Where would Peak Charles Barkley rank today?

[Matt15]

Title

[Cavsfansince84]

Keep in mind that Charles finished ahead of true prime MJ twice in mvp voting. I think he's easily top 5 now.

[No-more-rings]

I think he adapts worse than Dirk, and people talk about Dirk’s defense..Barkley would be a disaster at the PF position. He’s top 10, but top 5 seems unlikely.

[CharityStripe34]

If he committed to being in good shape and trying hard on defense, he could possibly be Top 5 for a few seasons but I'd put him comfortably Top 10.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think he adapts worse than Dirk, and people talk about Dirk’s defense..Barkley would be a disaster at the PF position. He’s top 10, but top 5 seems unlikely.

Part of this is its hard to say where to rank Steph, KD, LeBron and Kawhi given how many games they are missing. I personally am going to downgrade someone quite a bit when they miss a lot of games.

[rk2023]

Top 10. With more sophisticated help I wonder how his finishing is altered (though I can play devils’ advocate and see more space in general help him). Barkley not having a great three point shot to say the least does raise an eyebrow considering he’d likely play the four - and it’s not like he’s compensating for this on the defensive end where most of my concerns lie.

Unsure if I could surely see him better on a / poss. basis or full strength than Jokic, Giannis, Curry, Luka, Durant, Embiid, James.

[rim213221]

He’s far worse than Giannis, Jokic and Doncic. Likely worse than Embiid and Curry as well. He’d probably be around Durant’s level at #6 or #7.

[Colbinii]

I would have Barkley quite low on the Food Chain. I don't see him capable of winning as the best player on a Championship Team [not that he did in the 1990s but he was capable]. I think anywhere from low-end of the Top 10 to Top 20 is my range for him.

[trelos6]

Basically Zion, but healthy. So prob 2nd team all NBA.

Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, KD, Lebron, Curry, Dame are all better.

[AussieBuck]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

[OhayoKD]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

maybe on offense. But zion has all the tools(and has already started arcing) towards being impactful defensively while barkley was at beast a nuetral(and in today's league a definitive negative) at a position you want strong positives

[Dutchball97]

I'm a lot higher on peak Barkley than most it seems. I mean Zion is a logical comparison but Barkley's TS add is just on a whole other level. I don't think people realize how insane it is Barkley was a more efficient scorer in the 80s/90s than someone like Zion is in the current league. With the spacing of today Barkley would be a bigger offensive force than Giannis is and for how much flack Barkley gets for his 3-point shooting I don't see how he has a significant disadvantage to guys like Giannis and Zion there and that's without considering Barkley growing up in a time where people his size just didn't really shoot 3s in the first place.

Especially for some guys mentioned here like Luka and Dame I have to ask are you guys 100% confident they're better offensive players than Barkley? Because they're surely not making up any difference on the defensive side. I'd understand the argument that since those guys are PGs and Barkley is a PF that you'd expect more defense from someone in Barkley's position but I'm not sure if this flies with me as in pretty much every single other comparison we see here there is no consideration for how good someone is at defense for their position and they're judged hollisticly instead and if we're keeping that consistency Barkley is a better defender than both Luka and Dame by a good margin.

I'm confident in having Giannis and Jokic ahead of Barkley. Embiid's been pretty healthy too this year so I'm leaning towards taking him ahead too but other than that I'm not confident enough in the likes of Tatum and Luka yet, while guys like Curry, KD, Bron, Kawhi, AD have all just missed too much time here. So I voted top 5.

[AussieBuck]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

maybe on offense. But zion has all the tools(and has already started arcing) towards being impactful defensively while barkley was at beast a nuetral(and in today's league a definitive negative) at a position you want strong positives

I had Zion being different shaped Giannis but the dude just hasn't been in shape or interested or whatever in being the defender he looked he could have been.

[70sFan]

I think people would say the same thing about Zion had he played in the 1990s. A lot of posters would say that Zion lack of shooting and unique, but limited offense game isn't enough to make him elite player. I can also see a lot of people questioning his defense in this scenario.

Barkley was much more refined offensive player than this verison of Zion. I am confident that he would be among the very best offensive players in the league. Not on Jokic level, but clearly ahead someone like Giannis for example.

