If LeBron James and James Harden switched teams for 2018 playoffs

[PhiEaglesfan712]

What would have happened if LeBron played for the Rockets in 2018, and James Harden for the Cavaliers?

[MartinToVaught]

The Cavs get swept in the first round with Harden putting up his usual embarrassing performances, if they even make the playoffs at all.

The Rockets still lose to the Warriors because they were just that unfairly and uncompetitively stacked.

[parsnips33]

The Cavs get swept in the first round with Harden putting up his usual embarrassing performances, if they even make the playoffs at all.

The Rockets still lose to the Warriors because they were just that unfairly and uncompetitively stacked.

You would be so good on like a First Take style show

One of the best posters on here

[RCM88x]

Houston probably goes on to win the title, granted, they probably beat GS in the majority of situations except for our reality where they went 0-27 and CP3 also got hurt the last two games.

Cavs have a very tough series against Indy, like they did irl, if they get past them they'd probably have a very tough series against Toronto too. Cavs only good or even decent shooting series was against Toronto that postseason, and it showed in the results.

[falcolombardi]

the rockets were very good defensively against warriors but not offensively

lebron cavs in 17/18 were very good offensively against warriors but not defensively

combine them and they would be very likely to beat golden state

[Homer38]

The 4 cavs wins against the pacers were by 4 points at least and LBJ needed to score over 40 points to win 3 of his games....Also 2 of the cavs losses were by 18 points and over 30 points so if we look at Harden's history in the playoffs, it's unlikely he wins this series.The cavs were also outscored by 40 points in this series

[parsnips33]

Houston probably goes on to win the title, granted, they probably beat GS in the majority of situations except for our reality where they went 0-27 and CP3 also got hurt the last two games.

Cavs have a very tough series against Indy, like they did irl, if they get past them they'd probably have a very tough series against Toronto too. Cavs only good or even decent shooting series was against Toronto that postseason, and it showed in the results.

You think Warriors were underdogs in that series?

[parsnips33]

That CP3 injury might be the best thing to ever happen to Harden's legacy

[falcolombardi]

That CP3 injury might be the best thing to ever happen to Harden's legacy

disagree, rockets were the underdog so nobody would have blamed rockets for losing

if anythingh, had they won (which they may with cp3 healthy) it would have been ridiculously big for his "legacy"

[MartinToVaught]

The Cavs get swept in the first round with Harden putting up his usual embarrassing performances, if they even make the playoffs at all.

The Rockets still lose to the Warriors because they were just that unfairly and uncompetitively stacked.

You would be so good on like a First Take style show

One of the best posters on here

It's the truth, not some First Take-level shtick. People forget that the Cavs only barely got past the Pacers that year because of an all-time carry job by LeBron. Not a single one of his teammates even scored 20 points in any of the games. That's Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic level bad, and it went all seven games, so it's not like they didn't have ample opportunities to step up and lift the weight off LeBron's shoulders. They just weren't good enough to do it.

I have a hard time seeing anyone even in today's league do what LeBron did that series. Luka would probably be the best bet. But of course, we're supposed to be comparing to Harden, and when you factor in Harden's disappointing playoff resume and history of quitting on his team at the slightest adversity, I don't see how the 2018 Cavs would have been anything other than a disaster with him in LeBron's place. Who knows if he'd even still be on the Cavs by the time the playoffs started? We all know he loves to force a trade whenever times get tough. He just did it twice in the span of a year.

As for the Rockets, even with all the factors going their way - Iggy's injury, Durant giving away games with his isoball - they still couldn't get over the hump. That Warriors team was as close to unbeatable as it gets.

[parsnips33]

That CP3 injury might be the best thing to ever happen to Harden's legacy

disagree, rockets were the underdog so nobody would have blamed rockets for losing

if anythingh, had they won (which they may with cp3 healthy) it would have been ridiculously big for his "legacy"

But now he gets the "what could have been" factor without ever having to have won. And don't get me wrong that was a great team, great year from Harden, etc.

I just think it's interesting to compare how the 2018 series and CP3 injury are discussed compared to the 2019 series with the KD injury

[parsnips33]

The Cavs get swept in the first round with Harden putting up his usual embarrassing performances, if they even make the playoffs at all.

The Rockets still lose to the Warriors because they were just that unfairly and uncompetitively stacked.

You would be so good on like a First Take style show

One of the best posters on here

It's the truth, not some First Take-level shtick. People forget that the Cavs only barely got past the Pacers that year because of an all-time carry job by LeBron. Not a single one of his teammates even scored 20 points in any of the games. That's Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic level bad, and it went all seven games, so it's not like they didn't have ample opportunities to step up and lift the weight off LeBron's shoulders. They just weren't good enough to do it.

I have a hard time seeing anyone even in today's league do what LeBron did that series. Luka would probably be the best bet. But of course, we're supposed to be comparing to Harden, and when you factor in Harden's disappointing playoff resume and history of quitting on his team at the slightest adversity, I don't see how the 2018 Cavs would have been anything other than a disaster with him in LeBron's place. Who knows if he'd even still be on the Cavs by the time the playoffs started? We all know he loves to force a trade whenever times get tough. He just did it twice in the span of a year.

As for the Rockets, even with all the factors going their way - Iggy's injury, Durant giving away games with his isoball - they still couldn't get over the hump. That Warriors team was as close to unbeatable as it gets.

