Coaching and GM Changes - Update: Vogel fired, Pelinka next?

stan francisco · Post #1 » by **stan francisco** » Fri Apr 8, 2022 3:00 am

Vogel has the other guys playing great tonight. His 40th starting lineup. No reason to fire him unless he lost his locker room. It seems he hasn’t.

It would be good to see ownership honor his good contribution by letting him drive the bus for another year.

Pelinka has mysteriously made this team much younger. In fact, he’s provided us with so many ‘other guys’: Caruso, KCP, Ariza, Rondo, Bradley, Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Augustine, Reaves, Gabriel, THT, and so on…

Neither deserves to be the scapegoat, imo. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I can’t see the logic of ‘holding Rob responsible’ for the Westbrook trade just because he’s the one who inked the papers, just like I can’t hold Vogel responsible for AD’s Street Clothes and Westbrook’s total redundancy offensively on this team and uselessness on defense. In fact, I love how he stuck with Westbrook through good and bad, tried to work with him despite the terrible fit.

RamonSessions7 · Post #2 » by **RamonSessions7** » Fri Apr 8, 2022 3:35 am

Naw. They can both go (Frank’s already fired anyway). Neither has shown anything impressive

danfantastk32 · Post #3 » by **danfantastk32** » Fri Apr 8, 2022 5:53 pm

I think Vogal is as good as gone. I'm with you: Vogel didn't just "forget" how to teach defense. He's been given a horrible cast of characters. If Vogel did somehow miraculously survive....I'd be happy with that.

Pelinka is 50/50 to me. I don't blame him for this deal, but he coulda done better, and I think overall he's a so-so GM, who also seems to have some animosity throughout the league. The league has never been one to do favors for the Lakers, and he doesn't help.

Overall I'd rather not do the 'wholesale changes' thing. Especially with no plan in place. If there was a better GM out there, and it was something that would improve us...Ok. But the knee-jerk "someone's gotta go down for this" stuff seems to just make things worse.

But I doubt it matters. I think Vogal will be canned 15 minutes after the season.

tamaraw08 · Post #4 » by **tamaraw08** » Fri Apr 8, 2022 6:14 pm

stan francisco wrote:Vogel has the other guys playing great tonight. His 40th starting lineup. No reason to fire him unless he lost his locker room. It seems he hasn’t.

It would be good to see ownership honor his good contribution by letting him drive the bus for another year.

Pelinka has mysteriously made this team much younger. In fact, he’s provided us with so many ‘other guys’: Caruso, KCP, Ariza, Rondo, Bradley, Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Augustine, Reaves, Gabriel, THT, and so on…

Neither deserves to be the scapegoat, imo. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I can’t see the logic of ‘holding Rob responsible’ for the Westbrook trade just because he’s the one who inked the papers, just like I can’t hold Vogel responsible for AD’s Street Clothes and Westbrook’s total redundancy offensively on this team and uselessness on defense. In fact, I love how he stuck with Westbrook through good and bad, tried to work with him despite the terrible fit.

Frank can't drive the bus if he's thrown under it at the same time. :roll:

TylersLakers · Post #5 » by **TylersLakers** » Fri Apr 8, 2022 11:03 pm

I'd like to see both gone. Along with Kurt Rambis.

euphorbus · Post #6 » by **euphorbus** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 12:50 pm

The Lakers owe Coach Vogel a debt of gratitude for playing the young guys on the team more and more after the All-Star break. Even knowing his contract would not be renewed, he helped prepare the team for the future: Reaves, Monk, Gabriel, Johnson, Jones, Horton-Tucker, all received significant minutes and all but Jones started. It is also no coincidence that the first three of those guys are the only ones on the team with a positive +- for the season. Stanley Johnson is next at -1.1.

slifersd · Post #7 » by **slifersd** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 5:56 pm

TylersLakers wrote:I'd like to see both gone. Along with Kurt Rambis.

Take jeanie with them too lol

tamaraw08 · Post #8 » by **tamaraw08** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 6:32 pm

This question needs to be asked before deciding who needs to go or stay.
Was Vogel consulted about acquiring players like Bazemore, Ellington, DJ, Ariza?
If yes, Frank needs to go because he has to admit that these guys turned out to be completely useless for this team. If not Rob should take full responsibility for this mess.
Ellington actually shot decently and yet Vogel refused to use him.
Who made the decision to pick THT?
Did Rob told Jeannie we really don’t need to retain and pay Caruso?

scoobs07 · Post #9 » by **scoobs07** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 7:34 pm

Fralinka could go.

Post #10 » by **zimpy27** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:11 am

stan francisco wrote:Vogel has the other guys playing great tonight. His 40th starting lineup. No reason to fire him unless he lost his locker room. It seems he hasn’t.

It would be good to see ownership honor his good contribution by letting him drive the bus for another year.

