted free agents (see question number 42) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came). No team may lose more than one player in an expansion draft.

Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 57). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for an expansion team to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere).

If a team is over the cap and loses a contracted player (not a restricted free agent) to an expansion team, they receive a trade exception (see question number 87) equivalent to the selected player's salary.

Existing teams are allowed to compensate expansion teams (usually with draft picks), in exchange for selecting or not selecting particular players in the expansion draft. For example, in the 1995 expansion draft (when Vancouver & Toronto entered the league), Orlando left Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Avent, Rodney Dent and Geert Hammink unprotected, but did not want to lose either Armstrong or Hammink. They gave Vancouver their 1996 second round pick in exchange for Vancouver selecting Dent with the second pick in the expansion draft. With Dent selected by Vancouver, Armstrong and Hammink became ineligible.

It is also common to see teams leave a desirable player unprotected, hoping that the player's age and/or high salary will dissuade the expansion team from selecting him. This allows those teams to protect an additional player whom they might have been more likely to lose. Or in some cases, they might dangle a high-priced player hoping the expansion team takes him off their hands.

Expansion teams have a lower salary cap for the first two years of their existence. In their first year, their salary cap is 80% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. In their second year, it's 90% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. Beginning with their third season, they have the same salary cap as the other teams. Their minimum team salary (see question number 14) is also lower by a commensurate amount.

Expansion teams often have restrictions placed on their draft position in their first few seasons. For example, Charlotte was assigned the #4 pick in the 2004 NBA draft, and Vancouver & Toronto could not receive the #1 pick in the NBA draft for their first four seasons in the league.

If an expansion team drafts a player in the expansion draft and waives him prior to the first day of the season, then that player's salary does not count toward team salary (although they still have to pay him). This provides some protection against bad decisions made in the expansion draft -- an expansion team could select a player, later decide they don't really want him, and waive him without their team salary being negatively affected.

Most league calculations (average salary, total benefits, total salaries, BRI, salary cap) simply ignore expansion teams (and the players on those teams) for two years. For example, the league calculates the average salary by adding up the team salaries for every team, and dividing by an amount equal to the number of teams times 13.2 (see question number 31). For this calculation the total of the team salaries does not include team salaries from expansion teams in their first two seasons, nor does the number of teams.

Basketball Related Income (BRI) does not include the fee expansion teams pay to join the league.

The league also reserves the right to contract (reduce the number of teams in the league) if necessary. The league needs to provide the players association with written notice of any decision to contract, and the two sides will negotiate to agree on the effects of contraction on the players and the procedures to be followed.


Keep things the same. I like these things to be as realistic as possible.
Why rely on nuance, facts and logic when you can bludgeon the other side with mindless repetition of "Duuur McDaniel's has potential :tooth and still be treated as if you were reasonable.
ChettheJet
General Manager
Posts: 7,828
And1: 2,306
Joined: Jul 02, 2014
       

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#8 » by ChettheJet » Thu Apr 7, 2022 3:30 pm

I would add a change to the rules about trading players expansion teams pick up

In today's multi year tanking strategies some teams get rid of their veteran players, bad or expiring contracts etc an pile up draft picks because they know it's going to 3-4 years before they can contend. Expansion teams should be allowed the same strategy.

Let them take a big ticket veteran from CHI and then trade him to GSW for a couple of young players with potential needing playing time and a draft pick. It helps the expansion team fill out their roster with some guys who might prove worth their next contract and gives those players court time and allows a veteran to move to a contender instead of being unhappy on and expansion team.
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,849
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#9 » by Colbinii » Thu Apr 7, 2022 4:01 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:good with how things are. The Bobcats only got 60 and 75% of the cap in the first two years, so 80 and 90% is a nice, much needed jump. I would be quite annoyed if the new teams get to take other teams' 7th and 8th best players, it would be such a huge leg up from what Charlotte had.


This is extremely flawed line of thinking.

"Past generations had things worse so we can't make things better now"
Soulyss
General Manager
Posts: 8,262
And1: 3,621
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
   

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#10 » by Soulyss » Thu Apr 7, 2022 5:13 pm

I would alter the money available to expansion teams to spend in year one. I would also allow them to sign any FA on the market as if they owned the rights to that player already (aka. higher current max / years) so they can be competitive.

