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I just randomly saw his stats on bball reference, and he's got a career -3.0BPM. While I know some will question that metric, it's really hard to be a good player with a -3 BPM. It's like that for Hassan Whiteside, where he has a +3 BPM, and everyone says he sucks.

Someone with -3BPM is at best an end of bench player, but year in and year out (except for this year), this dude gets rotation minutes.

dk1115 wrote:Someone with -3BPM is at best an end of bench player, but year in and year out (except for this year), this dude gets rotation minutes.

When he played on the Nuggets he was getting minutes out of necessity - the team was missing players and he was the next guy up. Plus a veteran, can defend and occasionally get hot from three. But definitely not someone you want to build on.

He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

I never thought he was good tbh. Even at Duke he underperformed, but people still gave him the benefit of the doubt.

dk1115 wrote:I just randomly saw his stats on bball reference, and he's got a career -3.0BPM. While I know some will question that metric, it's really hard to be a good player with a -3 BPM. It's like that for Hassan Whiteside, where he has a +3 BPM, and everyone says he sucks.

Someone with -3BPM is at best an end of bench player, but year in and year out (except for this year), this dude gets rotation minutes.

He was out of the league when the Nuggets signed him, the Knicks cut him 21 games into the season. The Nuggets had the choice Rivers or another Gleaguer after they traded Hampton and PJ Dozier and Murray went down.

Last year many were not thrilled with him being brought back, but it was not like we expected to see him as much as we did either. With Dozier and MPJ going down for the season, Campazzo being terrible, and Murray still out we didn't have much choice but to play him.

When the TWolves signed him and Forbes a TWolves fan came to the Nuggets board to gloat, and we laughed at him. They traded half of their rotation, and then spent their free agent money on slow mo, so they only had minimum contracts for guard depth. Connelly loves to keep signing guys he finds until it is obvious they are a detriment or they get a better contract.

Hornet Mania wrote:He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

Agree with everything you said but how was Doc able to pull this off with Austin while other NBA stats couldn’t?

Scottie Pippin Jr, Gary Payton II, Shaq’s Son, Michael Jordan’s son George Carl’s son Coby etc. All of their Dads had/have status and influence in the league but non of them went to a “Duke like” college and had hype, underperformed and got drafted in the 1st round. None of them got playing “they didn’t deserve” like Austin, and none of them got paid over their value (or haven’t yet).

How do you think Doc was able to do all this, but i can’t think of any other similar story to Austin’s where nepotism played such a huge role in his career?

Memory lane.

Any small player who plays several years in the NBA is really good. Lets not kid ourselves.

Hornet Mania wrote:He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

Statistics are not his friend... whether traditional stats or advanced stats. So it would leave me thinking he got minutes as a fluke, nepotism or out of necessity. But consider...

He's played with 8 teams over 10 NBA seasons. He's made the playoffs 7 times. And he's never averaged fewer than 21 mpg.

So he's doing something right by a lot of other people than just his dad. He came into last night's game with the Timberwolves averaging only 6 mpg. But, with Jaylen Nowell struggling mightily while playing a "me-first" game in a contract year (he's in the top 10 for shots per minute)... Rivers brings the kind of grittiness and unselfish play that the Wolves lack off the bench.

I'd expect him to get closer to 15-20 mpg for a pretty big chunk of the season... even if I'd rather watch somebody else.

He's extremely limited with a low ceiling, but I guess we give kudos to the guy for finding his niche in this league which is a far cry from the much ballyhooed recruit at Duke with the famous dad.

mastermixer wrote:

Hornet Mania wrote:He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

Agree with everything you said but how was Doc able to pull this off with Austin while other NBA stats couldn’t?

Scottie Pippin Jr, Gary Payton II, Shaq’s Son, Michael Jordan’s son George Carl’s son Coby etc. All of their Dads had/have status and influence in the league but non of them went to a “Duke like” college and had hype, underperformed and got drafted in the 1st round. None of them got playing “they didn’t deserve” like Austin, and none of them got paid over their value (or haven’t yet).

How do you think Doc was able to do all this, but i can’t think of any other similar story to Austin’s where nepotism played such a huge role in his career?

Doc is pretty high up on the NBA alumni ladder whatever reason, probably interpersonal skills. Everyone knows he's not a top 10 coach ever but he ends up on the list because he's beloved. I definitely think his cachet among basketball lifers helped Austin get a leg up.

But, very important to note, that wouldn't have gone so far if not for Austin Rivers actually being an NBA-caliber prospect and player. Not necessarily high-tier, but a guy who could legitimately carve out a little career in the pros. All the players you listed aside from Payton are way worse than Rivers all bias aside. In Payton's case his dad's word isn't nearly as respected as Doc's. The Glove ticked off a lot of people during his years and was also such a legendary boaster that any lobbying he did for his son would immediately be suspected as exaggerated.

Austin Rivers is/was good enough to be an NBA player even without his dad, but being Doc's kid helped him get a bit more juice out of it than he would have otherwise imo. Real ability plus a dash of 'it's not about what you know, it about who you know'.