Pelinka has mysteriously made this team much younger. In fact, he’s provided us with so many ‘other guys’: Caruso, KCP, Ariza, Rondo, Bradley, Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Augustine, Reaves, Gabriel, THT, and so on…

Neither deserves to be the scapegoat, imo. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I can’t see the logic of ‘holding Rob responsible’ for the Westbrook trade just because he’s the one who inked the papers, just like I can’t hold Vogel responsible for AD’s Street Clothes and Westbrook’s total redundancy offensively on this team and uselessness on defense. In fact, I love how he stuck with Westbrook through good and bad, tried to work with him despite the terrible fit.

Rob has been awful. He should be fired, he has.bo idea what makes this team good and that's his number responsibility as a GM.

He released his own messaging to cover for himself over Westbrook saying that he wanted Hield. The number 1 defense Lakers dropped to 21st this season and Pelinka is pushing for Hield? The guy is a fool that completely lucked into Caruso and Green - guys that helped to forge the defensive identity.

tamaraw08 · Post #11 » by **tamaraw08** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:28 am

zimpy27 wrote:
stan francisco wrote:Vogel has the other guys playing great tonight. His 40th starting lineup. No reason to fire him unless he lost his locker room. It seems he hasn’t.

It would be good to see ownership honor his good contribution by letting him drive the bus for another year.

Pelinka has mysteriously made this team much younger. In fact, he’s provided us with so many ‘other guys’: Caruso, KCP, Ariza, Rondo, Bradley, Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Augustine, Reaves, Gabriel, THT, and so on…

Neither deserves to be the scapegoat, imo. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I can’t see the logic of ‘holding Rob responsible’ for the Westbrook trade just because he’s the one who inked the papers, just like I can’t hold Vogel responsible for AD’s Street Clothes and Westbrook’s total redundancy offensively on this team and uselessness on defense. In fact, I love how he stuck with Westbrook through good and bad, tried to work with him despite the terrible fit.

Rob has been awful. He should be fired, he has.bo idea what makes this team good and that's his number responsibility as a GM.

He released his own messaging to cover for himself over Westbrook saying that he wanted Hield. The number 1 defense Lakers dropped to 21st this season and Pelinka is pushing for Hield? The guy is a fool that completely lucked into Caruso and Green - guys that helped to forge the defensive identity.

Are you referring to the same guy who signed 3&D flexible defenders like KCP, Danny Green, the guy who found Caruso, retained Kuzma, the GM Who acquired Howard and McGhee?
I’m not saying he’s great but no idea, really?
If he didn’t consult Vogel when he signed Bazemore, Ellington, DJ and Ariza then he should take responsibility. If he didn’t try hard enough to convince Jeannie to resign Caruso, sign Scott Brooks and absorb the contract of Christian Wood, then he should be fired.

Post #12 » by **zimpy27** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:01 am

tamaraw08 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
stan francisco wrote:Vogel has the other guys playing great tonight. His 40th starting lineup. No reason to fire him unless he lost his locker room. It seems he hasn’t.

It would be good to see ownership honor his good contribution by letting him drive the bus for another year.

Pelinka has mysteriously made this team much younger. In fact, he’s provided us with so many ‘other guys’: Caruso, KCP, Ariza, Rondo, Bradley, Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Augustine, Reaves, Gabriel, THT, and so on…

Neither deserves to be the scapegoat, imo. What are your thoughts?

Edit: I can’t see the logic of ‘holding Rob responsible’ for the Westbrook trade just because he’s the one who inked the papers, just like I can’t hold Vogel responsible for AD’s Street Clothes and Westbrook’s total redundancy offensively on this team and uselessness on defense. In fact, I love how he stuck with Westbrook through good and bad, tried to work with him despite the terrible fit.

Rob has been awful. He should be fired, he has.bo idea what makes this team good and that's his number responsibility as a GM.

He released his own messaging to cover for himself over Westbrook saying that he wanted Hield. The number 1 defense Lakers dropped to 21st this season and Pelinka is pushing for Hield? The guy is a fool that completely lucked into Caruso and Green - guys that helped to forge the defensive identity.

Are you referring to the same guy who signed 3&D flexible defenders like KCP, Danny Green, the guy who found Caruso, retained Kuzma, the GM Who acquired Howard and McGhee?
I’m not saying he’s great but no idea, really?
If he didn’t consult Vogel when he signed Bazemore, Ellington, DJ and Ariza then he should take responsibility. If he didn’t try hard enough to convince Jeannie to resign Caruso, sign Scott Brooks and absorb the contract of Christian Wood, then he should be fired.

He didn't find Caruso. Caruso was with Lakers since 2017.
He did sign Green as a last resort offer backup for Kawhi, he lucked out there.
He did get KCP there too.
Retaining Kuzma was a mistake, not necessary at all.
McGee and Howard were fumbled by Rob.