I think the key here is that teams need a year or two's notice for the expansion announcement so they can prepare.
VCfor3
Forum Mod - Grizzlies
Forum Mod - Grizzlies
Posts: 7,065
And1: 4,109
Joined: May 11, 2017
 

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#11 » by VCfor3 » Thu Apr 7, 2022 10:08 pm

I like the rules. Maybe whoever gets the 6th pick gets to pick first in the expansion draft
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#12 » by babyjax13 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 1:13 am

Okay, we will do the regular rules. I will get a thread up tomorrow for people to start protecting players!
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#13 » by babyjax13 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 1:14 am

VCfor3 wrote:I like the rules. Maybe whoever gets the 6th pick gets to pick first in the expansion draft

I like this and think it makes good sense. Anyone opposed? The picks are negotiated, anyway, per the cba.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
Knickfan1982
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,913
And1: 2,184
Joined: Mar 19, 2016
       

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#14 » by Knickfan1982 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 1:24 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Let's talk about expansion rules! If you want to propose a change not listed in the poll please propose it here, and if you select a change in the poll, please describe it. e.g. if you want to change how many players are protected, what is the number? If you want to change who gets selected, e.g. including UFA bird rights, say that!

I am allowing re-voting and going to keep this up for a few days : )

TLDR (still long):
1. Expansion teams select between 14-29 players
2. Teams protect a maximum of 8 players under contract or who are RFAs, BUT if they have less players under contract must leave at least one unprotected
3. Unrestricted free agents can't be selected, players who have not exercised ETOs or player options by the end of the day of the expansion draft can be selected
4. Teams that lose a player in the expansion draft receive a TPE
5. Teams can offer incentives (picks, etc.) to teams for selecting or not selecting a player in the expansion draft
6. Expansion teams have a hard cap in their first year of 80% of the salary cap, and 90% in their second year
7. Expansion teams can only select one player from each NBA team, so once you select one player from a roster, you can't select another
8. NBA draft: one expansion team receives the 5th pick, the other the 6th (coin flip) and in the second the loser of the flip receives the 37th pick and the winner receives the 38th pick (draft position is negotiated, Charlotte received the 4th pick when they expanded. I assume that the top 4 would be off-limits this year, but we can discuss)


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q114
4. How does it work when the league expands? Can the league also contract?
To supply an expansion team with its initial complement of players, the league holds an expansion draft1 prior to that year's NBA draft. Existing teams are allowed to protect up to eight players (including restricted free agents) from being selected in the expansion draft, but every team must expose at least one player who can't possibly become a free agent as the result of the exercise or non-exercise of an option or ETO. Unrestricted free agents can neither be protected from nor selected in the expansion draft, and are essentially ignored. Restricted free agents (see question number 42) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came). No team may lose more than one player in an expansion draft.

Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 57). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for an expansion team to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere).

If a team is over the cap and loses a contracted player (not a restricted free agent) to an expansion team, they receive a trade exception (see question number 87) equivalent to the selected player's salary.

Existing teams are allowed to compensate expansion teams (usually with draft picks), in exchange for selecting or not selecting particular players in the expansion draft. For example, in the 1995 expansion draft (when Vancouver & Toronto entered the league), Orlando left Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Avent, Rodney Dent and Geert Hammink unprotected, but did not want to lose either Armstrong or Hammink. They gave Vancouver their 1996 second round pick in exchange for Vancouver selecting Dent with the second pick in the expansion draft. With Dent selected by Vancouver, Armstrong and Hammink became ineligible.

It is also common to see teams leave a desirable player unprotected, hoping that the player's age and/or high salary will dissuade the expansion team from selecting him. This allows those teams to protect an additional player whom they might have been more likely to lose. Or in some cases, they might dangle a high-priced player hoping the expansion team takes him off their hands.

Expansion teams have a lower salary cap for the first two years of their existence. In their first year, their salary cap is 80% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. In their second year, it's 90% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. Beginning with their third season, they have the same salary cap as the other teams. Their minimum team salary (see question number 14) is also lower by a commensurate amount.

Expansion teams often have restrictions placed on their draft position in their first few seasons. For example, Charlotte was assigned the #4 pick in the 2004 NBA draft, and Vancouver & Toronto could not receive the #1 pick in the NBA draft for their first four seasons in the league.