He’s end of bench guy who can eat up minutes in regular season games during the grind

He was legit coming out of high school but the hype and his ego got to his head and you could see it at Duke and even after such an underwhelming year he still declared for the draft when most people including Coach K thought he wasnt ready and NO quickly found that out. And then came his time on the Clippers which was entirely cause of Doc and if not for that he probably would’ve been out of the league.

Rivers problem was the same thing that plagued Brandon Jennings, Johnny Flynn, Telfair and others in that you probably dont want to draft small guards who are not good shooters. You probably dont want to draft big guards or wings either but their length and athleticism may bail them out

Fringe NBA roster/deep reserve

But yeah I hate BPM and don't base my reasoning on that

Change his last name and I don’t think he makes it in the nba. He likely doesn’t get a 2nd contract.

mastermixer wrote:

Hornet Mania wrote:He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

Agree with everything you said but how was Doc able to pull this off with Austin while other NBA stats couldn’t?

Scottie Pippin Jr, Gary Payton II, Shaq’s Son, Michael Jordan’s son George Carl’s son Coby etc. All of their Dads had/have status and influence in the league but non of them went to a “Duke like” college and had hype, underperformed and got drafted in the 1st round. None of them got playing “they didn’t deserve” like Austin, and none of them got paid over their value (or haven’t yet).

How do you think Doc was able to do all this, but i can’t think of any other similar story to Austin’s where nepotism played such a huge role in his career?

Austin Rivers was the #2 overall recruit in the nation coming out of high school. He did just enough in college to keep NBA teams interested and maintained enough hype to sneak into the lottery.

You can call out his Clippers career (and contract) as pure nepotism, but Rivers got into the NBA based on the hype around his scoring potential. Tons of sons try to get to the league and barely get a look, as mastermixer mentioned. People legit thought Austin Rivers was going to be a good NBA scorer until he wasn't. After that we got the Doc nepotism to keep him in the league.

In general his career at this point is more about being a pretty disciplined and mistake free player that doesn't actively hurt your team if he has to fill in for a missing rotation player. He works hard on defense, doesn't turn the ball over, and usually shoots league average from 3. You can do a lot worse at the end of your bench is basically all there is to say for Rivers at this point. He doesn't hurt your team by being out there if you need him.

He is what he is. He’s an end of the rotation guard who can play solid high energy defense. You’re not in the league for 10 years and playing legit minutes in the playoffs for the last 7 straight years just because of his last name. Again he plays high energy defense and in the playoffs he has a career 36% from 3. That’s why he gets minutes. Coaches like vets off the bench that they know they can count on to play hard on defense and can hit enough timely shots where defenses can’t just forget he’s out there.

Nepotism? Maybe but as Duke said you don’t stay in the league because of nepotism. It’s not like Doc Rivers is the Wizard of Oz. I honestly feel bad for him

Good defense, can play either guard position. Early in his career he's been fine, his second contract was legitimate. Players do fall off sometimes.

The Rebel wrote:

dk1115 wrote:I just randomly saw his stats on bball reference, and he's got a career -3.0BPM. While I know some will question that metric, it's really hard to be a good player with a -3 BPM. It's like that for Hassan Whiteside, where he has a +3 BPM, and everyone says he sucks.

Someone with -3BPM is at best an end of bench player, but year in and year out (except for this year), this dude gets rotation minutes.

He was out of the league when the Nuggets signed him, the Knicks cut him 21 games into the season. The Nuggets had the choice Rivers or another Gleaguer after they traded Hampton and PJ Dozier and Murray went down.

Last year many were not thrilled with him being brought back, but it was not like we expected to see him as much as we did either. With Dozier and MPJ going down for the season, Campazzo being terrible, and Murray still out we didn't have much choice but to play him.

When the TWolves signed him and Forbes a TWolves fan came to the Nuggets board to gloat, and we laughed at him. They traded half of their rotation, and then spent their free agent money on slow mo, so they only had minimum contracts for guard depth. Connelly loves to keep signing guys he finds until it is obvious they are a detriment or they get a better contract.

The Knicks didn’t cut him, they traded him to OKC, and he got bought out, then he signed with Denver.


He’s been a pretty good role player for decent teams. Right now he’s on the downside of his career.

mastermixer wrote:

Hornet Mania wrote:He's a fringe NBA player on merit, the type who could get minutes on a depleted squad as we've seen in the past.

The initial hype, recruitment to Duke, being picked in the 1st round and especially the big contract were all because of his dad's influence though.

I think he could/would have made the association without being the son of Doc Rivers, but it would have been a tougher road and he'd never have a thread on RealGM.

Agree with everything you said but how was Doc able to pull this off with Austin while other NBA stats couldn’t?

Scottie Pippin Jr, Gary Payton II, Shaq’s Son, Michael Jordan’s son George Carl’s son Coby etc. All of their Dads had/have status and influence in the league but non of them went to a “Duke like” college and had hype, underperformed and got drafted in the 1st round. None of them got playing “they didn’t deserve” like Austin, and none of them got paid over their value (or haven’t yet).

How do you think Doc was able to do all this, but i can’t think of any other similar story to Austin’s where nepotism played such a huge role in his career?

Austin is arguably the best of that group (GPII might have surpassed him) and as far as I can remember Doc is the only one of those fathers with the actual ability to hand out a contract to to his son. His influence was tangible.