What's Harden's all time ceiling at this point?

[ardee]

Two scenarios, one where he just continues declining and it ends with a whimper, or the other where it turns out his hamstring was holding him back this year and he reverts to 2021 form next season and Philly makes a couple of deep runs (possibly winning a title?).

[dygaction]

Two scenarios, one where he just continues declining and it ends with a whimper, or the other where it turns out his hamstring was holding him back this year and he reverts to 2021 form next season and Philly makes a couple of deep runs (possibly winning a title?).

To me, 20ish the best and 30ish the lower side.

[GSP]

Maybe cracking top 35 is his best case scenario

[Dr Positivity]

If he ended up having Karl Malone's longevity I would rank him near the same, obviously that is unlikely though.

[ardee]

If he ended up having Karl Malone's longevity I would rank him near the same, obviously that is unlikely though.

I asked in another thread a while back, but could you share your top 20 as it stands?

[Dr Positivity]

If he ended up having Karl Malone's longevity I would rank him near the same, obviously that is unlikely though.

I asked in another thread a while back, but could you share your top 20 as it stands?

Rushed it but best attempt right now

1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Jordan
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Dirk
12. Garnett
13. Kobe
14. West
15. Dr J
16. Paul
17. Oscar
18. Karl Malone
19. Curry
20. Robinson

[Lou Fan]

If he ended up having Karl Malone's longevity I would rank him near the same, obviously that is unlikely though.

I asked in another thread a while back, but could you share your top 20 as it stands?

Rushed it but best attempt right now

1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Jordan
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Dirk
12. Garnett
13. Kobe
14. West
15. Dr J
16. Paul
17. Oscar
18. Karl Malone
19. Curry
20. Robinson

Are you a big longevity over peak guy?

[Dr Positivity]

I asked in another thread a while back, but could you share your top 20 as it stands?

Rushed it but best attempt right now

1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Jordan
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Dirk
12. Garnett
13. Kobe
14. West
15. Dr J
16. Paul
17. Oscar
18. Karl Malone
19. Curry
20. Robinson

Are you a big longevity over peak guy?

I value longevity a lot but try to find a balance

[Lou Fan]

Rushed it but best attempt right now

1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Jordan
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Dirk
12. Garnett
13. Kobe
14. West
15. Dr J
16. Paul
17. Oscar
18. Karl Malone
19. Curry
20. Robinson

Are you a big longevity over peak guy?

I value longevity a lot but try to find a balance

Just curious because that would explain most of our big differences as I have LBJ, Wilt, Dirk, Paul and Malone lower and Robinson, Curry, KG, Hakeem and Jordan higher.

[70sFan]

I think he still can make top 25, but it would be very hard for him to do. Don't see much of a case for top 20 though - I don't have Durant inside top 20 and he has much better career than Harden.

[Jaivl]

He's #28 for me I think, so top 25, maaaaybe. Top 20 is pretty much impossible with his current trajectory.

[Stan]

I think Harden's done as an elite player in the league, he's going to be 33 next year and doesn't keep himself in shape. As for his all time ceiling, his resume is impressive, but imo it'd be hard to rank him much higher than around 30. He's fringe top 25 at best.

[No-more-rings]

He's probably top 30 right now, with a chance to move into the top 25 if he can throw together a few more healthy all star level seasons. I agree Harden likely won't be a superstar going forward. I can't really envision a scenario where he cracks top 20, especially not with Giannis and Jokic on the move, and then eventually Luka too.

[dygaction]

I think he still can make top 25, but it would be very hard for him to do. Don't see much of a case for top 20 though - I don't have Durant inside top 20 and he has much better career than Harden.

Poor Durant. You value a lot of previous generation players but not current ones...

[70sFan]

I think he still can make top 25, but it would be very hard for him to do. Don't see much of a case for top 20 though - I don't have Durant inside top 20 and he has much better career than Harden.

Poor Durant. You value a lot of previous generation players but not current ones...

Yeah, that's why I have 4 current players in top 21. I have Durant 21st on my list by the way.

Maybe I am not super high on current players, because I value longevity? Players who are in their primes definitely are worse in that aspect.

