What does Finchy need to run his system?

[Klomp]

As we're in the thick of the playoff conversation, I don't want us to lose sight of the big picture when it comes to the franchise. There are highs like Saturday and there are lows as we've seen before, but the bigger picture involves the melding of the philosophies of both the head coach and the people putting the roster together.

In order to put a successful roster, there has to be an idea of what a coach needs in order to run his schemes successfully. This goes deeper than "we need a PF/C because our roster is full of twigs." This is about skill sets.

For example, I think we've seen as the season went along the importance of the gravity of Malik Beasley. It's not just a percentage, but about his impact on the defense and its scouting report. That one skill has a profound effect on our system and the way teams play us. This makes it harder to move a guy like that unless that can be replaced.

Naz Reid is not Karl-Anthony Towns. However, his skill set allows the team to play the same brand of basketball both when Towns is on the court or off. Many people are trying to replace Reid this offseason with completely different skill sets, and I'm just not sure that's wise. There's a component to Finch's system that asks bigs to play a certain way. Not every big can play in that manner, so someone like Reid may be more important going forward because of the skills needed from the center in this system.

So what are some of the biggest keys we need to be looking at?

[winforlose]

High wall is Finch’s defense of choice. I love that it gets Karl out on the perimeter and in theory away from the big who will draw fouls on him. But, Karl functions as a PF when he is that far from the basket. We need an actual C or a beef bus PF who can intercept the roller and contain one on one. V8 cannot do it, so we bring Ant or Dlo, or some other small to help and give up corner 3s. If Naz cannot play with KAT we need someone who can. In high wall V8 is the ideal SF because his length and quickness can bother guards and wings and he can rebound against smaller guys (which means smaller box outs.) Unfortunately because V8 is a non shooter the new big must be a shooter, but there are plenty of bigs who can hit the deep ball or at least the mid range.

We also need a backup PF with legit size for rebounding. Prince is a SF who is too small to contain true bigs. MCD is much better as a SF and hopefully will develop rebounding like V8 while improving his offense to become like Roco. We need someone who can backup KAT and our new C and have a 3 or 4 big rotation. You could move Naz to the four and add a 5, I think that works well.


Finally, I think we need to get Nowell going more and move on from JMAC. As good as the little big man can be, he just doesn’t move the needle enough when his shot is off (happens a lot.) There is no reason we cannot play Nowell and Beasley together unless we move Beasley for a starting big in which case I would still seek out an improved backup PG and plug Nowell into the backup SG.

[LibertyPrime]

High wall is Finch’s defense of choice. I love that it gets Karl out on the perimeter and in theory away from the big who will draw fouls on him. But, Karl functions as a PF when he is that far from the basket. We need an actual C or a beef bus PF who can intercept the roller and contain one on one. V8 cannot do it, so we bring Ant or Dlo, or some other small to help and give up corner 3s. If Naz cannot play with KAT we need someone who can. In high wall V8 is the ideal SF because his length and quickness can bother guards and wings and he can rebound against smaller guys (which means smaller box outs.) Unfortunately because V8 is a non shooter the new big must be a shooter, but there are plenty of bigs who can hit the deep ball or at least the mid range.

We also need a backup PF with legit size for rebounding. Prince is a SF who is too small to contain true bigs. MCD is much better as a SF and hopefully will develop rebounding like V8 while improving his offense to become like Roco. We need someone who can backup KAT and our new C and have a 3 or 4 big rotation. You could move Naz to the four and add a 5, I think that works well.

One guy who might be available when we pick is E.J. Liddell, who is strong as a bull (240 lbs) and defensively mobile, and shooting upwards of 35% from 3 IIRC. He's defensive minded (somewhere between 2-3 bpg). One knock on him is that he's kinda short for a SF-PF (then again, as they said about Elton Brand, you don't block shots with your head). I haven't seen that much film on him yet, but I kind of envision him as a good complement to either KAT or Naz.

[winforlose]

High wall is Finch’s defense of choice. I love that it gets Karl out on the perimeter and in theory away from the big who will draw fouls on him. But, Karl functions as a PF when he is that far from the basket. We need an actual C or a beef bus PF who can intercept the roller and contain one on one. V8 cannot do it, so we bring Ant or Dlo, or some other small to help and give up corner 3s. If Naz cannot play with KAT we need someone who can. In high wall V8 is the ideal SF because his length and quickness can bother guards and wings and he can rebound against smaller guys (which means smaller box outs.) Unfortunately because V8 is a non shooter the new big must be a shooter, but there are plenty of bigs who can hit the deep ball or at least the mid range.

