Hot Take: Kobe Bryant 2008 > Lebron 2008

[mdonnelly1989]

While watching the Redeem Team on Netflix it reminded that during that ERA it was literally a pickem.


Lebron might have at that time been more athletically gifted with more physical attributes.

But Kobe had that "IT" factor at those times in those careers which IMO gave him the advantage in terms of who I would rather have on my team...

[Cavsfansince84]

It's not too much of a hot take tbh. The debate was still going on even after LeBron had his 2009 season because he hadn't won a title yet though I think most of them still arguing for Kobe at that point were dyed in wool Kobe or Laker fans. 2008 can still be argued either way sort of if you are really high on Kobe's intangibles.

[mdonnelly1989]

It's not too much of a hot take tbh. The debate was still going on even after LeBron had his 2009 season because he hadn't won a title yet though I think most of them still arguing for Kobe at that point were dyed in wool Kobe or Laker fans. 2008 can still be argued either way sort of if you are really high on Kobe's intangibles.

I was rooting for Lebron to dethrone Kobe in 2009, but still couldn't drive myself to take Lebron over Kobe yet.

I did think Lebron was closer to Kobe though the #3 Wade was too Lebron. From what I recall it went something like.

Kobe 98.5/100
Lebron 98/100
Wade 97

From what I recall, Dwight Howard, Carmelo, CP3 and Deron Williams were all next in line. I ranked them at the time and I know these were the top 3 for certain.

[Cavsfansince84]

I was rooting for Lebron to dethrone Kobe in 2009, but still couldn't drive myself to take Lebron over Kobe yet.

I did think Lebron was closer to Kobe though the #3 Wade was too Lebron. From what I recall it went something like.

Kobe 98.5/100
Lebron 98/100
Wade 97

From what I recall, Dwight Howard, Carmelo, CP3 and Deron Williams were all next in line. I ranked them at the time and I know these were the top 3 for certain.

Like I said, I think it was pretty close. It was probably close to 50/50 who was better that year while CP3 really came hard on the scene as well. I don't think it'd be much of a stretch to say he was the real mvp that year.

[falcolombardi]

Is not that hot of a take

[ceoofkobefans]

This isn’t a hot take Kobe was at least a tier above LeBron every year until 2009

[Chronz]

It's not too much of a hot take tbh. The debate was still going on even after LeBron had his 2009 season because he hadn't won a title yet though I think most of them still arguing for Kobe at that point were dyed in wool Kobe or Laker fans. 2008 can still be argued either way sort of if you are really high on Kobe's intangibles.

I was rooting for Lebron to dethrone Kobe in 2009, but still couldn't drive myself to take Lebron over Kobe yet.

I did think Lebron was closer to Kobe though the #3 Wade was too Lebron. From what I recall it went something like.

Kobe 98.5/100
Lebron 98/100
Wade 97

From what I recall, Dwight Howard, Carmelo, CP3 and Deron Williams were all next in line. I ranked them at the time and I know these were the top 3 for certain.

Melo and deron? What's the case

[Colbinii]

This isn’t a hot take Kobe was at least a tier above LeBron every year until 2009

Even in 2008?


You need to poster what happens if Cleveland trades for Gasol.

[70sFan]

It's not a hot take, Kobe ane James were reasonably close in 2008 and I actually prefer Kobe a little more.

[HeartBreakKid]

How is this a hot take...?

[Gooner]

Only on Real GM this would even be considered as a hot take.

[Gooner]

This isn’t a hot take Kobe was at least a tier above LeBron every year until 2009

Even in 2008?


You need to poster what happens if Cleveland trades for Gasol.

We'll never know. We saw LBJ lose with Wade and Bosh in 2011 and 2014 with Miami, and he was more experienced at the time, so nothing is guaranteed.

[NO-KG-AI]

I still had Kobe ahead like the entire year but it became pretty clear to me come playoff time that LeBron's physical dominance just made him a much harder presence to stop. Looking back I think it was LeBron, but in the moment it takes me longer for my opinion to take a full shift. LeBron was my 4th best player most of the year, but the playoffs made me feel like he was the best player in basketball after seeing everything Boston had to throw his way to get him off his game. I dunno, it just felt that way watching it live, even though I wasn't totally sold yet.

[70sFan]

Only on Real GM this would even be considered as a hot take.

Almost all responses in this thread said it's not a hot take, so you are wrong.

[70sFan]

This isn’t a hot take Kobe was at least a tier above LeBron every year until 2009

Even in 2008?


You need to poster what happens if Cleveland trades for Gasol.

We'll never know. We saw LBJ lose with Wade and Bosh in 2011 and 2014 with Miami, and he was more experienced at the time, so nothing is guaranteed.

We also saw Kobe losing with Gasol... in the discussed season.

[Gooner]

Even in 2008?


You need to poster what happens if Cleveland trades for Gasol.

We'll never know. We saw LBJ lose with Wade and Bosh in 2011 and 2014 with Miami, and he was more experienced at the time, so nothing is guaranteed.

We also saw Kobe losing with Gasol... in the discussed season.

OK. So best teams on paper don't always win.

[Homer38]

Only on Real GM this would even be considered as a hot take.

read the other post before in this thread....

[Homer38]

This isn’t a hot take Kobe was at least a tier above LeBron every year until 2009

Even in 2008?


You need to poster what happens if Cleveland trades for Gasol.

We'll never know. We saw LBJ lose with Wade and Bosh in 2011 and 2014 with Miami, and he was more experienced at the time, so nothing is guaranteed.

Same for Kobe with Shaq and Gasol....I don't know what is your point?

[Owly]

Counter to others I can see the case for this as a hot take.

Not that it was considered wild sporting coverage at the time, as many have alluded to it was a real discussion. It also depends on the specifics of the claim.

That said ... LeBron has as clear lead in the 3 Reference composites (gaps narrowing in the playoff, with Kobe slightly ahead in playoff PER). He has a solid advantage in on-off (widens in playoffs). He has a very slight advantage in a RAPM source (PI, so unclear what priors are doing versus a pure in-year comparison) https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2008-rapm.

So it rather depends ...if other reputable numbers are unanimous and if the statement is Kobe was better (i.e. definitive) and the case is resting solely on something like

But Kobe had that "IT" factor

and if that RAPM lead opens with NPI where it isn't just essentially a tie ... then it's pretty spicy because of the lack of evidence (wouldn't be inclined to say "media thought it close" without those media providing compelling and thorough comparisons).

If (reputable source) NPI falls pro-Kobe (or stays at a functional tie), if other (reputable) numbers aren't giving a clear James win or if the claim is weaker (i.e. "it is plausible that Kobe was better") each of these give more and better routes for the claim to be viable.

[MyUniBroDavis]

While watching the Redeem Team on Netflix it reminded that during that ERA it was literally a pickem.


Lebron might have at that time been more athletically gifted with more physical attributes.

But Kobe had that "IT" factor at those times in those careers which IMO gave him the advantage in terms of who I would rather have on my team...

This is not remotely a hot take lol