[dygaction]

I think he still can make top 25, but it would be very hard for him to do. Don't see much of a case for top 20 though - I don't have Durant inside top 20 and he has much better career than Harden.

Poor Durant. You value a lot of previous generation players but not current ones...

Yeah, that's why I have 4 current players in top 21. I have Durant 21st on my list by the way.

Maybe I am not super high on current players, because I value longevity? Players who are in their primes definitely are worse in that aspect.

Durant has comparable longevity with Oscar now, and much more playoff games played, won, accolades, and achievements, right?

[70sFan]

Poor Durant. You value a lot of previous generation players but not current ones...

Yeah, that's why I have 4 current players in top 21. I have Durant 21st on my list by the way.

Maybe I am not super high on current players, because I value longevity? Players who are in their primes definitely are worse in that aspect.

Durant has comparable longevity with Oscar now, and much more playoff games played, won, accolades, and achievements, right?

No, Durant doesn't have more longevity. Durant missed two full seasons in his prime (2015 and 2020), one almost full season (2021) and he has two seasons when he missed significant time (2017 and 2022). Another thing is that I don't have Durant's peak that high.

Meanwhile Oscar's prime is 11 seasons with 1961-71. The only season you can count against him for missed games is 1968.

Oscar peaked considerably higher in my opinion and Durant has weaker longevity/durability. Still, the second part of top 20 is very close. With different criteria, you can have Durant higher than me.

[dygaction]

Yeah, that's why I have 4 current players in top 21. I have Durant 21st on my list by the way.

Maybe I am not super high on current players, because I value longevity? Players who are in their primes definitely are worse in that aspect.

Durant has comparable longevity with Oscar now, and much more playoff games played, won, accolades, and achievements, right?

No, Durant doesn't have more longevity. Durant missed two full seasons in his prime (2015 and 2020), one almost full season (2021) and he has two seasons when he missed significant time (2017 and 2022). Another thing is that I don't have Durant's peak that high.

Meanwhile Oscar's prime is 11 seasons with 1961-71. The only season you can count against him for missed games is 1968.

Oscar peaked considerably higher in my opinion and Durant has weaker longevity/durability. Still, the second part of top 20 is very close. With different criteria, you can have Durant higher than me.

Durant also has 11 prime seasons. Currently Oscar played 101 more regular season games, while Durant played 69 playoff games. A difference in 32 games over 10+ years can hardly be called longevity difference.

[70sFan]

Durant has comparable longevity with Oscar now, and much more playoff games played, won, accolades, and achievements, right?

No, Durant doesn't have more longevity. Durant missed two full seasons in his prime (2015 and 2020), one almost full season (2021) and he has two seasons when he missed significant time (2017 and 2022). Another thing is that I don't have Durant's peak that high.

Meanwhile Oscar's prime is 11 seasons with 1961-71. The only season you can count against him for missed games is 1968.

Oscar peaked considerably higher in my opinion and Durant has weaker longevity/durability. Still, the second part of top 20 is very close. With different criteria, you can have Durant higher than me.

Durant also has 11 prime seasons. Currently Oscar played 101 more regular season games, while Durant played 69 playoff games. A difference in 32 games over 10+ years can hardly be called longevity difference.

I already explained you my thoughts on this. You may disagree, but I don't find 2008-09 Durant games as relevant.

[dygaction]

No, Durant doesn't have more longevity. Durant missed two full seasons in his prime (2015 and 2020), one almost full season (2021) and he has two seasons when he missed significant time (2017 and 2022). Another thing is that I don't have Durant's peak that high.

Meanwhile Oscar's prime is 11 seasons with 1961-71. The only season you can count against him for missed games is 1968.

Oscar peaked considerably higher in my opinion and Durant has weaker longevity/durability. Still, the second part of top 20 is very close. With different criteria, you can have Durant higher than me.

Durant also has 11 prime seasons. Currently Oscar played 101 more regular season games, while Durant played 69 playoff games. A difference in 32 games over 10+ years can hardly be called longevity difference.

I already explained you my thoughts on this. You may disagree, but I don't find 2008-09 Durant games as relevant.

I treat all superstars' missing playoff seasons during their primes as little value.