If an expansion team drafts a player in the expansion draft and waives him prior to the first day of the season, then that player's salary does not count toward team salary (although they still have to pay him). This provides some protection against bad decisions made in the expansion draft -- an expansion team could select a player, later decide they don't really want him, and waive him without their team salary being negatively affected.

Most league calculations (average salary, total benefits, total salaries, BRI, salary cap) simply ignore expansion teams (and the players on those teams) for two years. For example, the league calculates the average salary by adding up the team salaries for every team, and dividing by an amount equal to the number of teams times 13.2 (see question number 31). For this calculation the total of the team salaries does not include team salaries from expansion teams in their first two seasons, nor does the number of teams.

Basketball Related Income (BRI) does not include the fee expansion teams pay to join the league.

The league also reserves the right to contract (reduce the number of teams in the league) if necessary. The league needs to provide the players association with written notice of any decision to contract, and the two sides will negotiate to agree on the effects of contraction on the players and the procedures to be followed.



Do teams have to protect players if they have the draft rights to them but they are still playing overseas?
Why rely on nuance, facts and logic when you can bludgeon the other side with mindless repetition of "Duuur McDaniel's has potential :tooth and still be treated as if you were reasonable.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#15 » by babyjax13 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 2:55 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Let's talk about expansion rules! If you want to propose a change not listed in the poll please propose it here, and if you select a change in the poll, please describe it. e.g. if you want to change how many players are protected, what is the number? If you want to change who gets selected, e.g. including UFA bird rights, say that!

I am allowing re-voting and going to keep this up for a few days : )

TLDR (still long):
1. Expansion teams select between 14-29 players
2. Teams protect a maximum of 8 players under contract or who are RFAs, BUT if they have less players under contract must leave at least one unprotected
3. Unrestricted free agents can't be selected, players who have not exercised ETOs or player options by the end of the day of the expansion draft can be selected
4. Teams that lose a player in the expansion draft receive a TPE
5. Teams can offer incentives (picks, etc.) to teams for selecting or not selecting a player in the expansion draft
6. Expansion teams have a hard cap in their first year of 80% of the salary cap, and 90% in their second year
7. Expansion teams can only select one player from each NBA team, so once you select one player from a roster, you can't select another
8. NBA draft: one expansion team receives the 5th pick, the other the 6th (coin flip) and in the second the loser of the flip receives the 37th pick and the winner receives the 38th pick (draft position is negotiated, Charlotte received the 4th pick when they expanded. I assume that the top 4 would be off-limits this year, but we can discuss)


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q114
4. How does it work when the league expands? Can the league also contract?
To supply an expansion team with its initial complement of players, the league holds an expansion draft1 prior to that year's NBA draft. Existing teams are allowed to protect up to eight players (including restricted free agents) from being selected in the expansion draft, but every team must expose at least one player who can't possibly become a free agent as the result of the exercise or non-exercise of an option or ETO. Unrestricted free agents can neither be protected from nor selected in the expansion draft, and are essentially ignored. Restricted free agents (see question number 42) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came). No team may lose more than one player in an expansion draft.

Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 57). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for an expansion team to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere).

If a team is over the cap and loses a contracted player (not a restricted free agent) to an expansion team, they receive a trade exception (see question number 87) equivalent to the selected player's salary.

Existing teams are allowed to compensate expansion teams (usually with draft picks), in exchange for selecting or not selecting particular players in the expansion draft. For example, in the 1995 expansion draft (when Vancouver & Toronto entered the league), Orlando left Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Avent, Rodney Dent and Geert Hammink unprotected, but did not want to lose either Armstrong or Hammink. They gave Vancouver their 1996 second round pick in exchange for Vancouver selecting Dent with the second pick in the expansion draft. With Dent selected by Vancouver, Armstrong and Hammink became ineligible.

It is also common to see teams leave a desirable player unprotected, hoping that the player's age and/or high salary will dissuade the expansion team from selecting him. This allows those teams to protect an additional player whom they might have been more likely to lose. Or in some cases, they might dangle a high-priced player hoping the expansion team takes him off their hands.