Defense is a huge concern though. To be honest, he wouldn't be a big on offense, he would just guard the weakest and least involved player and his team would hope that the opponents wouldn't be able to target him consistently. It would be still a problem, but I don't see this as Jokic situation - Barkley could coexiet with another bigman just fine. Keep in mind that Jokic is likely a better defender than Barkley.

Overall, it depends on how much leaky his defense would be. Anything from top 5 to top 15 is possible, although if we also take missed games into account (which we should), then I don't think we can find 10 players with better season than peak Barkley.

[OhayoKD]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

maybe on offense. But zion has all the tools(and has already started arcing) towards being impactful defensively while barkley was at beast a nuetral(and in today's league a definitive negative) at a position you want strong positives

I had Zion being different shaped Giannis but the dude just hasn't been in shape or interested or whatever in being the defender he looked he could have been.

I feel like he took a jump this year, but injury concerns are fair. Though if you're looking at things way is Zion top 10?

[70sFan]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

maybe on offense. But zion has all the tools(and has already started arcing) towards being impactful defensively while barkley was at beast a nuetral(and in today's league a definitive negative) at a position you want strong positives

Barkley also had many tools necessary to be good defender, yet he never developed into a good defender.

Also, Zion is much more limited than Barkley on offense right now.

[OhayoKD]

I'm a lot higher on peak Barkley than most it seems. I mean Zion is a logical comparison but Barkley's TS add is just on a whole other level. I don't think people realize how insane it is Barkley was a more efficient scorer in the 80s/90s than someone like Zion is in the current league.

Isn't TS Add relative to the league average? Spacing gap is already baked in.

And uh. Yeah, Luka should be better. Passing and ball-handling is a thing and creative impact for merely "good" passers is lower now.

[AussieBuck]

maybe on offense. But zion has all the tools(and has already started arcing) towards being impactful defensively while barkley was at beast a nuetral(and in today's league a definitive negative) at a position you want strong positives

I had Zion being different shaped Giannis but the dude just hasn't been in shape or interested or whatever in being the defender he looked he could have been.

I feel like he took a jump this year, but injury concerns are fair. Though if you're looking at things way is Zion top 10?

Given a good run he should be top 10 even even in a league as strong as it is now. Really hope he puts it all together before his body falls apart.

[Dutchball97]

I'm a lot higher on peak Barkley than most it seems. I mean Zion is a logical comparison but Barkley's TS add is just on a whole other level. I don't think people realize how insane it is Barkley was a more efficient scorer in the 80s/90s than someone like Zion is in the current league.

Isn't TS Add relative to the league average? Spacing gap is already baked in.

And uh. Yeah, Luka should be better. Passing and ball-handling is a thing and creative impact for merely "good" passers is lower now.

Yeah it's league relative but Barkley stands out at the very top of his era. I can't seem to find an easily accesible leaderboard for it but just going through some of the most efficient high volume scorers of the era you can see Barkley well ahead of guys like Jordan, Robinson, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller. On the other hand Zion isn't anywhere near the top nowadays in TS add. What Barkley was in the late 80s/early 90s, guys like Curry and KD are now in terms of a combination of efficiency and volume. While I don't think Barkley will translate so well he'll outpace Curry and KD, I don't think it's an accurate projection that just about every high profile offensive star in the league would be more valuable than Barkley due to the type of skillset he brings not being seen as the most ideal to build around.

I'm trying to look at this comparison not as a GM but more broadly as how "good" these players would be. While I agree with the comparison of Zion to Barkley in terms of playstyle, I don't think Zion has reached particularly close to Barkley's peak level so projecting Barkley at or below Zion's level doesn't make too much sense to me.

The comparison to Luka is another interesting one to me. While yes, Luka could very well be more valuable due to his playmaking it's not as clear to me. In terms of TS add Luka looks pretty bad for an offensive star and his +- keeps being on the low end year after year as well. While he is clearly a good playmaker, he is also quiet turnover prone so I have my reservations whether Luka really has as much "impact" as his reputation paints him as having. Tbh I'm not seeing too much indicating Luka is better on offense than peak Barkley and like I said previously Luka is a better defender by position but worse in general despite actually being slightly taller than Barkley.

[Colbinii]

Zion with more rebounding seems near enough.

Zion has better handles and is a better driver due to a strength advantage. He is also more athletic.

Barkley was great in his era, but I question how he would actually translate into the Modern NBA with his shortcomings as a player and the amount of quick-decision making asked about offensive players in the current NBA.