We also need a backup PF with legit size for rebounding. Prince is a SF who is too small to contain true bigs. MCD is much better as a SF and hopefully will develop rebounding like V8 while improving his offense to become like Roco. We need someone who can backup KAT and our new C and have a 3 or 4 big rotation. You could move Naz to the four and add a 5, I think that works well.

One guy who might be available when we pick is E.J. Liddell, who is strong as a bull (240 lbs) and defensively mobile, and shooting upwards of 35% from 3 IIRC. He's strong-bodied, defensive minded (somewhere between 2-3 bpg). One knock on him is that he's kinda short for a SF-PF (then again, as they said about Elton Brand, you don't block shots with your head). I haven't seen that much film on him yet, but I kind of envision him as a good complement to either KAT or Naz.

Two thoughts on that. JO is 6’4 but can guard 6’6 or even 6’7 fairly well because of his reach. But start moving beyond 6’6 and we start to see trouble, especially when there is a weight differential. That said, Ant and MCD both grew since being drafted, and Liddell might as well.

Second, we have 3 second round picks and Leo. Moving up for someone we really like isn’t crazy.

Edit to update: 6’7 is too small. Even if he grows to 6’9 I would be concerned. I thought based on your initial post he was around 6’9 or 6’10.

[karch34]

I’m not sure what Finch’s ideal system is to be honest as he seems like he’s making it work based on what he’s got. Does he like high wall more than drop or does it fit his team better? That being said I see the list in no particular order as:

Defensive big who can rebound and isn’t an offensive liability. This could be our MLE assuming Jake and Josh go and Prince signs an extension around $9-10 per. Might be one of our 2nds.

Shot creating wing. Think this is likely our 1st rounder. Maybe it’s Balmaro but haven’t seen enough to believe it.

Bigger/athletic PG. Beverly is great but he’s older. JMac is a great value but he’s got his limitations. DLo doesn’t match up well against a lot of the PG out there that are more athletic.

[Neeva]

Stay away from Liddell. The guy we need is Jeremy Sochan.

[shangrila]

High wall is Finch’s defense of choice. I love that it gets Karl out on the perimeter and in theory away from the big who will draw fouls on him. But, Karl functions as a PF when he is that far from the basket. We need an actual C or a beef bus PF who can intercept the roller and contain one on one. V8 cannot do it, so we bring Ant or Dlo, or some other small to help and give up corner 3s. If Naz cannot play with KAT we need someone who can. In high wall V8 is the ideal SF because his length and quickness can bother guards and wings and he can rebound against smaller guys (which means smaller box outs.) Unfortunately because V8 is a non shooter the new big must be a shooter, but there are plenty of bigs who can hit the deep ball or at least the mid range.

We also need a backup PF with legit size for rebounding. Prince is a SF who is too small to contain true bigs. MCD is much better as a SF and hopefully will develop rebounding like V8 while improving his offense to become like Roco. We need someone who can backup KAT and our new C and have a 3 or 4 big rotation. You could move Naz to the four and add a 5, I think that works well.

One guy who might be available when we pick is E.J. Liddell, who is strong as a bull (240 lbs) and defensively mobile, and shooting upwards of 35% from 3 IIRC. He's defensive minded (somewhere between 2-3 bpg). One knock on him is that he's kinda short for a SF-PF (then again, as they said about Elton Brand, you don't block shots with your head). I haven't seen that much film on him yet, but I kind of envision him as a good complement to either KAT or Naz.

Liddell is a guy I'm pretty all in on.

He's not a star, nor is he going to be one. But as a role player he's got all the tools we need. He's got great defensive instincts, he moves his feet/hips well, a high IQ on both ends, can hit the 3 and enough bulk to bang in the post (but not so much it slows him down on the perimeter).

If anyone thinks he'll struggle guarding NBA guys they should watch the Duke v Ohio State game. He was all over Banchero and more than held his own when switched onto Williams, not to mention doing enough on guys like Keels or Roach.

Now, he won't score much in the post (not that we should care) and he's not an amazing rebounder. But we're not getting perfect at 18, especially in this draft.

[shangrila]

Shot creating wing. Think this is likely our 1st rounder. Maybe it’s Balmaro but haven’t seen enough to believe it.

Bigger/athletic PG. Beverly is great but he’s older. JMac is a great value but he’s got his limitations. DLo doesn’t match up well against a lot of the PG out there that are more athletic.

This might be the same player.

I think part of what makes McLaughlin work so well offensively is that he can consistently get into the paint off the bounce and there's no other guards on the roster that can (maybe Ant, but I'm looking at more the 1/2 guys than the 2/3 and beyond which is where I'd put Ant).