Expansion teams have a lower salary cap for the first two years of their existence. In their first year, their salary cap is 80% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. In their second year, it's 90% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. Beginning with their third season, they have the same salary cap as the other teams. Their minimum team salary (see question number 14) is also lower by a commensurate amount.

Expansion teams often have restrictions placed on their draft position in their first few seasons. For example, Charlotte was assigned the #4 pick in the 2004 NBA draft, and Vancouver & Toronto could not receive the #1 pick in the NBA draft for their first four seasons in the league.

If an expansion team drafts a player in the expansion draft and waives him prior to the first day of the season, then that player's salary does not count toward team salary (although they still have to pay him). This provides some protection against bad decisions made in the expansion draft -- an expansion team could select a player, later decide they don't really want him, and waive him without their team salary being negatively affected.

Most league calculations (average salary, total benefits, total salaries, BRI, salary cap) simply ignore expansion teams (and the players on those teams) for two years. For example, the league calculates the average salary by adding up the team salaries for every team, and dividing by an amount equal to the number of teams times 13.2 (see question number 31). For this calculation the total of the team salaries does not include team salaries from expansion teams in their first two seasons, nor does the number of teams.

Basketball Related Income (BRI) does not include the fee expansion teams pay to join the league.

The league also reserves the right to contract (reduce the number of teams in the league) if necessary. The league needs to provide the players association with written notice of any decision to contract, and the two sides will negotiate to agree on the effects of contraction on the players and the procedures to be followed.



Do teams have to protect players if they have the draft rights to them but they are still playing overseas?



Great question, will research that this afternoon then post the thread to protect players!
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 34,454
And1: 16,939
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Occupied Los Angeles
     

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Sat Apr 9, 2022 7:14 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Let's talk about expansion rules! If you want to propose a change not listed in the poll please propose it here, and if you select a change in the poll, please describe it. e.g. if you want to change how many players are protected, what is the number? If you want to change who gets selected, e.g. including UFA bird rights, say that!

I am allowing re-voting and going to keep this up for a few days : )

TLDR (still long):
1. Expansion teams select between 14-29 players
2. Teams protect a maximum of 8 players under contract or who are RFAs, BUT if they have less players under contract must leave at least one unprotected
3. Unrestricted free agents can't be selected, players who have not exercised ETOs or player options by the end of the day of the expansion draft can be selected
4. Teams that lose a player in the expansion draft receive a TPE
5. Teams can offer incentives (picks, etc.) to teams for selecting or not selecting a player in the expansion draft
6. Expansion teams have a hard cap in their first year of 80% of the salary cap, and 90% in their second year
7. Expansion teams can only select one player from each NBA team, so once you select one player from a roster, you can't select another
8. NBA draft: one expansion team receives the 5th pick, the other the 6th (coin flip) and in the second the loser of the flip receives the 37th pick and the winner receives the 38th pick (draft position is negotiated, Charlotte received the 4th pick when they expanded. I assume that the top 4 would be off-limits this year, but we can discuss)


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q114
4. How does it work when the league expands? Can the league also contract?
To supply an expansion team with its initial complement of players, the league holds an expansion draft1 prior to that year's NBA draft. Existing teams are allowed to protect up to eight players (including restricted free agents) from being selected in the expansion draft, but every team must expose at least one player who can't possibly become a free agent as the result of the exercise or non-exercise of an option or ETO. Unrestricted free agents can neither be protected from nor selected in the expansion draft, and are essentially ignored. Restricted free agents (see question number 42) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came). No team may lose more than one player in an expansion draft.

Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 57). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for an expansion team to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere).

If a team is over the cap and loses a contracted player (not a restricted free agent) to an expansion team, they receive a trade exception (see question number 87) equivalent to the selected player's salary.

Existing teams are allowed to compensate expansion teams (usually with draft picks), in exchange for selecting or not selecting particular players in the expansion draft. For example, in the 1995 expansion draft (when Vancouver & Toronto entered the league), Orlando left Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Avent, Rodney Dent and Geert Hammink unprotected, but did not want to lose either Armstrong or Hammink. They gave Vancouver their 1996 second round pick in exchange for Vancouver selecting Dent with the second pick in the expansion draft. With Dent selected by Vancouver, Armstrong and Hammink became ineligible.