I don't even think you're wrong, you just have a way with words. Guaranteed to piss somebody off lol

[LukaTheGOAT]

I think Harden loses with the Cavs against the Pacers if all things stay the same. If the Cavs shooters struggle to shoot, I don't see Harden having more defensive impact than Lebron, or being able to finish at the rim better against more packed paints to compensate (maybe he could generate enough fouls to make up for it)? The Cavs very easily could have lost that series when Lebron played, and therefore I think they probably do lose in this hypothetical (In the following paragraphs, I will shed a bit of light on why I consider Lebron a better offensive player in 2018)

As for the next question, I think the Rockets win the championship in this scenario. They were very close to winning (and maybe more times than not win with Harden). I think Lebron is likely an upgrade over James Harden.

Lebron against the Warriors in the 2018 Finals averaged 34 ppg and 10 assists per game on a rTS% of 8.1% and had a BPM of 11.9. James created about 15.1 shots per 100 possessions. Lebron had a cTOV% of 10.2%. Lebron had a passer rating of 7.9.

James Harden against the Warriors in the 2018 WCF averaged 28.7 ppg and 6 assists per game on a rTS% of -0.1% and had a BPM of 6.5. Harden created about 9.1 shots per 100 possessions. Harden had a cTOV% of 11.9%. Harden had a passer rating of 4.9.

So in terms of per game impact, I would say Lebron strongly outpaced Harden's production against the Warriors. I think the Warriors matchup is the key thing to focus on, because I do consider them the biggest impediment on the Rockets winning the championship in this scenario.

No situation is 1-to-1 but I do consider Harden and Lebron to both play in heliocentric roles, so I imagine the adjustment would not be too great for either. Lebron playing next to another primary ball-handler in CP3 doesn't worry me, as I think Lebron played really well next to Kyrie in their PS runs (and had historic PS offenses to boot). Against the Warriors, both Harden and Lebron had large offensive loads (54.5 and 57.8 respectively), so depending on the flow of the game Lebron may touch the ball a bit more or a bit less. I suppose that if you cut Lebron's offensive load a bit back to Harden's level, it is very possible we could get a bit of the Lebron we saw in 2020, where his defense might be borderline all-nba level with less of an offensive load (For example Lebron had a 54.1 offensive load in the 2020 PS and many people came away believing he was a top 3 defender in the PS). Either way, I think Lebron can hold a similar offensive load and have similar offensive production or ramp down a bit, and be an annoying defender to deal with.

Overall, Lebron scored better, created more shots, and turned the ball over less than Harden which I think bodes well for improving the Houston offensive performance against the Warriors. I think in particular, you would see Houston be less reliant on the 3 to score, so 0-27 might be less likely to happen because Lebron would better be able to assert rim-pressure than Harden. I think a stat that really outlines this, is that Lebron had a 16.4 3PAr against the Warriors, while Harden had a 41.7% 3PAr. I think in a longer drawn out series, being so reliant on the 3 can have drawbacks as people's legs get tired-Harden ended up shooting 24% from the 3 in the series, and I imagine he continually relied on his 3 because he thought it was the best source of attack. And despite Harden being among the most craft foul drawers we have ever seen, LBJ actually had a greater FT attempt rate than him against the Warriors (15.2% vs. 12.3%), further hinting at LBJ's ability to put pressure and be a threat to finish at the rim.

Once the Rockets get past the Warriors, I suppose the Celtics would be their matchup? That would be my guess, and I think the Rockets would likely win. I consider the 2018 Cavs to have a weaker roster than the 2018 Rockets, yet the Cavs were able to squeak by the Celtics in 7.

The 2018 Celtics, had a -4.7 rDRTG. Lebron in that series he averaged 32 pts per 75 possessions and 8 assists per 75 possessions on a rTS% of 7.9%. I imagine that if his production was similar, and nothing out of the ordinary happens, that the Rockets take that series. It is possible his 2nd in command CP3 doesn't get hurt in the Warriors series, or the Celtics series if it doesn't get drawn out too long, but nonetheless, I think the Rockets could best the Celtics without CP3. Winning against the Warriors without CP3 is dicier, but I do think the Rockets offense would see a notable uptick and I do believe the Rockets are designed to guard GSW well. Considering the margins between them was so small, I do think LBJ can make the difference even if he has to take a larger offensive load without Paul.

[Asianiac_24]

Warriors still win, but the Cavs probably don’t make it to the Finals

[RCM88x]

Houston probably goes on to win the title, granted, they probably beat GS in the majority of situations except for our reality where they went 0-27 and CP3 also got hurt the last two games.

Cavs have a very tough series against Indy, like they did irl, if they get past them they'd probably have a very tough series against Toronto too. Cavs only good or even decent shooting series was against Toronto that postseason, and it showed in the results.

You think Warriors were underdogs in that series?

Not necessarily but they played pretty terrible for their standards and Houston may have had the edge that season in that matchup. I definitely think the way the series turned out was unlucky for Houston.

[NBA4Lyfe]

are you talking about the 2018 version of harden, the cavs would be in the ecf

[Homer38]

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[PistolPeteJR]

The Cavs get swept in the first round with Harden putting up his usual embarrassing performances, if they even make the playoffs at all.

The Rockets still lose to the Warriors because they were just that unfairly and uncompetitively stacked.

You would be so good on like a First Take style show

One of the best posters on here

I can’t tell if this is a compliment or an insult LOL.

[LesGrossman]

KD and his warriors were unstoppable. This is just noise...who cares when other guys dropped out of the contest. Noone in their right mind can believe any team would have stopped prime KD before injury plus Steph, Klay and Draymond. I remember everyone saying back then, the only team that can stop them are they themselves (beef between players).

[homecourtloss]

Read on Twitter

What’s absolutely wild about that run was that James scored 78.9% of his baskets unassisted, by far his highest mark in any playoffs. All the defensive attention was on him, and he pulled this off.