The issue in replacing McLaughlin is there's so many things he does well that you're unlikely to find elsewhere. I don't necessarily buy his shooting (he was a roughly 20% shooter from Oct to Feb before shooting roughly 45% between March and April) but his assist to turnover rate is amazing (especially important for a PG) and there's a lot to be said for a guy with his kind of temperament, who won't complain about minutes and is always ready.

[minimus]

At this point our biggest need is smart veteran players who know their roles. If not veterans, we need high character, low profile young players who can learn.

[KGdaBom]

High wall is Finch’s defense of choice. I love that it gets Karl out on the perimeter and in theory away from the big who will draw fouls on him. But, Karl functions as a PF when he is that far from the basket. We need an actual C or a beef bus PF who can intercept the roller and contain one on one. V8 cannot do it, so we bring Ant or Dlo, or some other small to help and give up corner 3s. If Naz cannot play with KAT we need someone who can. In high wall V8 is the ideal SF because his length and quickness can bother guards and wings and he can rebound against smaller guys (which means smaller box outs.) Unfortunately because V8 is a non shooter the new big must be a shooter, but there are plenty of bigs who can hit the deep ball or at least the mid range.

We also need a backup PF with legit size for rebounding. Prince is a SF who is too small to contain true bigs. MCD is much better as a SF and hopefully will develop rebounding like V8 while improving his offense to become like Roco. We need someone who can backup KAT and our new C and have a 3 or 4 big rotation. You could move Naz to the four and add a 5, I think that works well.

One guy who might be available when we pick is E.J. Liddell, who is strong as a bull (240 lbs) and defensively mobile, and shooting upwards of 35% from 3 IIRC. He's defensive minded (somewhere between 2-3 bpg). One knock on him is that he's kinda short for a SF-PF (then again, as they said about Elton Brand, you don't block shots with your head). I haven't seen that much film on him yet, but I kind of envision him as a good complement to either KAT or Naz.

Liddell is a guy I'm pretty all in on.

He's not a star, nor is he going to be one. But as a role player he's got all the tools we need. He's got great defensive instincts, he moves his feet/hips well, a high IQ on both ends, can hit the 3 and enough bulk to bang in the post (but not so much it slows him down on the perimeter).

If anyone thinks he'll struggle guarding NBA guys they should watch the Duke v Ohio State game. He was all over Banchero and more than held his own when switched onto Williams, not to mention doing enough on guys like Keels or Roach.

Now, he won't score much in the post (not that we should care) and he's not an amazing rebounder. But we're not getting perfect at 18, especially in this draft.

We're not drafting 18. We're drafting 30.

[Takingbaconback]

His system requires shooters and while Wolves got one in Beasley, they need another pure shooter. Forbes might be available for cheap. Batum may be in play if he opts out with the clippers. I'd trade all 2022 picks with Nowell for Pritchard, but I doubt Celtics would do that.

[BlacJacMac]

One guy who might be available when we pick is E.J. Liddell, who is strong as a bull (240 lbs) and defensively mobile, and shooting upwards of 35% from 3 IIRC. He's defensive minded (somewhere between 2-3 bpg). One knock on him is that he's kinda short for a SF-PF (then again, as they said about Elton Brand, you don't block shots with your head). I haven't seen that much film on him yet, but I kind of envision him as a good complement to either KAT or Naz.

Liddell is a guy I'm pretty all in on.

He's not a star, nor is he going to be one. But as a role player he's got all the tools we need. He's got great defensive instincts, he moves his feet/hips well, a high IQ on both ends, can hit the 3 and enough bulk to bang in the post (but not so much it slows him down on the perimeter).

If anyone thinks he'll struggle guarding NBA guys they should watch the Duke v Ohio State game. He was all over Banchero and more than held his own when switched onto Williams, not to mention doing enough on guys like Keels or Roach.

Now, he won't score much in the post (not that we should care) and he's not an amazing rebounder. But we're not getting perfect at 18, especially in this draft.

We're not drafting 18. We're drafting 30.

Only if we restart the regular season and we finish with the best record. Last year Utah picked 30th, and the NBA champs were at 24.

8: Playoff teams, sorted by record, are assigned picks 15-30 - playoff seeds and outcomes have no impact
11: Second round is ordered by record without playoff consideration

https://www.tankathon.com/

[life_saver]

For example, I think we've seen as the season went along the importance of the gravity of Malik Beasley. It's not just a percentage, but about his impact on the defense and its scouting report. That one skill has a profound effect on our system and the way teams play us. This makes it harder to move a guy like that unless that can be replaced.

Beasley will be important in almost any system in the league tbh..a good Catch & Shoot 3 pt shooter with a ridiculously quick release like Beasley is super valuable in modern NBA in almost every system

[karch34]

Shot creating wing. Think this is likely our 1st rounder. Maybe it’s Balmaro but haven’t seen enough to believe it.