It is also common to see teams leave a desirable player unprotected, hoping that the player's age and/or high salary will dissuade the expansion team from selecting him. This allows those teams to protect an additional player whom they might have been more likely to lose. Or in some cases, they might dangle a high-priced player hoping the expansion team takes him off their hands.

Expansion teams have a lower salary cap for the first two years of their existence. In their first year, their salary cap is 80% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. In their second year, it's 90% of the salary cap for the rest of the league. Beginning with their third season, they have the same salary cap as the other teams. Their minimum team salary (see question number 14) is also lower by a commensurate amount.

Expansion teams often have restrictions placed on their draft position in their first few seasons. For example, Charlotte was assigned the #4 pick in the 2004 NBA draft, and Vancouver & Toronto could not receive the #1 pick in the NBA draft for their first four seasons in the league.

If an expansion team drafts a player in the expansion draft and waives him prior to the first day of the season, then that player's salary does not count toward team salary (although they still have to pay him). This provides some protection against bad decisions made in the expansion draft -- an expansion team could select a player, later decide they don't really want him, and waive him without their team salary being negatively affected.

Most league calculations (average salary, total benefits, total salaries, BRI, salary cap) simply ignore expansion teams (and the players on those teams) for two years. For example, the league calculates the average salary by adding up the team salaries for every team, and dividing by an amount equal to the number of teams times 13.2 (see question number 31). For this calculation the total of the team salaries does not include team salaries from expansion teams in their first two seasons, nor does the number of teams.

Basketball Related Income (BRI) does not include the fee expansion teams pay to join the league.

The league also reserves the right to contract (reduce the number of teams in the league) if necessary. The league needs to provide the players association with written notice of any decision to contract, and the two sides will negotiate to agree on the effects of contraction on the players and the procedures to be followed.



Do teams have to protect players if they have the draft rights to them but they are still playing overseas?


You will be happy to know that I could not find an answer to this, but I seem to remember the answer being "no" because teams then could just leave the draft rights to a player unprotected but protect 8 players under contract or who were RFAs. Here is the list of who Charlotte selected, and you'll see that they only selected players under contract and RFAs. Going to post the protection thread in a bit, have had to make some runs to the airport:

Charlotte selected 10 players who are under contract: Primoz Brezec (Indiana), Predrag Drobnjak (L.A. Clippers), Brandon Hunter (Boston), Jason Kapono (Cleveland), Zaza Pachulia (Orlando), Aleksandar Pavlovic (Utah), Jamal Sampson (L.A. Lakers), Theron Smith (Memphis), Gerald Wallace (Sacramento) and Jahidi White (Phoenix).

The Bobcats also chose restricted free agents Lonny Baxter (Washington), J.R. Bremer (Golden State), Maurice Carter (New Orleans), Desmond Ferguson (Portland), Marcus Fizer (Chicago), Richie Frahm (Seattle), Tamar Slay (New Jersey), Jeff Trepagnier (Denver) and Loren Woods (Miami).


I also looked up the implications of two-way players for this draft:

Two-Way Players — A two-way player (except for a first round draft pick whose team did not exercise the third or fourth year option on that player’s rookie scale contract) will become a Restricted Free Agent if (i) he is finishing his two-way contract, (ii) he was on the team’s active or inactive list for at least 15 days of the regular season in the last season covered by the two-way contract, and (iii) the team extends him a Qualifying Offer.


This implies that two-way players only become RFAs *if* they are offered a QO, and otherwise become UFAs. Beyond this, I think protecting and/or selecting two-way players would likely circumvent the spirit of the rules, which is to have a certain amount of players already formally tied to teams who are definitively NBA caliber available for selection. So, for the purposes of this, I think we will not have two-way players eligible to be protected or selected. If a team wanted one of those players, they could extend an offer to them in free agency.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
Knickfan1982
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,913
And1: 2,184
Joined: Mar 19, 2016
       

Re: Expansion Draft Game: Poll, rules 

Post#17 » by Knickfan1982 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:08 am

babyjax13 wrote:[.


Is this happening before or after the NBA draft and if its after would we have to protect our drafted players.
Why rely on nuance, facts and logic when you can bludgeon the other side with mindless repetition of "Duuur McDaniel's has potential :tooth and still be treated as if you were reasonable.

Return to Trades and Transactions