The team identity is defense with offense created by isolation. It's the ideal combo for a reliable and elite playoff basketball. They burned it down chasing shooting

euphorbus · Post #13 » by **euphorbus** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:56 am

That the report that the Lakers would not offer Coach Vogel another contract for next season came out as soon as the buzzer sounded just shows that the front office is populated with disrespectful jerks. Who would want to coach for such a low-class, cutthroat organization?

Post #14 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:06 am

euphorbus wrote:That the report that the Lakers would not offer Coach Vogel another contract for next season came out as soon as the buzzer sounded just shows that the front office is populated with disrespectful jerks. Who would want to coach for such a low-class, cutthroat organization?

It feels like Pelinka doing anything he can to shift the focus off of him...

And not that the Vogel shoe has fallen, Pelinka definitely needs to go now too... No thinking fan is going to buy this effed up roster had nothing to do with the poor performance, or that Vogel actually wanted these players?

I have no problem getting rid of Vogel... But I do have a problem getting treated like an idiot by the Franchise... Trying to sell me on firing him was the solution to this season...

danfantastk32 · Post #15 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:40 am

euphorbus wrote:That the report that the Lakers would not offer Coach Vogel another contract for next season came out as soon as the buzzer sounded just shows that the front office is populated with disrespectful jerks. Who would want to coach for such a low-class, cutthroat organization?

You know, it's interesting when you talk to Laker fans, or when you listen to them call in on the radio: I don't think anyone pins this on Vogel at all....except a few people will say he 'coulda/shoulda done SOMETHING with this squad'. I think that is possibly a fair point. I think this team was pretty crap, but I am shocked we couldn't even make the play in. Anyhow....point is, I don't know who the FO thinks they are "selling" this to. Who's mind are you putting at ease by making him the fall guy? That's the part that bothers me. Does Jeanie really think this solves an issue.....or is this some weird "give the fans a bone" move? Both are equally scary, and out of touch.

Vogel is all but officially out....and I'm curious who thinks this actually improves anything (and I don't mean we woulda won 5-6 more games. Like who thinks 'the coaching' was actually the issue this year), and I'm curious if any of the FO can look him in the face, and fire him, knowing full well it was the collection of garbage they handed him that failed. Vogel is a defensive coach, given horrible defensive pieces. So is the plan to get an offensive coach, and try to outscore our opponents next year? Good grief.

LAL1947 · Post #16 » by **LAL1947** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:40 am

Agreed, I think we should keep Pelinka and Vogel. I'm happy to have Pelinka at the helm as GM. I also like Vogel, he seems like the kind of coach we should keep for 10 years plus, to see if he can create a dynasty. He is young, hardworking, intelligent, self-aware, a team builder, doesn't need adulation himself, doesn't push himself into the limelight... seems the kind of guy who can keep the heads of young players on straight. He doesn't just talk like some, he does and he works. He may need an assistant coach for offense, but he needs to be given more control over the roster compared to having things imposed on him by LeGM.

We need to fire Lebron/Klutch and move in a new direction. This team needs to do what's best for itself... not what's best for Lebron... because these two things are not necessarily aligned in every instance. If what is best for the team is also what is best for Lebron, then great... but the GM + Coach need to determine that by themselves. IMO, the best thing for the team would be to trade Lebron in return for assets it can use to rebuild, rather than wait any longer.

And please get rid of Fizdale. We don't need an assistant coach who is self-serving... we need one who will serve his head coach fully, and thus the team.

RamonSessions7 · Post #17 » by **RamonSessions7** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:20 am

1 (scapegoat) down, 1 to go.

Not excited for either Rob or whatever Jeannie and her friends have planned next.

Ckay · Post #18 » by **Ckay** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:35 pm

Kurt Rambis got too much power.

Read on Twitter

Post #19 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:00 pm

Ckay wrote:Kurt Rambis got too much power.

Read on Twitter

I wonder if they just haven't told Rob yet... If he 'takes responsibility' then we've had essentially 2 horribly constructed teams around LeBron and AD... In a row... That's 2 out of 3 years he's been in charge... I'm not sure any other GM would survive that...

Name a team that had AD and LeBron on it and had just won a championship, who emptied the roster right after, barely made the playoffs the next season, and missed it the season after, and still wouldn't fire the GM?... Maybe San Antonio, only because Pop is the GM.

Rob has been given too many chances for a Lakers GM.

Post #20 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:38 pm

...Actually, I hope the Lakers are going to guys like Kerr and Nurse and offering them a Coach/GM roll... Let them have personnel decision making authority too, and build a culture. Especially Kerr...
Might even consider offering it to Quinn Snyder too, although maybe not. Bump Pelinka up to a corner office with a view and weld the door shut....