Bigger/athletic PG. Beverly is great but he’s older. JMac is a great value but he’s got his limitations. DLo doesn’t match up well against a lot of the PG out there that are more athletic.

This might be the same player.

I think part of what makes McLaughlin work so well offensively is that he can consistently get into the paint off the bounce and there's no other guards on the roster that can (maybe Ant, but I'm looking at more the 1/2 guys than the 2/3 and beyond which is where I'd put Ant).

The issue in replacing McLaughlin is there's so many things he does well that you're unlikely to find elsewhere. I don't necessarily buy his shooting (he was a roughly 20% shooter from Oct to Feb before shooting roughly 45% between March and April) but his assist to turnover rate is amazing (especially important for a PG) and there's a lot to be said for a guy with his kind of temperament, who won't complain about minutes and is always ready.

It could be. I like McLaughlin a lot, but we also have to realize the Gupta special is going to run out on some guys so we should be looking down the road as well.

In regards to the other post I like Sochan and Liddell. Think Sochan is likely gone but Liddell wouldn't be.

[KGdaBom]

Liddell is a guy I'm pretty all in on.

He's not a star, nor is he going to be one. But as a role player he's got all the tools we need. He's got great defensive instincts, he moves his feet/hips well, a high IQ on both ends, can hit the 3 and enough bulk to bang in the post (but not so much it slows him down on the perimeter).

If anyone thinks he'll struggle guarding NBA guys they should watch the Duke v Ohio State game. He was all over Banchero and more than held his own when switched onto Williams, not to mention doing enough on guys like Keels or Roach.

Now, he won't score much in the post (not that we should care) and he's not an amazing rebounder. But we're not getting perfect at 18, especially in this draft.

We're not drafting 18. We're drafting 30.

Only if we restart the regular season and we finish with the best record. Last year Utah picked 30th, and the NBA champs were at 24.

8: Playoff teams, sorted by record, are assigned picks 15-30 - playoff seeds and outcomes have no impact
11: Second round is ordered by record without playoff consideration

https://www.tankathon.com/

Is that a change? In my mind I clearly recall the champion drafts last.

[shrink]

We're not drafting 18. We're drafting 30.

Only if we restart the regular season and we finish with the best record. Last year Utah picked 30th, and the NBA champs were at 24.

8: Playoff teams, sorted by record, are assigned picks 15-30 - playoff seeds and outcomes have no impact
11: Second round is ordered by record without playoff consideration

https://www.tankathon.com/

Is that a change? In my mind I clearly recall the champion drafts last.

No change. Playoffs don’t affect draft order, just regular season.

Understandable to forget it doesn’t affect playoff teams, since we basically have lived in the lottery for a decade and a half.

[KGdaBom]

Only if we restart the regular season and we finish with the best record. Last year Utah picked 30th, and the NBA champs were at 24.

8: Playoff teams, sorted by record, are assigned picks 15-30 - playoff seeds and outcomes have no impact
11: Second round is ordered by record without playoff consideration

https://www.tankathon.com/

Is that a change? In my mind I clearly recall the champion drafts last.

No change. Playoffs don’t affect draft order, just regular season.

Understandable to forget it doesn’t affect playoff teams, since we basically have lived in the lottery for a decade and a half.

No change ever? It has always been based on regular season?

[Klomp]

Shot creating wing. Think this is likely our 1st rounder. Maybe it’s Balmaro but haven’t seen enough to believe it.

Bigger/athletic PG. Beverly is great but he’s older. JMac is a great value but he’s got his limitations. DLo doesn’t match up well against a lot of the PG out there that are more athletic.

Yeah I'm not sure what to do with Lea. I actually like the potential fit, because he provides the defensive tenacity like we get from Pat Bev while also having the PG/led guard abilities we can get from someone like JMac. I think he can slot into either role with time (an attractive quality), but how long must we wait?

[Klomp]

Is that a change? In my mind I clearly recall the champion drafts last.

No change. Playoffs don’t affect draft order, just regular season.

Understandable to forget it doesn’t affect playoff teams, since we basically have lived in the lottery for a decade and a half.

No change ever? It has always been based on regular season?

It's been this way for at least the past two decades. In the 2003 draft (Ebi), the only teams drafting after the 51-win Timberwolves were the 60-win Spurs, 60-win Mavericks and Grizzlies via Magic via 59-win Kings.

[BlacJacMac]

I think I like it better being based on regular season record.

Its a much larger sample size, so it probably gives a better picture of the actual level each team is at.

If a top team suffers an injury in Game 1, should they benefit by potentially 8 or more draft picks?